Posted on 06/12/2012 10:25:26 AM PDT by marshmallow
NEW YORK — A conflict that has entangled the Vatican, American bishops and the largest umbrella group for U.S. nuns may seem to have erupted suddenly, but it actually has its roots in decades-old disputes over Roman Catholic teaching.
The headlines came in April, when the Vatican orthodoxy watchdog, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, concluded that the Leadership Conference of Women Religious had strayed far from authentic doctrine and gave three American bishops the authority to overhaul the organization.
The board for the nuns' group responded by calling the Vatican's investigation flawed and its conclusions unsubstantiated. Top executives of the sisters' organization brought their concerns to a meeting Tuesday in Rome with Vatican officials.
The meeting was conducted in an atmosphere of "openness and cordiality," according to a Vatican statement. But the church insisted that the nuns LCWR must promote church unity by stressing core church teachings.
On the face of it, the Vatican's timing is baffling. America's religious sisters are far from the height of their influence. Their numbers have plummeted from about 180,000 in 1965 to 56,000 last year, according to the Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate. Their average age is now above 70. Many orders go for years without any new candidates.
But the contretemps can be explained in the context of long-simmering differences that have also divided the broader church into opposing camps of theological liberals and conservatives — with many Catholics caught in between. Each side is acting consistently according to long-established priorities.
(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...
Its about time. Whether its nuns or certain bishops or certain "Catholic" universities, they are straying further and further into Godless, hedonistic Socialism. Half the Catholic colleges in America should forfeit their designation, including the one I went to (Georgetown). And any time you see a rally for more government handouts, that includes Communists, you will find some nuns. There are way too many who are hard core Socialists.
Interesting that their numbers began to plummet at about the same time that Vatican II was fully mis-implemented. I guess the women were more interested in devoting their life to Jesus rather than liberation theology and folk Masses.
Exactly-—the Church became irrelevant after the Marxists infiltrated and socialized their messages of “Marxist social justice—as if it can exist”, tolerance to sin, and adopt the Marxist radical egalitarianism which makes human beings into godless animals who can be interchangeable-—no roles for man and women—no Design in human beings. Girls can be altar boys....etc., cr*pola. Feminize the Church—show that women and men are the exact same, contrary to science and logic.
It is a disaster what the Marxist infiltration did to the Catholic Doctrine and how it enshrined sin and Godless Marxism to such an extent it allowed molestation of children.
The Church has to get back to its doctrines of subsidiarity and that charity can never be given by centralized governments. Their Marxists beliefs have to be expunged-—the idea that governments are good for “universal health care” , etc. They should know better and teach the Truth.
The idea of supporting the poor with services has unfortunately been co-opted by the liberal nuns and ultimately led them astray IMHO. It is all delusion promoted by the DNC and so many stupid women have taken the bait/brainwashing.
Its a little extreme to call the Church “irrelevant”.
Marxist influence is still present in the Church, but by no means does it dominate the Church. The very upper levels of the Church leadership are quite conservative, as is the majority of practicing Catholics and some of the societies. Sadly, many (not all) bishops and priests lean heavily to the left.
There is a lot of conflict with the leadership in Rome and US Bishops. Which is related to the conflict with the nuns.
opps. My corrections from my earlier post.
oops. My corrections from my earlier post.
The nuns never would have strayed so far from Catholic theology and dogma if the bishops had not endorsed their drift. The US bishops, as a group, have been “social liberals” who were uncomfortable with orthodoxy. The Catholic church in America slipped into schism from Rome decades ago. John Paul II’s health + his inability to understand what was happening were not helpful. Eastern European priests and bishops looked to Rome as the Rock and fidelity to Rome was their rallying cry.
The nuns never would have strayed so far from Catholic theology and dogma if the bishops had not endorsed their drift. The US bishops, as a group, have been “social liberals” who were uncomfortable with orthodoxy. The Catholic church in America slipped into schism from Rome decades ago. John Paul II’s health + his inability to understand what was happening were not helpful. Eastern European priests and bishops looked to Rome as the Rock and fidelity to Rome was their rallying cry.
The nuns never would have strayed so far from Catholic theology and dogma if the bishops had not endorsed their drift. The US bishops, as a group, have been “social liberals” who were uncomfortable with orthodoxy. The Catholic church in America slipped into schism from Rome decades ago. John Paul II’s health + his inability to understand what was happening were not helpful. Eastern European priests and bishops looked to Rome as the Rock and fidelity to Rome was their rallying cry.
True-—I love what comes out of the Conservative Vatican, but the Bishops in America and South America—some were/are very radical Marxists. (Marxist Catholic is an oxymoron). The Church became an advocate (with “social justice” of totalitarian Marxism—opposite of subsidiarity— which promotes destruction of the family unit—makes abortion common and homosexual marriage “good”. (I do love Cardinal Timothy Dolen, BTW)
Now, I am also referring to vocal Catholic politicians who should have been excommunicated decades ago-—like Edward Kennedy—and his Marxist promotion of abortion and Centralized education indoctrination and their “tolerance” of evil homosexual behavior—not only in the priesthood, but in the culture—to allow young children to be brainwashed by homosexuals with “Days of Silence”—which actually glorify evil behavior and normalizes it in the eyes of children.
The Catholic Church became irrelevant in Europe and America in the 70’s when they hid from the culture wars and did not confront the evil being promoted in all of culture. Pastor Bonhoeffer referred to this as “religionless Christianity”. To be silent in the face of evil, is itself, evil. The Church allowed Edward Kennedy to be the face of “Catholic” and a Marxist to the core—distorted the whole Catholic message for Americans who saw him as a face of Catholicism because he wasn’t excommunicated for his Marxist promotion in government policies which are anathema to freedom and religion.
I am also talking about the little parish communities which have vacant churches and closed schools. Prior to Vatican II we had a vibrant parish which is filled NOW with a few old white people and almost devoid of teenagers and young adults-—except a few “Mexican families” but in the tradition of Marxist dialectics, is separated from the evil, racist “whites”—into their “Spanish Mass” so that they can be treated “separately” and learn that they are too dumb to learn English and the whites are unChristian anyway. Divide and destroy-—the Marxist application to this universal Church.
The Catholic Church has got to eradicate all the Marxism that has distorted the Christian message. Until they do-—and I know there is a schism brewing with the “Marxist” so-called Catholics—they will continue to be irrelevant and lose members and die. There is no such think as “Marxist Catholic”.
Marxism was a factor, but more immediate was the influence of the adherents of Theilhard de Chardin, and his efforts to re-interpret Christianity in terms of evolutionary theory. Even liberals such as Maritain were aghast. And on the eve of the end of the Council he published a book in which he chastized the reformers for “genuflecting to the world.” The best short description I have ever seen for what they reformers were doing.
Years later, Brian Moore wrote a short book, afterwards made into a movie, which sticks in my mind. He depicted a Church wholly taken over by the reformers, one in which not only the Latin mass but all traditional devotions had been surpressed. For instance, Lourdes had been closed. The Vatican was faced by a sticky situation, where a small group of monks in Ireland, led by their prior, refused to go along. An investigator was sent to check on the matter. That all this did not happen I attribute to the grace of God.
IAC, it did not occur to me for many years, that what we have seen since Vatican II is a second Reformation. EXCEPT that in this case, the “protestants,” have stayed within the Church,sought to gain control her and to marginalize traditional Catholicism.
——I guess the women were more interested in devoting their life to Jesus rather than liberation theology and folk Masses.——
Shocking, huh?
I was born in ‘62, so there were still a few old-school sisters teaching when I went through CCD. The difference between the sisters and lay teachers was dramatic. Catholic kids today are missing out. Expose your young kids to EWTN and Catholic Answers as they get older.
On a positive note, the orthodox orders are flourishing.
Don’t blame the Mexicans. And don’t forget in the pre-Vat II Church were had all these ethnic parishes. By Dad was baptized in St.Joe Church in San Antonio, where they still had sermons in German until the late ‘40s. Lots of old people never did learn English.
But the irony is that in such Churches ONLY the sermons were in the venacular. All of us, German, Irish, Poles, French, Spanish, prayed in Latin. Brought us all together. And we knew most of what was prayed out-loud in Latin. How many did not know what the words of the Gloria meant? As for the Pater Noster, several years ago, I was attending a Latin “new mass,” and when we said the Pater Noster, the words fell from my lips, out of my memory, like water flowing out of a cup.
Exactly-—I don’t blame the Mexicans, at all. I am blaming Marxist ideology that seeped into Catholicism—the destruction of the “Latin” mass which united instead of divided. The beautiful tradition of Latin Mass—being ejected as if traditions mean nothing, when they mean everything and add richness and intellectual flowering and growth. For my childhood, learning Latin made me smarter and more knowledgeable of the past. It broadened my concept of cultures and history.
Marxism erases all traditions and history so they can shape all the plastic minds with lies...they divide and will conquer, if allowed the minds of the young. Allowing Mass in all the different languages (other than the gospel) was a major mistake and a divider and an affirmation that traditions don’t matter.
Expectation of the priests—that people who come to a nation have a duty to integrate so they can fully participate in government—should not cater to keeping people separate from the host society. It is the discrimination of low expectations which destroy the next generations and incites victimhood instead of the “I Can!” original, thankful immigrants to this nation. In America—where we were a Christian nation and unity important—this integration should have been easy—compared to non-Christian nations. It is evil to promote separate, Balkanized groups inside the US which is the most free and Christian country of all time—at least, it used to be until all the Balkinization and victimhood socialism destroyed subsidiarity and the family unit-—under the watchful eye of the Church.
It goes back two or three decades at least.
I remember an in-law of mine who is a nun telling the family that she and her friends sent back their tickets to see John Paul II in Central Park, because of their disputes with his philosophy.
But five decades ago, at that same school, with girls being taught by that same order, it was not so.
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She talked on Coast to Coast Am about how her "meditation" will help you evolve to a higher power. So the nuns have now moved from far left liberalism and are now into Roswell/Ufo/Men In Black conspiracy territory.
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