Exploring: The Church Began with a Prophet [Mormon Merry Smithmas Day!]

Liahona Magazine (Official Magazine of the Mormon Church) ^ | December 1993 | Sherrie Johnson

[Colofornian]

The history of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints began in the Sacred Grove when fourteen-year-old Joseph Smith prayed to know which church was true. But Heavenly Father had been preparing Joseph Smith throughout his life for that marvelous First Vision—the most important message the world has received since the time of Jesus Christ. This preparation began on December 23, 1805, in Sharon, Vermont, when Joseph Smith, Jr., was born.

[SZonian]

You don’t have to click on the RF and you don’t have to click on the article if it is bothersome.

Use your free agency and be accountable for your own decisions, but don’t blame FR and JR for providing the forum where people discuss things others may find unpalatable.

[greyfoxx39]

Btw, isn't "intolerance" what "bigotry" means?

Actually, "mormonism" is what bigotry means...the mormon church elevated bigotry to its highest level ever when Joseph Smith founded his sect on the premise that all other creeds were wrong, and the leaders following him piled on with more and more bigotry against Christians.

52,000 mormon missionaries go out every day, and preach three minutes of hate....that's real bigotry!

{Knock...Knock}

{Door opens}....uninvited, two young men in white shirts and ties and nametags (of 52,000 similar young men worldwide) greet the Christian homeowner...

"We have come to tell you about the news that the Gospel of Jesus Christ has been restored after being taken from the earth because no one was worthy to follow Jesus' Apostles until Joseph Smith became a prophet....and to show you how you can spend eternity with your wife and family in the presence of God and Jesus Christ...if only you will join the mormon church and leave your Christian belief behind."

"Just read this book, pray about it and you will receive a message from the Holy Ghost that the only way to salvation is by being baptized and confirmed as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, after which if you obey the rules which govern what you drink, what you wear and how much tithing is required, you MAY be worthy to enter our temple and take part in arcane rituals that will bind God to recognize them and grant you exaltation".

THAT IS THREE MINUTES OF HATE!...MULTIPLIED 26,000 TIMES PER DAY.

[Scoutmaster]

the mormon church elevated bigotry to its highest level ever when Joseph Smith founded his sect on the premise that all other creeds were wrong

Hmm. In the 1832 and two 1835 versions of the First Vision, Smith doesn't say he was told that all other creeds were wrong. The 1838 and 1842 versions (the official version published in Times and Seasons and dated back to 1838) of the First Vision stated that two personages told Smith that all churches are corrupt.

Of course, the whole reliance upon The First Vision is an interesting thing, historically, because the LDS Church didn't rely upon The First Vision as an integral part of its teachings until the early 1880s. It was Joseph F. Smith, as President (Prophet) who made the 1842/1883 version of the First Vision part of the LDS Canon in 1880. When Gordon B. Hinckley said in 1998 that "[o]ur entire case as members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints rests on the validity of this glorious First Vision," he was talking about something that wasn't even a material part of the church's teachings for its first 50 years of its existence.

[Vendome]

These statements and more demonstrate the seperateness of Christianity and Mormonism.

The only reason they say "We are Christian" is an attempt to morph into something they are not and co-opt Christianity.

 

"What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world"
- Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr., Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 270

"...all the priests who adhere to the sectarian religions of the day with all their followers, without one exception, receive their portion with the devil and his angels."
- Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr. , The Elders Journal, v. 1, no. 4, p. 60

"With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world."
- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 8, p.

"Christians—those poor, miserable priests brother Brigham was speaking about—some of them are the biggest whoremasters there are on the earth, and at the same time preaching righteousness to the children of men. The poor devils, they could not get up here and preach an oral discourse, to save themselves from hell; they are preaching their fathers' sermons —preaching sermons that were written a hundred years before they were born. ...You may get a Methodist priest to pour water on you, or sprinkle it on you, and baptize you face foremost, or lay you down the other way, and whatever mode you please, and you will be damned with your priest.
- Apostle Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, v. 5, p. 89

"What! Are Christians ignorant? Yes, as ignorant of the things of God as the brute beast."
- Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, v. 13, p. 225

"Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the ‘whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent."
- Apostle Orson Pratt, The Seer, p. 255

"After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon."
- Apostle George Q. Cannon, Gospel Truth, p. 324

“Believers in the doctrines of modern Christendom will reap damnation to their souls.”
- Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, see pp. 45-46

"I was answered that I must join none of them (Christian Churches), for they were all wrong...that all their creeds were an abomination in His sight" (Joseph Smith History 1:19).

"...orthodox Christian views of God are Pagan rather than Christian." (Mormon Doctrine of Deity by B.H. Roberts, p.116)

"...the God whom the 'Christians' worship is a being of their own creation..." (Apostle Charles W. Penrose, JD 23:243)

"The Christian world, so called, are heathens as to their knowledge of the salvation of God." (Brigham Young, JD 8:171)

"What! Are Christians ignorant? Yes, as ignorant of the things of God as the brute best." (John Taylor, JD 13:225)

"What does the Christian world know about God? Nothing...Why so far as the things of God are concerned, they are the veriest fools; they know neither God nor the things of God." (John Taylor, JI) 13:225)

"Believers in the doctrines of modern Christendom will reap damnation to their souls (Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p.177)

"...brother Joseph B. Nobles once told a Methodist priest, after hearing him describe his god, that the god they worshiped was the "Mormon's" Devil-a being without a body, whereas our God has a body, parts and passions." (Brigham Young, JD 5:331)

"...the great apostate church as the anti-christ...This great antichrist...is the church of the devil." (Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine p.40)

"Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the "whore of Babylon" whom the lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness." (Pratt, The Seer, p.255)

 

“God is not at its head, making that church [i.e., Christianity] – following the appearance in it of Satan – no longer the church of God. To say that Satan sits in the place of God in Christianity after the time of the apostles is not to say that all that is in it is Satanic.”
- Kent P. Jackson, “Early Signs of Apostasy,” Ensign, December 1984, p. 9

1 Nephi 14:10 "Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of god, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth."

"Orthodox Christian views of God are pagan rather than Christian" (Mormon Doctrine of Deity, B. H. Roberts [General Authority], 116).

Brigham Young: “…and he that confesseth not that Jesus has come in the flesh and sent Joseph Smith with the fullness of the Gospel to this generation, is not of God, but is Antichrist.” (Journal of Discourses, Vol 9 pg 312).

Mormon Apostle Hyrum M. Smith,- “In fact, my brethren and sisters, if the falsity of a religion can be measured in any degree by the amount of trouble and turmoil and strife and bitterness and hatred that it has engendered in the hearts of men, if it can be judged by the number of wars it has carried on and the rivers of blood it has shed, the amount of misery and sorrow, it has caused, or the extremes of impurity, found among its adherents, then Christianity, that which is known as Christianity, is the falsest of all religions in the world… The trouble is, as God declared to Joseph the Prophet, mankind have gone astray. Their religions are an abomination in his sight, and their professors are corrupt because they have turned away from the truth and have turned unto fables.” (Conference Report, October 1916, p.43).

 

 

The plaque above is found in Temple Square with Joseph Smith a top it.

Do the Latter Day Saints corporately and collectively believe this and support that view point?  Of course they do.  Otherwise, if there is no resurrected church then there is no LDS.

But everyone outside their group is "Anti-Mormon"?  LOL  They are Anti-Christian and seek not only to undermine Christianity and their beliefs but outright work to subordinate one man to another, in that one must accept the Prophets words as sacrosanct and inviolable.

No man pays fealty to another as their superior because their so called god ordains it.

?

[Vendome]

You know, I kind of object to being called a whore.

The apostate thing doesn’t really bother me.

I also object to being called stupid by your church leaders.

I also object to being called ignorant by your church leaders.

We are also poor and miserable by definition of your church leaders.

There is a certain adolescence comparing others to and ignorant beast, who happen to be outside your religion.

Whore Master? LOL Now that one is rich. Personally, if you can’t sweet talk your way.... fuhget aboud it....

Pagans? check....

Heathens? check....

Gracer? Well, alrighty then...

“...the God whom the ‘Christians’ worship is a being of their own creation...” You have to admit that’s just a bit duplicitous and oh so rich....

[Vendome]

“Taliban Christians”????

NO one gave me a rag do to wear...

[Vendome]

I'm on a horse....

 

The plaque above is found in Temple Square with Joseph Smith a top it.

Do the Latter Day Saints corporately and collectively believe this and support that view point?  Of course they do.  Otherwise, if there is no resurrected church then there is no LDS.

But everyone outside their group is "Anti-Mormon"?  LOL  They are Anti-Christian and seek not only to undermine Christianity and their beliefs but outright work to subordinate one man to another, in that one must accept the Prophets words as sacrosanct and inviolable.

No man pays fealty to another as their superior because thier so called god ordains it.

[ejonesie22]

And the LDS Church’s continued denigration and misrepresention of MY savior and brother Jesus Christ makes me support exposing their falsehoods more and more.

So get used to it or enter the light of the true Christ and walk away from false prophets and wacky non Christian beliefs.

[greyfoxx39]

"all churches are corrupt." "all other creeds were wrong"....notice I stated that he founded his sect on the premise that all other creeds were wrong.

I don't see where your post invalidates my statement.

The same premise continues to this day with the "only true church" meme of mormons and illuminates the bigotry.

[Colofornian]

...devoted...

I'm glad you included this word at least in the def you provided.

"Bigot" is etymologically tied to "Beguines." It was used abusively in French for the Beguines, members of a Roman Catholic lay sisterhood, with the meaning of attaching "excessive devotion" to this sisterhood...(yeah, the devoted do get slapped around a bit).

So, “bigot” in its original usage was tied to perceived intolerance. (I don’t know if the Beguines were actually intolerant or not). The Beguines were probably at least perceived as practicing "spiritual one-upsmanship"--and others didn't like it--they felt looked down upon. Perhaps they felt scorned because such sisterhoods tended to isolate themselves more and because of that, the Beguines perhaps were perceived as being spiritually snooty ("we don't like how excessively devoted they are").

But to wind this back to what I said. "Bigot" is originally tied to "excessive devotion." I suppose it's possible that the Beguines were indeed "excessively devoted." (It's also just as possible that the other Catholics' perception was largely wrong...but once a reputation develops...). But let's just say they were excessively devoted. If that's the name-slinging you wish to engage in, Jwatz, I'll just take the high road and claim a historical context.

But if you want to insist on a contemporary usage of that term -- that "bigot" means "intolerant" -- then you need to answer this Q. Because aren't you showing religious intolerance toward us? On what grounds is your "intolerance" so "allowable" and therefore elitist, whereas anyone else's perceived "intolerance" is called into question?

[reaganaut]

Please explain jwatz, why on earth you would see the TRUTH as ‘religious bigotry’.

I thank God for people like Colo, who bluntly told me the truth about Mormonism and made me mad enough to find out that Mormonism was a lie from the pit of Hell.

[Scoutmaster]

I don't see where your post invalidates my statement.

The same premise continues to this day with the "only true church" meme of mormons and illuminates the bigotry.

I apologize. I know that the "Only True Church" is something that is part of what the LDS Church teaches and has taught for years. It's an integral part of LDS teachings, including the concept of exaltation, the Celestial Kingdom, and the ability to become a god over your own planet Most religions teach it to some extent; however, I don't see 50,000+ Methodist missionaries going door-to-door telling me that the Baptist and LDS Churches are wrong. The LDS Church doesn't just send missionaries to places where people have never heard The Gospel; it sends missionaries to Baptists, Catholics, Methodists, and Lutherans to convert them to Mormons.

I was only pointing out everyone - including members of the LDS Church and the authors of this article at www.lds.org - who are focused on the early history of the church and the importance of the First Vision often neglect to note that (a) there are multiple, conflicting accounts of the First Vision, (b) the version of the First Vision accepted as the official version isn't the first version, chronologically, written by Smith himself, and (c) the First Vision was not an integral part of the teachings of the LDS Church until 1880. In fact, it was mentioned so rarely before 1880 that specific dates of mention are generally known.

I apologize if it appeared I was invalidating your statement.

[Elsie]

The Church Began with a FALSE Prophet...

[Elsie]

I lump Smith in with Mohammad.

No need to; as JS already did it!!!

---

 

“I Will Be a Second Mohammed”

In the heat of the Missouri “Mormon War” of 1838, Joseph Smith made the following claim, “I will be to this generation a second Mohammed, whose motto in treating for peace was ‘the Alcoran [Koran] or the Sword.’ So shall it eventually be with us—‘Joseph Smith or the Sword!’ ”[1]

It is most interesting that a self-proclaimed Christian prophet would liken himself to Mohammed, the founder of Islam. His own comparison invites us to take a closer look as well. And when we do, we find some striking—and troubling—parallels. Consider the following.

• Mohammed and Joseph Smith both had humble beginnings. Neither had formal religious connections or upbringing, and both were relatively uneducated. Both founded new religions by creating their own scriptures. In fact, followers of both prophets claim these scriptures are miracles since their authors were the most simple and uneducated of men.[2]

• Both prophets claim of having angel visitations, and of receiving divine revelation to restore pure religion to the earth again. Mohammed was told that both Jews and Christians had long since corrupted their scriptures and religion. In like manner, Joseph Smith was told that all of Christianity had become corrupt, and that consequently the Bible itself was no longer reliable. In both cases, this corruption required a complete restoration of both scripture and religion. Nothing which preceded either prophet could be relied upon any longer. Both prophets claim they were used of God to restore eternal truths which once existed on earth, but had been lost due to human corruption.

• Both prophets created new scripture which borrowed heavily from the Bible, but with a substantially new “spin.” In his Koran, Mohammed appropriates a number of Biblical themes and characters—but he changes the complete sense of many passages, claiming to “correct” the Bible. In so doing he changes many doctrines, introducing his own in their place. In like manner, Joseph Smith created the Book of Mormon, much of which is plagiarized directly from the King James Bible. Interestingly, the Book of Mormon claims that this same Bible has been substantially corrupted and is therefore unreliable. In addition, Joseph Smith went so far as to actually create his own version of the Bible itself, the “Inspired Version,” in which he both adds and deletes significant portions of text, claiming he is “correcting” it. In so doing he also changes many doctrines, introducing his own in their place.

• As a part of their new scriptural “spin,” both prophets saw themselves as prophesied in scripture, and both saw themselves as a continuation of a long line of Biblical prophets. Mohammed saw himself as a continuation of the ministry of Moses and Jesus. Joseph Smith saw himself as a successor to Enoch, Melchizedek, Joseph and Moses. Joseph Smith actually wrote himself into his own version of the Bible—by name.

• Both prophets held up their own scripture as superior to the Bible. Mohammed claimed that the Koran was a perfect copy of the original which was in heaven. The Koran is therefore held to be absolutely perfect, far superior to the Bible and superceding it. In like manner, Joseph Smith also made the following claim. “I told the Brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding its precepts, than by any other book.”[3]

• Despite their claim that the Bible was corrupt, both prophets admonished their followers to adhere to its teachings. An obvious contradiction, this led to selective acceptance of some portions and wholesale rejection of others. As a result, the Bible is accepted by both groups of followers only to the extent that it agrees with their prophet’s own superior revelation.

• Both Mohammed and Joseph Smith taught that true salvation was to be found only in their respective religions. Those who would not accept their message were considered “infidels,” pagans or Gentiles. In so doing, both prophets became the enemy of genuine Christianity, and have led many people away from the Christ of the Bible.

• Both prophets encountered fierce opposition to their new religions and had to flee from town to town because of threats on their lives. Both retaliated to this opposition by forming their own militias. Both ultimately set up their own towns as model societies.

• Both Mohammed and Joseph Smith left unclear instructions about their successors. The majority of Mohammed’s followers, Sunni Muslims, believe they were to elect their new leader, whereas the minority, Shiite Muslims, believe Mohammed’s son was to be their next leader. Similarly, the majority of Joseph Smith's followers, Mormons, believed their next prophet should have been the existing leader of their quorum of twelve apostles, whereas the minority, RLDS, believed Joseph Smith's own son should have been their next prophet. Differences on this issue, and many others, have created substantial tension between these rival groups of each prophet.

• Mohammed taught that Jesus was just another of a long line of human prophets, of which he was the last. He taught that he was superior to Christ and superceded Him. In comparison, Joseph Smith also made the following claim.

“I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him, but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet.”[4] In light of these parallels, perhaps Joseph Smith's claim to be a second Mohammed unwittingly became his most genuine prophecy of all.

---

[1] Joseph Smith made this statement at the conclusion of a speech in the public square at Far West, Missouri on October 14, 1838. This particular quote is documented in Fawn M. Brodie, No Man Knows My History, second edition, (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1971), p. 230–231. Fawn Brodie’s footnote regarding this speech contains valuable information, and follows. “Except where noted, all the details of this chapter [16] are taken from the History of the [Mormon] Church. This speech, however, was not recorded there, and the report given here is based upon the accounts of seven men. See the affidavits of T.B. Marsh, Orson Hyde, George M. Hinkle, John Corrill, W.W. Phelps, Samson Avard, and Reed Peck in Correspondence, Orders, etc., pp. 57–9, 97–129. The Marsh and Hyde account, which was made on October 24, is particularly important. Part of it was reproduced in History of the [Mormon] Church, Vol. III, p. 167. See also the Peck manuscript, p. 80. Joseph himself barely mentioned the speech in his history; see Vol. III, p. 162.”

[2] John Ankerberg & John Weldon, The Facts on Islam, (Eugene, OR: Harvest House Publishers, 1998), pp.8–9. Eric Johnson, Joseph Smith & Muhammed, (El Cajon, CA: Mormonism Research Ministry, 1998), pp. 6–7.

[3] Documentary History of the [Mormon] Church, vol.4, pp.461.

[4] Documentary History of the [Mormon] Church, vol.6, pp.408–409.

[Elsie]

Lds Doctrine & Covenants 1:30 says that the Mormon Church "is the ONLY true and living church on the face of the earth" (D&C 1:30).

[So much for "Good will" and cheer to all Christian churches who claim the name of Jesus Christ every Christmas season!]

---

Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).

Joseph Smith: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).

 

 

 

Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).

 

 

 

Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).

 

 

 

Orson Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses

, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses , 18:172).

 

 

President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses , 10:127).

 

 

 

James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).

 

 

 

President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).

 

 

 

More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).

 

 

 

President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).

 

 

President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 2, p.196).

[Elsie]

Your relentless religious bigotry against the mormon church is beginning to drive me away from this site.

Can't fight the FACTS of MORMONism?

Then I guess you should leave.

Come on back any time though; as WE'LL still be here...

[Elsie]

Your relentless religious bigotry against the mormon church is beginning to drive me away from this site.

...relentless bigotry against the ISLAMic religion is beginning to drive me away from this site.

Nah...

...it does NOT have the same sense of victimhood.

[Elsie]

When Christ tells Smith he never knew him.....

---

JESUS: Hey Smith!       Remember that boast you made about doing more than even I had done to hold the 'church' together?

JOSEPH SMITH: Where am I?

JESUS: Don't you remember? A few seconds ago you were in that jail.

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh; yeah; but where am I NOW?

JESUS: Don't you remember? Does bang - bang ring a bell?

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh; yeah - that crummy gun I had was about USELESS!

JESUS: I hope you left instructions on how to hold your church together.

JOSEPH SMITH: Dang! I knew there was SOMETHING I was forgetting!

JESUS: Looks like there's a power struggle going on down there.

JOSEPH SMITH: Yeah; there was always SOMEone who wanted the power that I held - especially over the LADIES - wink wink.

JESUS: No need to worry about that now; remember what my friend Matthew wrote down?

JOSEPH SMITH: This? “At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven” (Matthew 22:30)

JESUS: That's it.

JOSEPH SMITH: I thought that was mistranslated.

JESUS: Nah - it was right.

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh well; it was fun while it lasted. My buds will still get it on with the girls.

JESUS: Uh; I'm sorry; in just a few more years; your followers will cavein to the United States government and abandon the 'Eternal Covenant' that you came up with.

JOSEPH SMITH: ME!? YOU are the one that told me to do that!

JESUS: Sorry; but you must have mistranslated what I told you. What part of Do NOT commit ADULTERY did you not understand?

JOSEPH SMITH: mumble....

JESUS: What did you say?

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh, nothing.

JESUS: Well; it was interesting talking to you; but now I must get back to perparing a place for those who believe in Me.

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh, yeah; the Celestial Kingdom.

JESUS: No...

JOSEPH SMITH: The Telestial one?

JESUS: Nope.

JOSEPH SMITH: SUREly not the TERRESTRIAL one!!

JESUS: Nope. Didn't you read that the mind of man had NOT conceived of it? Paul wrote it down in 1 Corinthians 2:9.

JOSEPH SMITH: I thought that was mistranslated.

JESUS: No; it wasn't.

JOSEPH SMITH: You SURE?

JESUS: Yes. Now I must be going: what did you say your name was again?

JOSEPH SMITH: Joseph Smith.

JESUS: Hmmmm. According to my Heavenly FAITHbook, you didn't sign in as one of my friends - sorry, I never knew you.

JOSEPH SMITH: But.... 

[Elsie]

You need to own this.

Speaking of OWNING...

Do you AGREE with or REPUDIATE the words of MORMON leaders found in reply #33?

[Elsie]

Speaking historically, and not theologically, that depends on which of the accounts of the First Vision you accept.

Why ALL of them; of course!!

--MormonDude(Just like the Gospels!)