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Our Lady of Guadalupe - A Mother for us all
Southern Fried Catholicism ^ | 12/12/2011 | Brad Noel

Posted on 12/12/2011 9:36:01 AM PST by DogwoodSouth

On November 8, 1519 - only two years after the start of the Protestant Reformation in Western Europe - a Spanish conquistador named Hernando Cortes, led his army into the sprawling city of Tenochtitlan, the capital of the Aztec empire in modern-day Mexico. This was the symbolic start of the conquest of the Meso-America by the Spanish.

The Spanish conquistadors were seeking fame and fortune. They were accompanied, however, by Catholic missionaries who were seeking to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ to the indigeonous peoples of Meso-America. For more than a decade, the labor of the Catholic missionaries among the indigenous people was undertaken with few results. The vast majority of Meso-American Indians clung to the gods and customs of their old religion, spurning the efforts of the Catholic missionaries.

That all changed in 1531...

(Excerpt) Read more at ...

TOPICS: Catholic; Evangelical Christian; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: catholic; catholicism; guadalupe; mary; ourlady

1 posted on 12/12/2011 9:36:06 AM PST by DogwoodSouth
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To: DogwoodSouth

“The vast majority of Meso-American Indians clung to the gods and customs of their old religion,”

This included rituals of human sacrifice that had gone on for centuries. When Cortes arrived in Tenochtitlan, he found an estimated 100,000 human skulls.

Cortes, aided by our Lady, was truly a hero.

2 posted on 12/12/2011 9:42:29 AM PST by Rennes Templar (God isn't into pain.)
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To: Rennes Templar

Cortez was baptized in the Pila of Our Lady of Guadalupe, he himself brought this icon/image to Mexico. I’ve been to Medellin, to the place where he was baptized, it was a Spainish Virgen, Mexicans all think it was MEXICAN lady. How far from the truth! Juan Diego is actually a thumbnail of Hernan Cortez, Chichameca Indians don’t have goatees...!!!

3 posted on 12/12/2011 9:45:26 AM PST by rovenstinez
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To: Rennes Templar

Wiping out he Aztecs was one of the greatest services Spain ever performed. It is very analagous to Americans rolling into Nazi death camps.

4 posted on 12/12/2011 9:49:42 AM PST by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office)
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To: DogwoodSouth
The colors, imagery, stars, almost everything in the picture of Our Lady of Guadalupe on St. Juan Diego's tilma were wordless evangelization messages to the Aztecs. They recognized it all and so many were converted. I'm thinking the explanation of the colors, etc is in one of these posts.

Our Lady of Guadalupe - A Mother for us all
A WOMAN AND A DRAGON (Catholic Caucus)
The History of Our Lady of Guadalupe [Catholic Caucus]
Guadalupe: A Living Image (EWTN - Sunday, Sep. 26 at 10 pm) [Catholic Caucus]

Remembering Our Lady of Guadalupe
Catholic Caucus: Our Lady of Guadalupe: She Who Smashes the Serpent
Infamous Hollywood Screenwriter to Pen Film on Our Lady of Guadalupe - Patroness of the Unborn
"Basic Instinct" scribe Eszterhas eyes virgin
Our Lady of Guadalupe ‘completely beyond' scientific explanation, says researcher
Knights of Columbus Congress, Festival for Our Lady of Guadalupe (Catholic Caucus)
The (Miraculous) Image of Our Lady of Guadalupe [Catholic Caucus]
Remembering Our Lady of Guadalupe [Catholic Caucus]
Our Lady of Guadalupe Feast: December 12 [Repost]
Brief History of the Apparitions of Our Lady of Guadalupe [Catholic Caucus]

The History of Our Lady of Guadalupe [Ecumenical]
2 Questions related to Faith & Apologetics. A Feast day & Our Lady of Guadalupe [Catholic Caucus]
The Image of Our Lady of Guadalupe
Our Lady of Guadalupe called 'Mother Without Borders' in Los Angeles (Catholic Caucus)
Hernándo Cortés and Our Lady
Our Lady of Guadalupe, Patroness of the Church Militant (Catholic Caucus)
Scientists certify Our Lady of Guadalupe tilma
The Story of Guadalupe: Hope for Our Violent World

Our Lady of Guadalupe: Protectress of the Unborn
Was Our Lady of Guadalupe Wrong?
A Novena to Our Lady of Guadalupe
Relic From Guadalupe Tilma to Tour U.S.
The Amazing Truth of Our Lady of Guadalupe
Our Lady Of Guadalupe
Celebrating 470 years of an ongoing miracle, the apparition of Our Lady of Guadalupe 1531
Science Stunned by Virgin of Guadalupe´s Eyes

5 posted on 12/12/2011 10:00:06 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: rovenstinez

Yes, Cortes was born in Medellin, in the region of Extremadura, Spain. And in that region, there is a statue known as “Our Lady of Guadalupe”, but the image on the tilma in Mexico is different and distinct.

The image in Mexico is two-dimensional, on local fabric (cactus fiber), while the image in Spain is a three-dimensional statue of Our Lady holding the Christ Child. The name “Guadalupe” is applied to both images.

To be fair, there are no known contemporary depictions of Juan Diego, so every picture of him is a purely speculative guess. I have, however, long wondered why he is depicted with facial hair seeing as how native Indians are not known for their ability to grow a beard.

6 posted on 12/12/2011 10:01:41 AM PST by DogwoodSouth
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To: DogwoodSouth

Extreme caution should be taken in embracing the Virgin of Guadalupe, as there is a deep cultural association between her and the pagan Aztec goddess known as “Tonantzin.”

This, by itself, would be less problematic, except that there is now a revival of sorts of a much more dangerous neo-Aztec cult, very strongly opposed by the Catholic church that recognizes its danger. The Santa Muerte cult.

“Saint Death”, as it is called, is clearly based on the Aztec goddess “Mictecacihuatl”, their ‘queen of the underworld’.

It is represented by a skeleton wearing ornate Catholic garments. And her cult is supported by the drug cartels. Estimates are as high as 2 million at least casual followers.

And the only thing keeping them from turning into a murder cult like the Thughee of India is the lack of a charismatic leader. The British had to exterminate the Thughee *twice* after they had launched campaigns of indiscriminate slaughter.

Ironically, Mictecacihuatl was far from being the Aztec’s bloodiest diety, as well, so it would be a profoundly bad idea to allow them to enlarge their panoply of gods beyond those they are already embracing.

The Virgin of Guadalupe can be a very virtuous Christian religious icon. But only so long as she is a purely Christian figure.

7 posted on 12/12/2011 10:16:00 AM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: DogwoodSouth
Pray for us Maria Coatlaxopeuh.

Crush the skull of the serpent!

8 posted on 12/12/2011 10:56:53 AM PST by agere_contra ("Debt is the foundation of destruction" : Sarah Palin.)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy
It doesn't matter which idol you choose to worship, they are all bad.

Exodus 20:4-5 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth:
Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me;

9 posted on 12/12/2011 2:17:02 PM PST by ScubieNuc
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To: ScubieNuc; yefragetuwrabrumuy
"It doesn't matter which idol you choose to worship, they are all bad."

True enough, my friend.

But if

then it's not bad at all.

Here's one I like:

10 posted on 12/12/2011 2:55:13 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("Behold, all generations shall call me blessed.")
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To: Mrs. Don-o
I get your meaning. Anything and anyone can become an idol in our heart. However, I would doubt that you will see people physically bowing before that sign. But you can find the following in many places:

11 posted on 12/12/2011 3:36:06 PM PST by ScubieNuc
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To: ScubieNuc
I appreciare your comment. However, it would be a mistake to assume that "bowing" = "worshipping."

For instance, at a military funeral an honor guard presents the American flag to the next of kin by kneeling in front of the recipient, and I think there's a slight bow of the head as well.

My point here is that many cultures and nationalities (including Americans) have customs, gestures and postures which show reverence, honor, dignified regard and so forth, without conveying adoration as to the Supreme Being.

Some people kneel at a Christmas creche, some bow at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier. Some get on one knee for a proposal of marriage. Some kneel at the Ground Zero memorial--- and not only religious believers. You get my point. It's a "language of gesture" that doesn't mean the adoration which is is proper for God alone.

12 posted on 12/12/2011 3:55:14 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("Behold, all generations shall call me blessed.")
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To: DesertRhino
Wiping out he Aztecs was one of the greatest services Spain ever performed. It is very analagous to Americans rolling into Nazi death camps.

Congratulations, this is one of the most rock-stupid and horrifying posts I've ever read on the internet. With "conservatives" like you, no wonder the democrats keep getting elected.

13 posted on 12/12/2011 4:30:31 PM PST by Talisker (History will show the Illuminati won the ultimate Darwin Award.)
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To: Rennes Templar
Cortes, aided by our Lady, was truly a hero.

Cortes was a monster from the pit of hell, a mass murderer, and the absolute shame of the Catholic Church.

I hope that was clear.

14 posted on 12/12/2011 4:33:15 PM PST by Talisker (History will show the Illuminati won the ultimate Darwin Award.)
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To: Talisker; DesertRhino

Human Sacrifice
Human sacrifice was practised to some extent by many peoples in Mesoamerica (and for that matter, around the world) for many centuries. But it was Aztec sacrifice that really took the ritual to new heights. How many people were sacrificed by the Aztecs? We don’t know how many were sacrificed over the years - it’s possible that some accounts are exaggerated - but it was probably thousands each year - tens of thousands or more all together. Some estimates claim 20,000 a year.

The Aztecs had 18 months in one cycle, and for each of the 18 months there was ritual sacrifice. The victim would be painted as a part of the ritual, they would be placed on a slab where their heart would be removed and held up to the sun. The body would be thrown down the stairs of the temple/pyramid.

The body would be disposed of in various ways, such as feeding animals at the zoo or putting on display (the heads). There are some accounts of cannibalism, but it’s uncertain if this was practised to any great extent.

There were other ways that humans would be sacrificed - shot with arrows, drowned, burned, or otherwise mutilated. Killing in a fight (like the Roman gladiators) also took place.

Both the empire’s own people, and their enemies were sacrificed. The warriors were often involved in a special ritual war called a xochiyaoyotl (or flower war/flowery war). The object was not to gain territory or kill the enemy, but to capture them as food for the gods. Both sides of the battle were required to fight, and they usually were willing participants. The people would be captured instead of killed, and then sacrificed.

Aztec Sacrifices

Aztec sacrifices were an important aspect of the Aztec religion. At the root of these Aztec rituals was the belief that the gods needed to be nourished by human beings. This was accomplished through human blood. A part of the Aztec religion, therefore, was to participate in bloodletting, which is intentionally harming and drawing blood from the body. Those who were higher in status within the Aztec religion were expected to give the most blood during these Aztec rituals.

The Aztec gods and goddesses also required the living hearts of humans for nourishment. All hearts were good, but the bravest captives were considered to be particularly nourishing to the Aztec gods. As a result, widespread warring took place as the Aztec people sought to bring captives back to the Aztec temples for sacrifice.

Sometimes, those practicing the Aztec religion sacrificed just one person. At other times, hundreds or even thousands of captives were sacrificed at a time. Each Aztec sacrifice, however, took place the same way. The captive or captives were taken to a pyramid or temple and placed on an altar. The Aztec priest then made an incision in the ribcage of the captive and removed the living heart. The heart was then burned and the corpse was pushed down the steps of the Aztec pyramid or temple. If the captive was particularly noble or brave, however, he was carried down instead.

The Aztecs: Human Sacrifice

After Columbus found the New World, hordes of Spanish colonists settled in the West Indies. Many of the colonists were ex-soldiers no longer able to find work in Europe. They eagerly left to stake a claim in the Indies for Spain. Bored by the day to day administrations of the colonies, they became restless. They traveled westwards again, toward the new frontier. The age the Spanish Conquistadores began.

The Aztecs were their most imposing foes. The Aztecs considered themselves chosen people of the gods. Their chief god was Huitzilpochtli (the Hummingbird Wizard) who represented the sun, the warrior, and fought the Aztecs’ battles with the other gods to ensure the Aztecs’ survival.

Huitzilpochtli needed food to nourish him so he could continue to fight. His preferred food was human blood.

In order to keep feeding Huitzilpochtli, the Aztecs warred continuously. Their army was of the utmost importance, and they had several different factions of warriors. The Knights of the Eagle and the Knights of the Jaguar were two such bodies of troops. These were the men who went forth to capture suitable human sacrifices.

Sacrifices were taken to the tops of the Aztec pyramids and laid upon a flat stone. There, their chests were cut open and their hearts were ripped out. The bodies were then thrown down the steps of the pyramid. The Spaniards who witnessed this violence were horrified.

More than blood lust prompted these ritual sacrifices. The Aztecs believed in a concept of “tonalli” or the “animating spirit”. Tonalli was believed to be carried in the blood, and since blood flowed from the heart, this was the organ that was offered up to sate the god’s appetite. It was believed that without these sacrifices, all motion would stop including the movement of the sun. The Aztecs’ human sacrifices were intended to keep the sun from halting its orbit.

Also, the Aztecs did not have livestock. They practiced cannibalism on their captives. After the sacrifices tumbled down the stairs, the Aztec priests removed the limbs and cooked them. The hands and thighs were delicacies.

Estimates suggest 20,000 people a year were sacrificed by the Aztec royalty. This royalty was made up of a priest class. The priests directly served the Chosen Speaker. In Tenochtitlan, the Aztec capital city (with between 150,000 and 300,00 inhabitants it was one of the biggest metropolises in the world at the time) there were five thousand priests.

Lots more where that came from.

15 posted on 12/12/2011 4:55:38 PM PST by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell.)
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To: DogwoodSouth; Chainmail; StrongandPround; lilyramone; crusadersoldier; Ellzeena; Anvilhead; ...

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.

16 posted on 12/13/2011 8:57:34 AM PST by narses
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