Posted on 12/15/2011 10:14:12 AM PST by Cronos
Sadly, many in our brotherhood would answer “yes” to this question. Denominations have for years taught that it does not matter what church you attend, as long as a person is sincere and honest. Many in the Lord’s church have swallowed this idea. They cry long and hard that there are sincere, devout Christians in any given denomination. It is no wonder, then, that many congregations of the Lord’s church have joined hands with denominational churches to promote or to participate in any number of things. Of course, they consider their actions to have Biblical backing. They proclaim the words of Jesus in defense of their endeavors: "other sheep I have, which are not of this fold” (Jn.10:16). To them, “this fold” represents the Church of Christ (denominational concept of the Lord’s church), and the other sheep outside of “this fold” represent God’s children scattered among the denominations. Does this interpretation have credence? Is it the case that there are devout Christians in denominations? The answer is no to both questions.
The passage under consideration does not support the idea that there are devout Christians in denominations. To the dismay of those who would espouse this soul-damning doctrine, this passage destroys their convoluted thinking. There is no hint of such a doctrine taught in this passage, nor is it even possible that this passage could teach such. The New Testament knows nothing of denominationalism. In the first century, there was one church and only one church (Eph.4:4). Although the seeds of denominationalism were being planted during the first century, these seeds did not bloom until after the close of New Testament times. To claim that John 10:16 deals in any respect with denominationalism is to force a 21st century interpretation on a 1st century passage.
The latter half of the verse under consideration inflicts even more damage upon the idea that there are devout Christians in denominations. Christ proclaimed that the “other sheep” would be brought into “one fold” under the care of “one shepherd.” This one fold is the one church! And this one church is under the care of the Great Shepherd Jesus Christ! Those in denominations follow the voice of Luther, or Calvin, or Wesley, or Pope John Paul II, but they are not following the voice of the Great Shepherd! The other sheep to whom Jesus was referring were the Gentiles. Though there were some Gentiles who sought God, and anticipated the coming of the Messiah, the Jews and Gentiles remained separated. Through Christ’s death, he would bring both Jew and Gentile together in one body, one fold (Eph.2:14)! The Lord’s church today is a fulfillment of John 10:16—both Jew and Gentile in one body under the care of the Great Shepherd.
Are there devout Christians in denominations? No. Are there children of God in denominations? Yes, but only because they chose to leave the safety of the one fold, the Lord’s church, to follow the doctrines and commandments of men. Those who have done so must repent and return to the church of our Lord before it is eternally too late! PM
It’s ma’am.
And I never said they appealed to extra scripture, however they do have their basis in Campbell’s teachings and his interpretation of the Bible.
I have had several CoC members in my research tell me about the apostasy.
A true straw man argument.
Each of these groups (Protestants, Mormons, JWs, etc.) that claims the others have "fallen away" from Christ's original teachings believes that theirs is the only true way. They do not believe their's is the only true denomination, they believe that Christ set up one true Church, and their's is it.
Just curious. What makes you think I’m Catholic?
I guess this thread is a sign that we have run out of steam for the “Newt Gingrich sucks” threads? It’s about time.
Each of these groups (Protestants, Mormons, JWs, etc.) that claims the others have “fallen away” from Christ’s original teachings believes that theirs is the only true way. They do not believe their’s is the only true denomination, they believe that Christ set up one true Church, and their’s is it.
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You obviously do not know much about Protestantism. First of all, Mormons and JW’s are not protestants (by their own admission) - also by the Catholic church’s admission and all protestant churches admission.
Secondly, no protestant church believes it is the ‘only true church’. Sorry. Early protestant leaders saw the Catholic church having fallen away from its earlier teachings, but not that a restoration was needed (as if it never held truth) but that a reformation (a return to the church of Late Antiquity) was required. Most of this had to do with serious ecclesiastical issues like simony, indulgences, and political conflicts.
However, I am seeing that you don’t really want to discuss this, your general hatred for protestants (which even the Catholic church doesn’t have) is showing.
Your comments give you away.
interesting take from the CoC -- does anyone know about this religious group?
Issues, Etc. yesterday interviewed someone on that group. (I'm not seeing it in the list yet, or I'd link directly.)
I seem to recall someone calling that area "burned over district" - I think from the fact of previous religious awakenings. Have you seen reference to that?
With all due respect, you don’t know what you are talking about. I was (past tense) a member of the churches of Christ for over 30 years. I have a BA degree in Bible from one of their universities. I was a pastor/elder for 9 years.
I had been a devout Christian for quite a long time before I had ever heard of Campbell. Or any other leaders of the Restoration movement. If you think for a minute that mainstream churches of Christ preach or teach Campbell, you are profoundly misinformed.
Which ‘church of Christ’ are you talking about? There are at least 13 different groups using that name.
I am referring to the one in this article (and the breakoffs of their group).
Are you really saying that CoC doesn’t believe what is posted here?
Just because they don’t talk about Campbell, doesn’t mean that they don’t base their teachings on his.
I agree. I am reminded of the time when Jesus said something to the effect those that are not against Me are with me.
And elsewhere the question is put using example of body partsi.e. the hand speaking to the foot. Given time I could compile a list of verses that seem to contradict the apparent message. I am not convinced that sects—or denominations are in and of themself either good or bad.I recall certain Catholics claiming non-Catholic Christians are almost saved.
I am somewhat familiar with the church of Christ— and Alexander Campbell-but find the comment there is much apostasy in that sect somewhat offensive for I find apostacy a subjective and wide spread affect -leven that appears in every denomination/congregation known to man.
didn’t Jesus tell one seeking Him “why do you call Me good?
There is none good save the Father.I cannot compare the church of Christ in doctrine to the Mormon church.I just cannot.
“burned over district” - yeah, references are few outside of Mormonism but it does appear that there was an area in New England that had so many revivals that it cause confusion among the laity (mostly illiterate).
There is at least one book I know of on the topic, but I haven’t gotten a copy yet.
You are quite mistaken.
I have been accused of many thing in my time, but never of being Catholic.
The subject here is whether being in the wrong church or denomination will exclude you from heaven. This presupposes that it is the Believers 'choice' that matters.
As is typical of this thinking, man's 'choice' is revered and what God has done and is doing, is suppressed.
False Doctrines and the 'wolves in sheep's clothing' must be expelled. There is real Faith and good doctrine and there is the fake and the false.
Of 'One mind' must be the essentials In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity.
It is a good saying.
This isn’t the denomination, “Church of Christ”, as in no instruments in worship?
Church of Christ:
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Church%20of%20Christ/church_of_christ_heresies.htm
“Secondly, no protestant church believes it is the ‘only true church’.”
I wish that were true; however, many Texas Southern Baptists have been taught from the pulpit that if you’re not SB you’re going to hell. C of C’ers believe if you’re not C of C, you’re going to hell. Wisconsin Synod Lutherans believe if you’re not WSL, you’re going to hell.
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