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Joseph Smith Death Mask Shows How MORmON GOLD PLATES story is false
You Tube.com ^ | Jan. 30, 2012 | Hockeybuss

Posted on 01/30/2012 9:31:42 AM PST by Colofornian

MORmONS come up with the most insane idiocy, and then they expect others to believe it because they say so, then they get offended when others dont. LDS INC has been working very hard to keep this video blocker and off of youtube because it helps shows just how stupid MORmON claims really


TOPICS: Current Events; History; Other Christian; Other non-Christian; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: bookofmormon; goldplates; incrediblehulk; josephsmith; lds
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You Tube clip less than two minutes.
1 posted on 01/30/2012 9:31:48 AM PST by Colofornian
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To: All
Alleged 'gold plates'

As recently as May 15, 1999, the LDS Church News ran an article -- "Hands-on opportunity"

Speaking of Joseph Smith, it read, "He had also been instructed by an angel, Moroni, who had met with him each year for four years. On his last visit, he was entrusted with plates of solid gold, which he had been translating by the power of the Spirit."

As it's been said, keep this in mind the next time you stop at a hardware store. Pick up a bag of cement, tuck it under your arm, and imagine yourself carrying it for a distance of three miles running as fast as you can at least part of the way. For added effect you could jump over a display or two.

So, the LDS Church News claimed it was “solid gold” in 1999.

Based upon a July 7, 2010 Mormon Times article, they then estimated these plates to be about 100 pounds. Not impossible to move around, but still pretty heavy – especially because – per Joseph Smith's mother – ”After proceeding a short distance, he thought it would be more safe to leave the road and go through the woods. Traveling some distance after he left the road, he came to a large windfall, and as he was jumping over a log, a man sprang up from behind it, and gave him a heavy blow with a gun. Joseph turned around and knocked him down, then ran at the top of his speed…” (History of Joseph Smith by His Mother, Lucy Smith, pp.107-108)

Wow! Incredibly fishy!

Imagine you're in the SuperBowl – not the pro-bowl just played where the defenders were playing “pansy” defense. You're a running back, and you've been told that in addition to running through the line at “the top of” your speed, you have to carry 100 pounds of gold on you. And so you go up vs. a linebacker – who surprises you from the corner as you were “jumping over” a lineman...Tell us...how likely is such a running back, leaping over a lineman, surprised by the sudden presence of the linebacker, going to have...
(a)...his feet planted on the ground firm enough...
(b)...his arms free enough...
(c)...his agility in place to totally “turn around” after the linebacker delivers a “heavy blow” to you...
...and then, upon receiving that blow, turn around and having enough “umph” to knock the linebacker down???!

Oh...and then...with those 100 extra pounds, Smith was able to run “at the top of his speed” to outdistance the attacker, eh?

Boy, the NFL came too late for Joseph Smith! (It'd have been a "perfect fit," too...Hey, with all those women, he could have been the NFL's counterpart of NBA star Wilt Chamberlain, who slept with 1,000+ women!)

Now, where does this analogy embellish anything? Well, certainly, the alleged attacker of Smith wasn't necessarily an NFL-sized linebacker...but hey...
...#1 if Smith could outdistance this guy with an extra 100-pound load, he may have actually been more of a NFL lineman size!
And, #2, Smith wasn't exactly an NFL running back, either...making it even all the more unlikely that he could leap over a log – be surprised by being dealt a “heavy blow with a gun” – then “turn around” and knock the guy down. I mean, why was Smith even still standing if he had such a “heavy blow?”

2 posted on 01/30/2012 9:36:19 AM PST by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

In before the talking hat.


3 posted on 01/30/2012 9:40:05 AM PST by Zuben Elgenubi
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To: Colofornian

The site froze my computer. Takes two minutes to say why didn’t Smith or his followers take rubbings of the goldplates.


4 posted on 01/30/2012 9:43:28 AM PST by heartwood
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To: Colofornian

Imagine living to be 976 years old.


5 posted on 01/30/2012 9:49:03 AM PST by mcjordansc
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place marker


6 posted on 01/30/2012 9:49:23 AM PST by svcw (For the new year: you better toughen You up, if you are going to continue to be stupid.)
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To: Colofornian
Moroni? More like ANCIENT ALIEN!


7 posted on 01/30/2012 9:50:31 AM PST by evets (beer)
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To: Colofornian
In long after the idiocy.

That stupid video proves nothing. Because some people choose to make a death mask of Joesph Smith but not make paper rubbings of their scripture, that supposedly proves Mormonism is a fraud?

Do you have any idea how stupid a supposition that is. Why this place has become a center of Mormon hate is beyond me. As a Christian (Ordained Elder in my Presbyterian Church) and a strong Gingrich supporter, I have no idea why everyone thinks it is so cool to attack Mormons.

I do not subscribe to their beliefs, but I respect them, as I respect Catholics and Jews. All these Mormon attacks just make FR look small and petty.

BTW, have you ever tried to explain Christianity, a religion about a guy who could turn water into wine, feed thousands from a few loaves and fishes, could raise the dead,he himself was dead.... but then not dead... and was born to a woman who had never had sex....? Ever tried explaining that to a Buddhist or a Taoist?

Why don't we just lay off the Mormon attacks.

They are not something Jesus would do.

8 posted on 01/30/2012 9:54:09 AM PST by MindBender26 (New Army SF and Ranger Slogan: Vengeance is Mine, sayeth the Lord.... but He subcontracts!)
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To: heartwood
Takes two minutes to say why didn’t Smith or his followers take rubbings of the goldplates.

They were too busy to do scratch and sniff. They were gone on the planet Kolob, where one day in Kolob is equal to a thousand years. And where the ancient Central American Indians descended from Jews. And where a teenage can run, jump over logs, and defend himself while carrying hundred of pounds of gold plates.

Why do you question this?

9 posted on 01/30/2012 9:54:25 AM PST by laweeks
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To: Colofornian
THAT was funny, great analogy.

And to think that Moses only got a rock slab, and a wooden staff.

Great Video. I have fun sometimes trying to figure out how JS thought up all those names for his make believe characters.

Come to think about it JS may have been DOWNS or something. My 14 yr old Downs grandson has MANY make believe friends.

10 posted on 01/30/2012 10:00:20 AM PST by annieokie
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To: MindBender26
. . . have you ever tried to explain Christianity, a religion about a guy who could turn water into wine, feed thousands from a few loaves and fishes, could raise the dead,he himself was dead.... but then not dead... and was born to a woman who had never had sex....?

Well, I guess it's a tie, huh? Joseph Smith, Jr., a con-man, grifter, embezzler, philanderer, child molester, and bigamist, versus Jesus Christ, our Lord. Tough to sell, huh?

11 posted on 01/30/2012 10:00:32 AM PST by laweeks
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To: Colofornian

ping


12 posted on 01/30/2012 10:04:01 AM PST by razorback-bert (Some days it's not worth chewing through the straps.)
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To: MindBender26; Colofornian

Christianity has been the target of attacks for two millenia. The Mormons wish to be considered Christian. Therefore they need to suck it up and deal with the same kind of scrutiny, mocking, and ridicule as the rest of Christianity has to put up with.


13 posted on 01/30/2012 10:04:40 AM PST by MeganC (No way in Hell am I voting for Mitt Romney. Not now, not ever. Deal with it.)
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To: MindBender26

Jesus would NOT be happy with the Mormon cult.


14 posted on 01/30/2012 10:06:49 AM PST by CainConservative (Newt/Huck 2012 with Cain, Palin, Santorum, Parker, Watts, Duncan, & Petraeus in Newt's Cabinet)
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To: MindBender26
They are not something Jesus would do.

Oh really...but yes he did.... and He called us to defend the faith against those who use it's verbage and label conceal and mask an otherwise cult.

Take note that when Jesus dealt with the Pharisees, who were respected religious leaders of the day, Jesus' language can only be called 'harsh'......

He called them hypocrites,.. children of hell,.. blind guides,.. fools and blind..serpents,.. and a generation of vipers....

“O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?” [Matthew 3:7]

“O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.” [Matthew 12:34]

“Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.” [Matthew 23:27]

“Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?” [Matthew 23:33]

Additionally Jesus openly accuses them of numerous transgressions, including pride and hypocrisy,........

Yea, they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with their finger..... But all their works they do to be seen of men: for they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments, and love the chief place at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues, and the salutations in the marketplaces, and to be called of men, Rabbi. [Matthew 23:4-7]

15 posted on 01/30/2012 10:14:42 AM PST by caww
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To: Colofornian
I believe Mormons are following a made up religion, but the premise of the video is Bogus. Just because someone could have done something, the absensce of their doing it proves nothing.

I could make a better case that the Bible is a fraud. Where in Scripture did Christ tell anyone to write anything down, and compile it into an authorative book?

The closest thing is the prologue to Revelation, which I believe Joseph Smith used to craft the book of Mormon: The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.

16 posted on 01/30/2012 10:18:23 AM PST by FatherofFive (Islam is evil and must be eradicated)
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To: MindBender26
"Why don't we just lay off the Mormon attacks. They are not something Jesus would do.

Why don't you lay off appealing to what Jesus would do in hypothetical situations where you don't really have a clue what Jesus would do.

Jesus didn't hesitate to use strong words and attacks against the Pharisees for their hypocrisy and misleading the people. Jesus frankly confronted the Sadduccees and told them that "They erred because they did not know the scriptures." And Jesus even took a weapon, a scourge, to drive the merchants out of the Temple.

Mar 12:24 And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?

Mat 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

Mar 9:42 "And if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a large millstone tied around his neck.

Mormon's mislead people away from the gospel with their false beliefs. Scripture is clear both with it's direct commands and in the example that Jesus sets, that we are to confront such evil.

I strongly suspect, that Jesus would not be silent to those who mislead others.

17 posted on 01/30/2012 10:18:38 AM PST by DannyTN
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To: Colofornian

“He had also been instructed by an angel, Moroni, who had met with him each year for four years.

Weird. Usually single digit events happens in 3’s or 7’s.


18 posted on 01/30/2012 10:19:42 AM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: evets

Fake but real....


19 posted on 01/30/2012 10:20:43 AM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: MindBender26

They are not something Jesus would do.

REALLY?? The scriptures clearly tell us to test every spirit. Mormons are not being attacked here...Mormonism is being scrutinized here and falling short of the truth.


20 posted on 01/30/2012 10:20:59 AM PST by leenie312
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To: MindBender26; Elsie; MeganC
As a Christian (Ordained Elder in my Presbyterian Church) and a strong Gingrich supporter, I have no idea why everyone thinks it is so cool to attack Mormons. I do not subscribe to their beliefs, but I respect them.

Well, by all means. Respect Mormons as individuals. That doesn't translate to having to respect all Mormon claims or beliefs -- anymore than you, a Presbyterian, would absolutely need to "respect" Mormonism's specific Mormon "scriptural" teaching that "Presbyterianism is not true." (Joseph Smith - History, v. 20, Pearl of Great Price "scripture") Right?

(Here, you can read it in context): Lds "scripture" - Joseph Smith History, Pearl of Great Price:

18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.
19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”
20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother, “I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.”

But, go ahead, Mindbender. Tell us that you "respect" the claim that God believes "Presbyterianism is not true" per Mormon gods' claim to "revelation" and "visions."

And then, tell us, Mindbender, how you "respect" that the 1870s' Mormons decided to forever "enshrine" this statement -- that "Presbyterianism is not true" -- as "scripture" for millions of people to read in the 18th, 19th, 20th, 21st and beyond centuries!

And then, tell us, Mindbender, how you "respect" that 20th and 21st century Mormons have been busy translating this phrase into dozens and dozens and dozens (& more) languages and spread around the world...so that the rest of the world can learn that -- supposedly -- "Presbyterianism is not true."

Why, why should Presbyterians even send out foreign missionaries since the Mormons are being so "respectful" toward Presbyterianism...You could just encourage your fellow elders across Presbyterianismland in the U.S.A. to sign a "PR" contract with all those 52,000 Lds missionaries and they could go "highlighting" a "respectful" approach to promoting Presbyterianism in even more ways.

Perhaps, Lds missionaries could...
...fly airplanes around the world -- with outstretched banners reading, "Presbyterianism isn't true."
...Or erect billboards all over the world in hundreds of languages with that same message.

What say ye, Mindbender?

21 posted on 01/30/2012 10:22:51 AM PST by Colofornian
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To: MindBender26
Who is the religious bigot?
 
http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/17#17

  17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
  18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.
  19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”
  20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother,
“I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.”
 

22 posted on 01/30/2012 10:24:09 AM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: Colofornian

I saved this some time ago but interesting thought and applicable when Mormons bellyache for our defending the Christian Faith.

As follows:

What would happen if I said that Joseph Smith, that is Miss Joseph Smith, taught the Law of Eternal REGRESSION - that we used to be Gods in the pre-existence, now we have regressed to humans, and if we are worthy, we can one day be vegetables?

And even worse, what if hundreds - even millions of Mormons started believing us?

“Now wait just a minute,” a Mormon might answer. That is not what Joseph Smith taught, and you’re not a REAL Mormon missionary.

He is absolutely right! “I would be teaching a counterfeit Mormonism and a counterfeit Joseph Smith.”

.....if even a few Mormon families were converted by us bogus Mormons, he, his Church leaders in Salt Lake City, and every other discerning Mormon would have the right to warn their own followers and the general public of the difference between our Joseph Smith and the genuine article......More than the right, they would have the responsibility to help their members avoid the trap of these “mock Mormon Missionaries.”

Hopefully, they would go beyond warning their members of our error. Perhaps they would even sit down with us and explain, from their scriptures and history why, even though “we believe in Joseph, too,” we were actually teaching an imitation Joseph Smith.

Author-—unknown-—


23 posted on 01/30/2012 10:25:48 AM PST by caww
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To: evets

I got a girl named Boney Moroni.
She’s as skinny as a stick of macaroni.


24 posted on 01/30/2012 10:25:48 AM PST by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ( Ya can't pick up a turd by the clean end!)
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To: MeganC

That’s right. They now want to be considered Christian not “Christians”.

One term is objectified and exclusionary to anyone who is not a member.

The other is?


25 posted on 01/30/2012 10:26:04 AM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: Colofornian

Missed it by that much!


26 posted on 01/30/2012 10:27:24 AM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: Colofornian; MindBender26
 
Joseph Smith continues: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from
Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith-History 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).
 
 
Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?
 [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'.
When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'?
[Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).
 
 
Brigham Young stated this repeatedly:
"When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73);
"The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171);
"With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199);
"And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.24);
"Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).
 
 
Orson Pratt proclaimed:
"Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).
"This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses, vol.18, p.44),
"But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses, 18:172).
 
 
President John Taylor stated:
"Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.167);
"Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses, 10:127).
 
 
James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).
 
 
President Joseph Fielding Smith said:
"Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266).
"For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).
 
 
More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear:
"Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265);
"Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132);
"virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269);
"Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).
 
 
President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).
 
 
President Wilford Woodruff stated:
"the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p.196).
 
 

27 posted on 01/30/2012 10:28:36 AM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: MindBender26

Really?
You respect mormonISM and you say you are am Elder, hum?
You probably should not defend something you apparently know nothing about.
mormonISM is a bastardization and blasphemy of the Word of God.
Jesus commanded us to call out false prophets, how do you not know that? Joseph Smith is a false prophet.


28 posted on 01/30/2012 10:30:05 AM PST by svcw (For the new year: you better toughen You up, if you are going to continue to be stupid.)
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To: mcjordansc

It’s not how old you are. It’s how you feel.


29 posted on 01/30/2012 10:31:13 AM PST by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults.)
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To: caww

IMO Mormons stick together.


30 posted on 01/30/2012 10:36:09 AM PST by Big Horn (Rebuild the GOP to a conservative party)
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To: MindBender26

I agree with post 8. Let’s not knock one’s religion, Mormon, Roman Catholic or what ever. I believe that faith in God, gods or an ethical way of life makes most of us better persons. We are choosing to behave in a way of living not just based on selfish individualism.

Most of us on FR do have a problem with Islam’s more radical sects such as Salafism and Iranian Shi’ism as some of those imams and followers have been killing and wounding our soldiers abroad and 9/11 was engineered by radical Islamists. The fact that a billion or more people on Earth are Islamic means we have to hope the majority of them, as time passes, reject violence against non-Islamics. Meanwhile, we have to protect our homeland.


31 posted on 01/30/2012 11:01:52 AM PST by RicocheT (Eat the rich only if you're certain it's your last meal)
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To: Colofornian
Can you please educate me about this "Mormon Magic Underwear" business?

I thought someone was joking but I keep reading more about it.

And will someone ask Romney if it's Magic Briefs or Magic Boxers?

32 posted on 01/30/2012 11:02:32 AM PST by TexasCajun
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To: svcw; MindBender26

According to a pamphlet produced by the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.),

“...Mormonism is a new and emerging religious tradition distinct from the historic apostolic tradition of the Christian Church, of which Presbyterians are a part...Latter-day Saints understand themselves to be separate from the continuous witness to Jesus Christ, from the apostles to the present, affirmed by churches of the “catholic” tradition. Latter-day Saints and the historic churches view the canon of scriptures and interpret shared scriptures in radically different ways. They use the same words with dissimilar meanings. When the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints speaks of the Trinity, Christ’s death and resurrection, and salvation, the theology and practices related to these set it apart from the Orthodox, Roman Catholic, and Protestant churches.”


33 posted on 01/30/2012 11:12:58 AM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: Jonty30

“You’re only as old as the woman you feel.” - George Burns

;^)


34 posted on 01/30/2012 11:15:35 AM PST by elcid1970 ("Deport all Muslims. Nuke Mecca now. Death to Islam means freedom for all mankind.")
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To: MindBender26

“They are not something Jesus would do. “

Well, He did attack those who pretend to be righteous while keeping others from the truth.
No different that mormonism.

Apostles Paul and Peter had no hesitation of criticizing heretics.
No different than mormonism.

Jude had no problem attacking heretics.
No different than mormonism.

By the way, God Himself had no problem destroying pagans and those of His nation who followed them...

Me thinks you are simply uninformed.


35 posted on 01/30/2012 11:23:37 AM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (Proud RINOmney Denialist since 2007!)
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To: Colofornian

As the owner of blacktieswhiteshortsleaveshirtbicycletiresoddunderwear.com I think I don’t care about this thread....


36 posted on 01/30/2012 11:24:14 AM PST by isthisnickcool (Sharia? No thanks!)
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To: MindBender26; MeganC; All
Why don't we just lay off the Mormon attacks. They are not something Jesus would do.

Please tell me, then, what you think of just these verses alone (not to mention Matthew 23, John 8, etc.):

To the Sadducees: Jesus replied, “You are IN ERROR because you DO NOT KNOW THE SCRIPTURES OR THE POWER OF GOD. 30 At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. 31 But about the resurrection of the dead—have you not read what God said to you... (Matt. 22:29-31)

And what about these?

Matt. 15:9: But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Matt. 16:12: ...guard against the yeast...against the TEACHING of the Pharisees and Sadducees.
Luke 11:52: ... you have taken away the key to knowledge.

Maybe, as an elder of a Presbyterian church, perhaps you need to spend some more time in the Scriptures.

But hey, if you're an elder of a Presbyterian church - USA denom, I'll understand the backdrop.

37 posted on 01/30/2012 11:34:59 AM PST by Colofornian
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To: Vendome

“That’s right. They now want to be considered Christian not “Christians”.

One term is objectified and exclusionary to anyone who is not a member.

The other is?”

Clearly, the Mormons are not Christians because they reject the tenets of the Nicene Creed that is normative for Christians.

But they wish to be called Christian because they want to be accepted in mainstream society and because it is a form of deception that their missionaries can use to insinuate themselves with the unsaved and the unknowing.

The boys on the tenspeeds have found it easier to deceive potential recruits if they can call themselves ‘Christian’ and then confuse the differences between Mormonism and, say, Methodism.


38 posted on 01/30/2012 11:37:17 AM PST by MeganC (No way in Hell am I voting for Mitt Romney. Not now, not ever. Deal with it.)
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To: Zuben Elgenubi
In before the talking hat.

You wuz RIGHT!!


 
...with his face stuck in a hat.
 



"Now the way he translated was he put the urim and thummim into his hat and Darkned his Eyes than he would take a sentance and it would apper in Brite Roman Letters. Then he would tell the writer and he would write it. Then that would go away the next sentance would Come and so on. But if it was not Spelt rite it would not go away till it was rite, so we see it was marvelous. Thus was the hol [whole] translated."
---Joseph Knight's journal.


"In writing for your father I frequently wrote day after day, often sitting at the table close by him, he sitting with his face buried in his hat, with the stone in it, and dictating hour after hour with nothing between us."
(History of the RLDS Church, 8 vols.
(Independence, Missouri: Herald House,1951),
"Last Testimony of Sister Emma [Smith Bidamon]," 3:356.

"I, as well as all of my father's family, Smith's wife, Oliver Cowdery and Martin Harris, were present during the translation. . . . He [Joseph Smith] did not use the plates in translation."
---(David Whitmer,
as published in the "Kansas City Journal," June 5, 1881,
and reprinted in the RLDS "Journal of History", vol. 8, (1910), pp. 299-300.

In an 1885 interview, Zenas H. Gurley, then the editor of the RLDS Saints Herald, asked Whitmer if Joseph had used his "Peep stone" to do the translation. Whitmer replied:

"... he used a stone called a "Seers stone," the "Interpreters" having been taken away from him because of transgression. The "Interpreters" were taken from Joseph after he allowed Martin Harris to carry away the 116 pages of Ms [manuscript] of the Book of Mormon as a punishment, but he was allowed to go on and translate by use of a "Seers stone" which he had, and which he placed in a hat into which he buried his face, stating to me and others that the original character appeared upon parchment and under it the translation in English."


"Martin Harris related an incident that occurred during the time that he wrote that portion of the translation of the Book of Mormon which he was favored to write direct from the mouth of the Prophet Joseph Smith. He said that the Prophet possessed a seer stone, by which he was enabled to translate as well as from the Urim and Thummim, and for convenience he then used the seer stone, Martin explained the translation as follows: By aid of the seer stone, sentences would appear and were read by the Prophet and written by Martin and when finished he would say 'Written,' and if correctly written that sentence would disappear and another appear in its place, but if not written correctly it remained until corrected, so that the translation was just as it was engraven on the plates, precisely in the language then used."
(Edward Stevenson, "One of the Three Witnesses,"
reprinted from Deseret News, 30 Nov. 1881
in Millennial Star, 44 (6 Feb. 1882): 86-87.)

In 1879, Michael Morse, Emma Smith's brother-in-law, stated:
 
 "When Joseph was translating the Book of Mormon [I] had occasion more than once to go into his immediate presence, and saw him engaged at his work of translation. The mode of procedure consisted in Joseph's placing the Seer Stone in the crown of a hat, then putting his face into the hat, so as to entirely cover his face, resting his elbows upon his knees, and then dictating word after word, while the scribes Emma, John Whitmer, O. Cowdery, or some other wrote it down."
(W.W. Blair interview with Michael Morse,
Saints Herald, vol. 26, no. 12
June 15, 1879,  pp. 190-91.)


Joseph Smith's brother William also testified to the "face in the hat" version:
 
"The manner in which this was done was by looking into the Urim and Thummim, which was placed in a hat to exclude the light, (the plates lying near by covered up), and reading off the translation, which appeared in the stone by the power of God"
("A New Witness for Christ in America,"
Francis W. Kirkham, 2:417.)


"The manner in which he pretended to read and interpret was the same manner as when he looked for the money-diggers, with the stone in his hat, while the book of plates were at the same time hid in the woods."
---Isaac Hale (Emma Smith's father's) affidavit, 1834.




39 posted on 01/30/2012 11:40:49 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: TexasCajun
Can you please educate me about this "Mormon Magic Underwear" business? I thought someone was joking but I keep reading more about it.

Here...you can go to this October 2003 Ensign mag article (official Lds pub): The Doctrine of Temple Work (Mormonism - Open)

Per Mormon teaching, ...One of the great privileges we have is the wearing of the garment......The garment, … when properly worn, will serve as a protection against temptation and evil. “It is expected that members will wear the garment both night and day...Members should not adjust the garment or wear it contrary to instructions in order to accommodate different styles of clothing...The garment should not be removed for activities which might reasonably be done with the garment worn beneath the clothing...

40 posted on 01/30/2012 11:42:22 AM PST by Colofornian
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To: MindBender26
Because some people choose to make a death mask of Joesph Smith but not make paper rubbings of their scripture, that supposedly proves Mormonism is a fraud?

No; THIS stuff PROVES it!


The "Caractors" are the only tangible evidence in existence related to Smith's story. No gold plates, no brass plates, no peep stones, no Urim and Thummim... only these "Caractors," not a single one of which is in the purported languages.

 

Smith's translation of the Caractors. According to Martin Harris (Joseph Smith - History, 1:64), "I went to the city of New York, and presented the characters which had been translated, with the translation thereof, to Professor Charles Anthon, a gentleman celebrated for his literary attainments. Professor Anthon stated that the translation was correct, more so than any he had before seen translated from the Egyptian. I then showed him those which were not yet translated,* and he said they were Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac, and Arabic; and he said they were true characters."

Speak right up now in all truthfulness. Isn't it revealing how Smith started out making a stab at creating believable "caractors" but quckly gave up and produced nothing but squiggles, ending up wih a series of nothing more than crude little scribbles? Yet Professor Anthon supposedly translated them!

*Harris must have had two or three pieces of paper with him—one with characters and a translation of them (on the same paper or a separate one) and one with untranslated characters—quite likely the "Caractors." Some Mormon "scholars" have gone out on a limb, sawed it off, and knocked themselves out trying to translate from these true Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac, and Arabic characters a segment that would correspond with a verse from 1 Nephi.


Modern-day experts in Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac, and Arabic. In 1829, any knowledge of these languages possessed by U.S. scholars would have been rudimentary at best. Expertise in them has vastly improved since then. So go ahead, do it. Get any modern expert in these languages to identify which of these "Caractors" are Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac and Arabic. Better still, accept the claim of Mormon apologists that Anthon did indeed so testify and that his appraisal of the Caractors was correct. (Op. cit, pp. 73-75)

Save your money! Samples of Assyriac/Aramaic and Arabic writing:



     .
 

     .
 

      .
 



What say you? Which of Smith's "Caractors" resemble the Assyriac and Arabic ones? No need to pay experts for their analysis. A child could accurately check this out. These writing systems have remained constant for well over 3000 years.


41 posted on 01/30/2012 11:42:53 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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Comment #42 Removed by Moderator

To: MindBender26

Well stated.

I applaud you.


43 posted on 01/30/2012 11:43:53 AM PST by Hulka
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To: MindBender26
Oh shut up, SATAN!

 


 
Matthew 15:16
   "Are you still so dull?" Jesus asked them.

Matthew 23
 
  1.  Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples:
  2.  "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat.
  3.  So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
  4.  They tie up heavy loads and put them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
  5.  "Everything they do is done for men to see: They make their phylacteries  wide and the tassels on their garments long;
  6.  they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues;
  7.  they love to be greeted in the marketplaces and to have men call them `Rabbi.'
  8.  "But you are not to be called `Rabbi,' for you have only one Master and you are all brothers.
  9.  And do not call anyone on earth `father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.
 10.  Nor are you to be called `teacher,' for you have one Teacher, the Christ.
 11.  The greatest among you will be your servant.
 12.  For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
 13.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to. 
 14.  Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation. 
 15.   "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are. 
 16.  "Woe to you, blind guides! You say, `If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.'
 17.  You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred?
 18.  You also say, `If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gift on it, he is bound by his oath.'
 19.  You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred?
 20.  Therefore, he who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it.
 21.  And he who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it.
 22.  And he who swears by heaven swears by God's throne and by the one who sits on it.
 23.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.
 24.  You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.
 25.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.
 26.  Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.
 27.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites!  You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean.
 28.  In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.
 29.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous.
 30.  And you say, `If we had lived in the days of our forefathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.'
 31.  So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets.
 32.  Fill up, then, the measure of the sin of your forefathers!
 33.  "You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?
 34.  Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.
 35.  And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.
 36.  I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.
 37.  "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing.
 38.  Look, your house is left to you desolate.
 39.  For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, `Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.' "
 


Mark 7:26-27
 26.  The woman was a Greek, born in Syrian Phoenicia. She begged Jesus to drive the demon out of her daughter.
 27.  "First let the children eat all they want," he told her, "for it is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs."
 

And St. Paul chimes in...

Galatians 5:12
   As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!
 


44 posted on 01/30/2012 11:44:23 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: MindBender26
Why this place has become a center of Mormon hate is beyond me.

Then you need a little bit of HISTORY to get you up to speed:


Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).
Joseph Smith: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).
 
 
 
Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).
 
 
 
Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).
 
 
 
Orson Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses
, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses , 18:172).
 
 
President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses , 10:127).
 
 
 
James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).
 
 
 
President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).
 
 
 
More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).
 
 
 
President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).
 
 
President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 2, p.196).

45 posted on 01/30/2012 11:45:48 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: RicocheT

Why thank you Oprah.
As a historical note, we have been fighting islam since 1786.


46 posted on 01/30/2012 11:47:13 AM PST by svcw (For the new year: you better toughen You up, if you are going to continue to be stupid.)
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To: annieokie

He had a lot of Z’s left over...


47 posted on 01/30/2012 11:47:32 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: annieokie

Here!

Just go nuts!

http://wesclark.com/ubn/


48 posted on 01/30/2012 11:48:33 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: leenie312
The scriptures clearly tell us to test every spirit.

And then some...

Even Joseph Smith supposedly knew how to TEST one; but he FAILED to do so!!


 Doctrine and Covenants       Section 129

 
Instructions given by Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, 9 February 1843, making known three grand keys by which the correct nature of ministering angels and spirits may be distinguished (see History of the Church, 5:267).

1–3, There are both resurrected and spirit bodies in heaven; 4–9, Keys are given whereby messengers from beyond the veil may be identified.
1 There are two kinds of beings in heaven, namely: Angels, who are resurrected personages, having bodies of flesh and bones;
2 For instance, Jesus said: Handle me and see, for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
3 Secondly: the spirits of just men made perfect, they who are not resurrected, but inherit the same glory.
4 When a messenger comes saying he has a message from God, offer him your hand and request him to shake hands with you.
5 If he be an angel he will do so, and you will feel his hand.
6 If he be the spirit of a just man made perfect he will come in his glory; for that is the only way he can appear;
7 Ask him to shake hands with you, but he will not move, because it is contrary to the order of heaven for a just man to deceive; but he will still deliver his message.
8 If it be the devil as an angel of light, when you ask him to shake hands he will offer you his hand, and you will not feel anything; you may therefore detect him.
9 These are three grand keys whereby you may know whether any administration is from God.

       Joseph Smith

49 posted on 01/30/2012 11:52:13 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Colofornian
So, we can only speculate that Mitt Romney is wearing this "garment" at all times to protect himself from temptation and evil?

I see a lot of similarities in Joseph Smith, Jr. and L. Ron Hubbard.

50 posted on 01/30/2012 11:54:30 AM PST by TexasCajun
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