WHY THE MAGISTERIUM MAKES SENSE TO ME

Ignitum Today ^ | February 2, 2012 | Colin Gormley

[narses]

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[crosshairs]

Wow CommerceComet, should be getting a 10,000 copy/paste heading our way. Hoping that a flood of words will give the response legitimacy.

[metmom]

Don't look at me.

However, read more context.

John 10:31-39 31 The Jews picked up stones again to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?”

33 The Jews answered him,“It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.”

34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’? 35 If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be broken— 36 do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’? 37 If I am not doing the works of my Father, then do not believe me; 38 but if I do them,even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me and I am in the Father.” 39 Again they sought to arrest him, but he escaped from their hands.

I think He's pointing out their hypocrisy in that they'll accept the *ye are gods* when it comes to talking about men but when someone actually comes along and claims to be God, they're ready to stone Him.

Jesus made it pretty clear who He was. How could He be accusing someone of blasphemy for stating what He had been telling them all along?

[papertyger]

Because the Bible is static while the Magisterium is not.

[papertyger]

Hardly. The entire gathering was in turmoil UNTIL Peter stood up and gave the official reasoning... at which time James as the local Bishop gave his ruling.

[Quix]

I agree.

However, I don’t think the context will influence him at all. Sadly.

Thx thx.

BTW, you have email.

[papertyger]

So Mary, who was in the kingdom was greater.

What’s your problem?

[papertyger]

They fiercely fight to keep those chains of bondage. And they have read the Truth here over and over and it has no effect. The lies/deception they were fed have taken deep roots. They have no one to blame when the time comes. Time is better spent on those who want to hear/learn The Truth, IMO

Don't kid yourself. If you do-it-yourself theologians could give true freedom...I'd still be one of you.

[presently no screen name]

If you do-it-yourself theologians could give true freedom...I'd still be one of you.

Yeah, I could see you as one - and probably still have some of it in you.

I'm humble, I'm no theologian. I'm a child of God and The Teacher of HIS WORD is His Spirit. Just the way God designed it to be.

[papertyger]

Sorry. Posturing humility doesn’t work when you play critic.

If God designed his word to be your teacher why didn’t he give us a book instead of a church?

[Heart-Rest]

It's taken deep root because the flesh has a veracious appetite to be fed. If it can be seen, felt, heard, smelled, or tasted, the flesh is satisfied. For a short time. Then it's back to the 5 senses for gratification. Which is exactly what the RCC does. Feeds the 5 senses. And deceives people into believing that the 5 senses lead to the spirit. Which is why they are so easily deceived. By "visions", "apparitions","miracles", the eucharist, sacraments, etc. All appealing to the flesh.

Wait a second here --- are you saying that when you hear or read the Bible, the written Word of God, you are doing that somehow without using any of your five senses?

[Heart-Rest]

Take a hint. She wasn’t supposed to be venerated or the apostles would have written about it. As I said earlier, the entire myth of Mariology is just that. Myth. Not sanctioned by scripture.

Are you saying that if it isn't in the Bible, it didn't happen?

(In other words, if there is no mention in the Bible of the original Apostles dying, to you that means they didn't die, or that they were not shown great honor when they died, simply because it wasn't recorded in the Bible? If you do not know the exact circumstances of their deaths, do you then automatically assume those deaths could not possibly have happened? Or would you have to say, "perhaps they died here, at such-and-such date, or perhaps they died there, at this other date -- we don't know for sure"?) Do you really think it would have been unlikely that the other Christians showed them all great honor at their deaths, even if that wasn't recorded in the Holy Scriptures?

By the way, you do understand that "venerate" simply means (by definition) to show great respect, honor, and love towards a person, don't you? (It does NOT mean worship.)

Jesus told the rich guy (recorded in Mark 10) that one of the things he should do to obtain eternal life was to obey the commandments, and he pointed out several specific ones, including the commandment to honor one's father and mother. Do you think Jesus honored his own mother? Do you think Jesus would want everyone else to honor his mother Mary as well? Do you think the original Apostles honored the mother of Jesus?

While (to my knowledge) no one has ever stated that a person must honor Mary in order to gain salvation, it would also appear to me to be a very unwise thing to in some way dis-honor the mother of Jesus, who is God.

(In fact, you should never dishonor anyone's mother.)

[Heart-Rest]

Take a hint. She wasn’t supposed to be venerated or the apostles would have written about it. As I said earlier, the entire myth of Mariology is just that. Myth. Not sanctioned by scripture.

Are you saying that if it isn't in the Bible, it didn't happen?

(In other words, if there is no mention in the Bible of the original Apostles dying, to you that means they didn't die, or that they were not shown great honor when they died, simply because it wasn't recorded in the Bible? If you do not know the exact circumstances of their deaths, do you then automatically assume those deaths could not possibly have happened? Or would you have to say, "perhaps they died here, at such-and-such date, or perhaps they died there, at this other date -- we don't know for sure"?) Do you really think it would have been unlikely that the other Christians showed them all great honor at their deaths, even if that wasn't recorded in the Holy Scriptures?

By the way, you do understand that "venerate" simply means (by definition) to show great respect, honor, and love towards a person, don't you? (It does NOT mean worship.)

Jesus told the rich guy (recorded in Mark 10) that one of the things he should do to obtain eternal life was to obey the commandments, and he pointed out several specific ones, including the commandment to honor one's father and mother. Do you think Jesus honored his own mother? Do you think Jesus would want everyone else to honor his mother Mary as well? Do you think the original Apostles honored the mother of Jesus?

While (to my knowledge) no one has ever stated that a person must honor Mary in order to gain salvation, it would also appear to me to be a very unwise thing to in some way dis-honor the mother of Jesus, who is God.

(In fact, you should never dishonor anyone's mother.)

[Heart-Rest]

Take a hint. She wasn’t supposed to be venerated or the apostles would have written about it. As I said earlier, the entire myth of Mariology is just that. Myth. Not sanctioned by scripture.

Are you saying that if it isn't in the Bible, it didn't happen?

(In other words, if there is no mention in the Bible of the original Apostles dying, to you that means they didn't die, or that they were not shown great honor when they died, simply because it wasn't recorded in the Bible? If you do not know the exact circumstances of their deaths, do you then automatically assume those deaths could not possibly have happened? Or would you have to say, "perhaps they died here, at such-and-such date, or perhaps they died there, at this other date -- we don't know for sure"?) Do you really think it would have been unlikely that the other Christians showed them all great honor at their deaths, even if that wasn't recorded in the Holy Scriptures?

By the way, you do understand that "venerate" simply means (by definition) to show great respect, honor, and love towards a person, don't you? (It does NOT mean worship.)

Jesus told the rich guy (recorded in Mark 10) that one of the things he should do to obtain eternal life was to obey the commandments, and he pointed out several specific ones, including the commandment to honor one's father and mother. Do you think Jesus honored his own mother? Do you think Jesus would want everyone else to honor his mother Mary as well? Do you think the original Apostles honored the mother of Jesus?

While (to my knowledge) no one has ever stated that a person must honor Mary in order to gain salvation, it would also appear to me to be a very unwise thing to in some way dis-honor the mother of Jesus, who is God.

(In fact, you should never dishonor anyone's mother.)

[smvoice]

Really? Must I explain?

"But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God." (1 Cor. 2:10).

If you have received Christ as your Savior, you have the Holy Spirit dwelling in your body and the Spirit of God will reveal truth to you. His Word is truth. THerefore, if you study His Word, the Holy Spirit will reveal His truth to you.

God did not say that miracles, signs, wonders, apparitions, masses, religious institutions, wafers, wine, statues, saints, rosaries, incense, chants, lighting candles, or fallible men who declare themselves infallible, would reveal His truth. He said the Holy Spirit would reveal truth. IF the Holy Spirit resides in you. And if you are saved, you are a member of the body of Christ, and the Holy Spirit resides in you.

[MarkBsnr]

I'm humble, I'm no theologian.

No doubt about it. Keep working on the moustache.

[CynicalBear]

Of course you would like us to believe you don’t worship her.

Let’s take the prayer of Prayer of Pope Pius XII.
[http://catholicism.about.com/od/tothevirginmary/qt/Honor_Immacula.htm]

I’ll use just the bolded excerpts from the prayer.

we cast ourselves into your arms

1 Peter 5:7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you. (When did we need to replace God with Mary?)

confident of finding in your most loving heart appeasement of our ardent desires, and a safe harbor from the tempests which beset us on every side.

Hebrews 4:15-16 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need. (once again Catholics replacing Christ with Mary)

O crystal fountain of faith

Romans 12:3 according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. or "a measure of faith." (but Mary is the “fountain of faith” for Catholics)

Lily of all holiness

1 Samuel 2:2 There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God. (for Catholics however, “all holiness” is given to Mary)

Conqueress of evil and death

Hosea 13:14 I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes. (but Catholics claim it was Mary who conquered death)

Convert the wicked

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 Of sin, because they believe not on me; (Catholics have even replaced the Holy Spirit with Mary)

Statement by catholic Bishop Liqouri “.......We often more quickly obtain what we ask by calling on the name of Mary than by invoking that of Jesus.....” She...is our Salvation, our Life, our Hope, our Counsel, our Refuge, our Help”

Need I go on? Catholics have replaced virtually every attribute and working of God and given that to Mary in their worship.

[Heart-Rest]

You wrote, "Which is exactly what the RCC does. Feeds the 5 senses. And deceives people into believing that the 5 senses lead to the spirit."

My question to you is (in other words), do you also believe that your spirit gets fed by the senses, such as by reading (sense of sight) the written Word of God, or hearing (sense of hearing) the written Word of God?

[Zuriel]

**(In fact, you should never dishonor anyone’s mother.)**

Ditto, but I would never bow to a statue of anyone’s mother.

Jesus Christ knew exactly what he was doing when he made sure his written Word would have no quotes from him directly addressing Mary as ‘mother’, for he knew that vain men and women would soon elevate her to near god status.

What Mary ‘mothered’, hungered, thirsted, even died and was buried. “But him hath GOD raised up”.

[CynicalBear]

>> Do you think Jesus honored his own mother?<<

Luke 11:27-28 27 And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked. 28 But he said, Nay rather, (Greek Menounge: nay surely, nay rather) blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

>>While (to my knowledge) no one has ever stated that a person must honor Mary in order to gain salvation,<<

'Therefore, if some should presume to think in their hearts otherwise than we have defined (which God forbid), they shall know and thoroughly understand that they are by their own judgment condemned, have made shipwreck concerning the faith, and fallen away from the unity of the Church; and, moreover, that they, by this very act, subject themselves to the penalties ordained by law if, by word or writing, or any other external means, they dare to signify what they think in their heart' (The Decree of Pope Pius IX on the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin Mary, From the Bull Ineffabilis Deus [A.D. 1854]. Taken from Schaff, The Creeds of Christendom, 2:212).