Posted on 01/23/2012 6:52:25 AM PST by marshmallow
The Obama administration has chosen to ignore the First Amendment and add insult to injury for Catholics whose schools, hospitals and charities help make this nation great. Now the real fight begins.
Religious leaders had feared the worst from Secretary Kathleen Sebelius and her Department of Health and Human Services, which since September has been considering whether to exempt Catholic and other religious employers from a regulation mandating insurance coverage for sterilization and contraceptives, including some that cause abortion.
But on Friday afternoon, Sebelius announced the bad news in the most offensive way possible. Refusing even the smallest compromise with religious employers, she simply gave them an extra year to comply with the law.
“This decision was made after very careful consideration, including the important concerns some have raised about religious liberty,” Sebelius wrote in a brief statement from HHS. “I believe this proposal strikes the appropriate balance between respecting religious freedom and increasing access to important preventive services.”
Her attempt to appear compromising is absurd. What “balance” could Sebelius possibly mean? The HHS regulations include the narrowest exemption for religious employers ever proposed by the federal government, and even more restrictive than such exemptions in most states.
Any pretense of seeking “common ground” with faithful Catholics--which President Obama offered during his much-protested appearance at the University of Notre Dame nearly three years ago--has been stripped away. Only weeks ago, it seemed that the White House might be more sympathetic than Sebelius to the concerns of Catholic and other religious leaders. President Obama met personally with Archbishop Timothy Dolan of New York, reportedly assuring a good outcome to the HHS debacle. But now one newspaper is reporting that the president himself gave the bad news to Archbishop Dolan on Friday morning, something akin to.........
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...
So persuade us. Go ahead. Teaching moment for you.
Put some concrete examples in front of us to show us poor Democrat Catholics how your church has embraced conservatism and is leading the way in the fight against Obama.
That would of course mean telling us your church and answering a direct question, both of which you have so far proved incapable of doing.
I don’t get the attitude.
The goal is for American conservative Catholics to start facing this problem, examine it, and come up with a way to confront it, and bring change, a change that they hopefully desire, or will once they realize what the voting reality is.
This whole conversation is about how Catholic belief leads to liberalism, where even the minority portion of Catholics who vote Republican are really only center right. Of course I see the influence of religious belief. The question is, can American, conservative, Catholics create change.
The deathists in the Obama administration, like in any other, are the enemy of Catholicism, and of God, whether they “pick a fight” or not.
fixed it for you
So help us.
You've most astutely diagnosed the problem. What's the solution?
You professed an interest in showing us the way to true conservatism. No need to be coy, now.
This whole conversation is about how Catholic belief leads to liberalism, where even the minority portion of Catholics who vote Republican are really only center right.
Exactly.
We're all Democrats in disguise. That's why Obama has now picked a monumental fight with us over contraception and abortion. It's because he's Democrat, too. Get it? Democrats attacking Democrats.
Good call.
Of course I see the influence of religious belief.
It would be hard to dismiss it, wouldn't it?
Now answer the next question.
A person who accepts Catholic teaching on moral issues such as abortion is quite likely to vote differently from one who does not accept this teaching.
True or false?
The question is, can American, conservative, Catholics create change.
ROFL.......oh, you're way too late. Sorry.
Read the headline; Obama Administration Picks a Fight With Catholics.
That's right, Catholics. Read it and weep. The fight is already underway. We're in the trenches. Care to join us or will you continue to stand on the sidelines and whine?
I posed this question above and you ignored it but that won't stop me from asking again. If you know of any other church/denomination (including your own) which is currently about to embarque on such a confrontation with the government, feel free to post it, together with a link.
Given your professed desire to lead us all to conservatism, I imagine you'll be only too happy to provide us with some concrete examples.
We're waiting.
BTW, there will be plenty of news on this issue over the coming weeks as the Catholic Church formulates its response to the Obama administration. I'll be posting these articles. You'll be rewarded for your professed interest in this issue with a special ping from me. You'll have a front row seat to our confrontation with the forces of liberalism/secularism/atheism. Won't that be fun?
Generally I would agree about giving the WP hits, and yes they did print an article critical of the Obama, but in some cases I think a hit is justified and sends a message. Who knows, they may get itinto their heads that critical articles are popular.
It's about group think. With both Democrats and Catholics. And they often DO merge. Democrats want big government to take care of everyone. No individual rights, other than those the Democrats in power decide is "acceptable to have". And approve as a "right." And what do the "faithful" of the democrat party do? Fall in line, swallow hook line and sinker whatever the leaders put out. Because if they don't, they may actually be forced to make it on their own, without depending on BIG GOVERNMENT to be their safety net. Same thing with the Catholic Church. No individual thinking, other than those that big Church in power decide is "acceptable to have." And approve as a "right." And all the Big Church "faithful" fall in line, and swallow hook line and singer whatever the leaders (Pope, Magesterium,etc) put out. Because if THEY don't, they may actually be forced to find out what God actually says, not what their Church says God says. They too want that "safety net" (which isn't a safety net at all) of Big Church to group under.
It's the very same situation. One is Big Government. The other is Big Church. Of COURSE they merge together, same mottos of "No worries. We'll take care of you. Just join our group, and follow our lead."
IT's all hunky dory until an issue comes up that threatens the power of the BIG. Who wins out? Big Government or Big Church? And what do people THINK will happen if they give up their individual liberty, rights, and brains to others to run for them? Eventually, SOMEONE has to be top MR. BIG.
"Render unto Caesar" meets "And the gates of Hell". Steel cage death match of epic proportions. Between allies, no less.
The irony of ironies is that your Church is ALSO a political system.
We're discussing the latter.
Yes. I know you are. But it’s the MERGER that has caused the CONFRONTATION. duh
We're the enemy because we're Democrats, too.
My die hard Catholic old lady neighbor is Democrat to the core and is planning on voting for obama even though she doesn't like him because of obamacare. She has friends who are in MA and think Romenycare is the best thing that ever happened to them.
She says she's as pro-life as they come but don't think the government has any business telling people what to do with their bodies.
*sigh*
Actually, it doesn’t really say that, there is clearly more to it than that, look at this thread, even with the conservatives here the goal is to defend, to fight the notion of even knowing the polling data on the Catholic vote, and these are supposed to be the conservative Catholics.
There is a reason why the Catholic is a base voter for the democrat party and always has been, and it involves Catholicism.
I would hope that someday conservative Catholics would have a spark go off, and at least ponder what makes Catholics liberal, and discuss what might need to be changed.
A threat?
There is no reason for you to get personal and start stalking me, leave me off your ping list.
Your hostility on this thread is enough.
History, facts, the truth means nothing, circle the wagons and when conservatives try to look at a major component of the liberal voting block, shut down discussion or examination, close our arms, look that conservative in the eye and say, nope, never happened, I can’t see generations of voting data, it doesn’t exist, politics doesn’t apply here.
You have just given a perfect description of protestant theology when faced with such plain language as "This is My Body...This is My Blood"
What in the world does that have to do with Obama and the Catholic vote and conservative success in the voting booth and in defeating liberalism?
Bringing to your attention news of the Catholic Church's fight with Obama is "making it personal"?? ROFL...oh dear. You said you were all pumped up and wanted to tell us Catholics how to be conservatives. What happened? Not prepared to address any of the questions I raised above? Have you suddenly lost interest in this issue??........LOL!
As it so happens, you're not the only one with requests. I'd like a couple of things also. I'd like you to drop your ridiculous allegations about Catholicism. I'd like you to acknowledge that Catholics, not just one or two but lots of them, are actually in the forefront of the culture wars. Is that too much to ask? That's not too "hostile" or too "personal" for you is it?
Here's the deal. If you're not prepared to comply and insist on running around spouting your lies, I'll continue to present you with evidence to the contrary in the form of news articles which show you and everyone else exactly what the Church is doing to confront Obama. The article at the top of this thread is Exhibit "A" but there will be more.
It's your choice.
Your hostility on this thread is enough.
ROFL......did I force you in here? You could have left at any time if the .....*cough*......."hostility" was too much.
You haven't. You're still here yapping, so protestations of "hostility" ring a little hollow.
Still waiting for an answer to the issues I raised in #85. You made the statement that "Catholic beliefs lead to liberalism" (post # 82). Personally, I find that statement to be "hostile" so we're even.
“My die hard Catholic old lady neighbor is Democrat to the core and is planning on voting for obama even though she doesn’t like him because of obamacare.” Don’t people see where this is heading? Wait until they figure out that they are the expendable “useful idiots.” Wait until medical care is rationed.
This is terribly disheartening.
Have you talked with her? Shown her what Obamacare really is doing — like supporting abortions?
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