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What is Biblical Prophecy? What Biblical Prophecy is NOT, and What It Really IS
CatholicResources.org ^ | February 12, 2012. | Felix Just, S.J., Ph.D.

Posted on 07/14/2012 10:36:38 AM PDT by Salvation

What is Biblical Prophecy?
by Felix Just, S.J., Ph.D. 

Introduction: What Biblical Prophecy is NOT, and What It Really IS:

Contrary to what many fundamentalist preachers or late-night radio hosts would have you believe, biblical prophecy is not primarily about "predicting the future" or finding clues in the Bible that correspond to people or events in our own day and age! The prophets of Ancient Israel did not look into some kind of crystal ball and see events happening thousands of years after their own lifetimes. The books they wrote do not contain hidden coded messages for people living in the 20th or 21st centuries!

Rather, biblical prophets were mainly speaking to and writing for the people of their own time. They were challenging people of their own world, especially their political rulers, to remain faithful to God's commandments and/or to repent and turn back to God if they had strayed. They were conveying messages from God, who had called or commissioned them, rather than speaking on their own initiative or authority. However, because the biblical prophets were transmitting messages on behalf of God (as Jews and Christians believe), much of what they wrote for their own time is clearly also relevant for people living in the modern world. The overall message of faith and repentance is timeless and applicable in all ages and cultures.

To understand what biblical prophecy really is, let's look more closely at the origins, definitions, and uses of some key biblical words.

Biblical Vocabulary:

In the Hebrew Bible, the word for "prophet" is usually nabi' (lit. "spokesperson"; used over 300 times!), while the related feminine noun nebi'ah ("prophetess") occurs only rarely. Both words are derived from the root verb naba' ("to prophesy; to speak on behalf of another"). The root meaning of "prophet" is clearly expressed in several biblical passages, such as when God tells Moses, "See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron shall be your prophet" (Exod 7:1). Aaron's role was not to predict the future, but rather to be the spokesperson or mouthpiece of Moses, who evidently did not wish to speak to Pharaoh directly (see Exod 4:10-17). Later, God also tells Moses, "I will raise up for [the Israelites] a prophet like you from among your own people; I will put my words in the mouth of the prophet who shall speak to them everything that I command" (Deut 18:18).

Two other Hebrew words (ro'eh and hozeh) are closely related, but usually translated "seer" rather than "prophet." The word ro'eh seems to be older, as explained in the Bible itself: "Formerly in Israel, anyone who went to inquire of God would say, 'Come, let us go to the seer' (ro'eh); for the one who is now called a prophet (nabi') was formerly called a seer (ro'eh)" (1 Sam 9:9). In contrast, hozeh seems to be a newer word, since it is used mostly in the Chronicles. All three words are used of three different people in 1 Chronicles 29:29: "Now the acts of King David, from first to last, are written in the records of the seer (ro’eh) Samuel, and in the records of the prophet (nabi’) Nathan, and in the records of the seer (hozeh) Gad." In other texts, nabi' and hozeh are practically synonymous and are sometimes even used for the same people.

Hebrew English Torah/Law Frmr. Proph. Lttr. Proph. Writings HB Total
naba' to prophesy 3 17 87 9 116
nabi' prophet; spokesperson 14 100 156 47 317
nebi'ah prophetess 1 2 2 1 6
nebu'ah prophecy; message - - - 4 4
hozeh seer - 2 4 10 16
ro'eh seer - 4 1 6 11
Note: The four sections of the Hebrew Bible (HB) are the Torah, Former Prophets, Latter Prophets, and other Writings.

In the biblical Greek of both the Septuagint (the ancient Greek translation of the Old Testament, abbreviated LXX) and the New Testament (originally written in Koine Greek), the word for "prophet" is profhthV (prophetes), which stems from two other words: pro + phemi. The verb phemi simply means "to speak." The preposition pro has many different possible meanings, depending on the context in which it is used; it can mean "before" (which is why many people think "prophets" are those who "speak before" something happens, thus "pre-dicting" it), but it can also mean "for" or "on behalf of" (which is why most biblical scholars insist that "prophets" are those who "speak on behalf of God"). Which of these two possible meanings is more appropriate should be judged from the actual usage in the Bible.

Greek English Pent. Hist. Wisd. Proph. LXX Total Mark Matt Luke John Acts Paul Hebr Cath Rev NT Total
profhteia prophecy - 6 7 3 16 - 1 - - - 9 - 2 7 19
profhtein to prophesy 3 22 4 87 116 2 4 2 1 4 11 - 2 2 28
profhthV prophet 15 172 18 120 325 6 37 29 14 30 14 2 4 8 144
profhtikoV prophetic - - - - 0 - - - - - 1 - 1 - 2
profhtiV prophetess 1 3 - 1 4 - - 1 - - - - - 1 2
yeudoprofhthV false prophet - - - 10 10 1 3 1 - 1 - - 2 3 11
Note: The four sections of the Septuagint (LXX) are the Pentateuch, Historical Books, Wisdom/Poetic Books, and Prophetic Books.
For the subdivision of the NT books, see my overview of the NT Canon.

Prophetic Words:

A careful study of the hundreds of relevant texts shows that biblical prophets rarely speak about future events as if they were inevitable, but much more often transmit various kinds of messages on behalf of God to the people, conveying God's interpretation of the past, present, and future aspects of people's lives. Thus, a "prophet" in the Bible is primarily a "spokesperson for God," someone who receives messages from God and conveys them to other people. If a prophet speaks words that are not from God, he or she is considered a false prophet or sometimes called a prophet of another god (e.g. "prophets of Baal" in the OT).

The messages transmitted by the biblical prophets are not only or primarily about the future, but about the past and present as well. They provide interpretations--from God's perspective--about past events, present circumstances, as well as future possibilities. Note that I say "future possibilities" rather than "future events," because when biblical prophets speak about the future, it is usually not about what will inevitably happen, but rather about what might happen, depending on how people choose to react and act: whether they listen to the prophetic message and live their lives accordingly, or ignore the words of the prophets and suffer the consequences.

What can we learn from this story? At least one crucial point about the nature of biblical "prophecy," namely, that even when prophets speak about the future, they are not predicting an inevitable, unalterable future! Rather, they are warning people about a possible future that might come upon them if they continue in their evil ways and do not turn back to God. But if the people do listen to the prophet's message and react appropriately, with prayer, repentance, and faithfulness to God, then the future will look very different than what the prophet had foretold!

Of course, not all biblical texts make the conditional nature of the future so explicit; the two alternatives ("If you don't repent, here's what will happen; but if you do repent, then God will be merciful to you.") are not always clearly stated, but might remain implicit. Some texts may even presuppose that people will not repent, and thus will be punished for their wickedness; but if they do, even contrary to all expectations, then the disasters foretold by the prophets will not come about after all!

The role of biblical prophets as spokespersons for God, speaking God's words primarily to people of their own time (and only secondarily to people of future generations), can also be seen in the various "introductory formulas" found so often in the prophetic books of the Bible. The messages God wishes to convey through the prophets to the people are often preceded by some very familiar phrases:

Prophetic Deeds:

Moreover, when biblical prophets convey God's messages to the people, they do so not just in words but sometimes also in deeds, not just by speaking or writing, but also by performing various symbolic and/or miraculous actions. Examples are found throughout the Bible, esp. in the stories surrounding the prophets Elijah and Elisha in the books of Kings and in the book of the prophet Ezekiel:


The Prophetic Books of the Hebrew Bible / Old Testament:

Which books of the Bible are considered "prophetic"? The answer depends on which Bible you mean! Jews, Protestants, Catholics, and Orthodox Christians all use slightly different versions of the Bible, count different books among the "prophets," and arrange them in different orders in their respective Bibles.

So What?

The categorization of a biblical book can significantly affect how you interpret it, especially in the case of the Book of Daniel. Is this a "prophetic" book much like all the other prophets, as some Protestant Christians emphasize? Or is it somewhat "prophetic" but more accurately described as an "apocalyptic" book, as other Protestants and most Catholics maintain? Or is it not really "prophetic" at all, but rather belonging to a different literary genre that should be read differently, as most Jews agree?

Moreover, most biblical scholars emphasize that in order to interpret the writings of the biblical prophets properly, one must understand the historical context in which the prophets lived, since they were primarily addressing the people and political situations of their own day. To complicate matters, the canonical order of the prophetic books (how they are arranged in our Bibles) is not the same as the historical order (when they were originally written):

Era / Century BCE

Prophetic Books [with other named Prophets]

Pre-Monarchy (13th–11th Cent.) Books of Moses, Joshua, Judges, beginning of 1 Samuel
Early/United Monarchy (10th Cent.) 1 & 2 Samuel, most of 1 Kings [incl. Nathan & Ahijah]
Divided Monarchy (9th Cent.) rest of 1 & 2 Kings [esp. Elijah & Elisha]
End of Northern Kingdom of Israel (8th Cent.) Amos, Hosea, Micah, Isaiah 1-39
End of Southern Kingdom of Judah (7th Cent.) Zephaniah, Nahum, Habakkuk, most of Jeremiah
Babylonian Exile (597/587–520 B.C.) some of Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Isaiah 40-55
Early Post-Exilic Restoration (late 6th - early 5th Cent.) Haggai, Zechariah 1-8; [also Ezra & Nehemiah]
Persian Era (5th–4th Cent.) Isaiah 56-66, Jonah, Zechariah 9-14, Obadiah, Joel, Malachi
Hellenistic Era: Ptolemies (3rd Cent.) Daniel 1-6 (more prophetic)
Hellenistic Era: Seleucids (early 2nd Cent.) Daniel 7-12 (more apocalyptic)

Prophecy and Prophets in Ancient Israel:

In addition to the prophets who have separate biblical books named after them (and who are sometimes also mentioned in other biblical books), quite a few other people are also called "prophet" or "prophetess" in the Hebrew Bible. Many of them are true prophets (who speak on behalf of the God of Israel), while some are false prophets (who serve other gods of other nations). Moreover, whole groups of prophets (lit. called "the sons of the prophets") appear in certain biblical stories. The following are some of the most important individuals referred to as "prophets" of God:

Although all of these prophets speak on behalf of God, rather than on their own authority, how they came to be prophets or when God first commissioned them for this role is only rarely narrated or alluded to in the Bible. The best know stories include:

False prophets, or prophets serving other gods, are sometimes also mentioned in the Hebrew Bible. Several biblical texts mention explicit criteria for distinguishing true vs. false prophets (Deut 13:1-5; 18:20-22), while other texts name certain groups or individuals as false prophets:

On a more artistic note, see the woodcut illustrations of several of the prophets in the Doré Bible Gallery.


Prophecy and Prophets in the New Testament and Early Christianity:

Most of the NT references to "prophets" (mentioned 144 times in the NT, 116 of which are in the Gospels and Acts) are to the prophets of the OT, either generically as a group or often explicitly naming individual prophets (esp. Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Elijah, but sometimes also Jonah, Daniel, Elisha, Joel, Moses, Samuel, and even King David!). Some NT passages speak of the role of prophets in general, such as when Jesus says, "Whoever welcomes a prophet in the name of a prophet will receive a prophet's reward" (Matt 10:41).

In addition to these references to the ancient Hebrew prophets, the NT also refers to certain people of its own day as "prophets," including John the Baptist, Jesus, and many early Christian leaders, either individually or generically:

In addition to all these individuals who are named prophets, the gift of "prophecy" (Gk. profhteia / propheteia) and the action of "prophesying" (Gk. profhteuw / propheteuo) are very important in the life of the early Christian communities, as seen in various NT texts:

(This page is still under construction; more will be added some day, although I cannot "predict" when!  :-)



TOPICS: Catholic; History; Judaism; Mainline Protestant; Orthodox Christian; Theology
KEYWORDS: bible; catholic; prophecy; prophets
Jewish and Christian Bibles: A Comparative Chart

Jewish and Christian Bibles: A Comparative Chart
by Felix Just, S.J., Ph.D.

Introduction:
Although the "New Testament" contains the same twenty-seven books for almost all Christians, there are some major and important differences between the "Hebrew Bible" (HB) used by Jews and different versions of the "Old Testament" (OT) used by various Christian churches and denominations:
  • The foundational texts are different:
    • Jewish Bibles are based on the HB;
    • the OT section in Christian Bibles is arranged according to the order of books in the "Septuagint" (LXX), the ancient Greek version of the Jewish scriptures;
    • however, the translations of individual OT books in Christian Bibles are now usually based on the texts of the HB.
  • The total number of biblical books is different:
    • Jews count 24, Protestants 39, Catholics 46, Orthodox Christians up to 53;
    • certain books of the HB are subdivided in the LXX; e.g., "The Twelve" minor prophets are considered one book in the HB, while the LXX and Christian Bibles count these as twelve separate books;
    • the LXX contains several additional books not found in the HB; Orthodox and Catholic Christians regard these additional books as part of the OT canon (calling them the "Deuterocanonical Books"), while Jews and most Protestant Christians do not (calling them the "Apocrypha").
  • The arrangement of the categories of books is different:
    • e.g. the "Latter Prophets" come before the "Writings" in the HB, but all the "Prophets" come after the "Wisdom" literature in the Christian OT.
      the order of the "Prophets" is also different between the LXX and the Catholic and Protestant OT.
  • The titles of some of the books are different:
    • e.g. "Samuel" of the HB is split up into "1 Kingdoms" and "2 Kingdoms" in the LXX, which are renamed "1 Samuel" and "2 Samuel" in most Christian Bibles.
  • The categorization of some books is different:
    • e.g. several of the books categorized as "Writings" in the HB are placed among the "Historical Books" or the "Prophets" in LXX and the Christian OT; the displacements of Ruth and Esther, Ezra-Nehemiah and Chronicles (1&2), and Lamentations and Daniel are indicated with highlighted colors in the chart below.
Notes:
  • HB = Hebrew Bible; LXX = Septuagint; OT = Old Testament; see my Biblical Glossary for detailed explanations of all these terms.
  • Books in CAPITALS are found in Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic Bibles, but not in most Jewish or Protestant Bibles.
  • Books in Italics are also in the LXX and considered biblical by various Orthodox Christians, but NOT by Jews or most other Christians.

Comparative Chart:
 
HEBREW BIBLE
(a.k.a. Mikra or TaNaK/Tanakh)
ORTHODOX BIBLES
(based on larger versions of LXX;
exact contents & editions vary)
CATHOLIC BIBLE
(based on Alexandrian canon of LXX;
with seven Deuterocanonical books)

PROTESTANT BIBLE
(retains Catholic order, but
seven Apocrypha removed)

Torah / Books of Moses
1) Bereshit / Genesis
2) Shemot / Exodus
3) VaYikra / Leviticus
4) BaMidbar / Numbers
5) Devarim / Deuteronomy
 
Pentateuch
1) Genesis
2) Exodus
3) Leviticus
4) Numbers
5) Deuteronomy
Pentateuch (Law)
1) Genesis
2) Exodus
3) Leviticus
4) Numbers
5) Deuteronomy
Law (Pentateuch)
1) Genesis
2) Exodus
3) Leviticus
4) Numbers
5) Deuteronomy
Nevi'im / Former Prophets
6) Joshua
7) Judges
8) Samuel (1&2)
9) Kings (1&2)
 
Historical Books
6) Joshua
7) Judges
8) Ruth
9) 1 Kingdoms (= 1 Sam)
10) 2 Kingdoms (= 2 Sam)
11) 3 Kingdoms (= 1 Kings)
12) 4 Kingdoms (= 2 Kings)
13) 1 Chronicles
14) 2 Chronicles
15) 1 Esdras
16) 2 Esdras (=Erza + Nehemiah)
17)
Esther (longer version)
18) JUDITH
19) TOBIT
 
20) 1 MACCABEES
21) 2 MACCABEES
22) 3 Maccabees
23) 4 Maccabees

 
Historical Books
6) Joshua
7) Judges
8) Ruth
9) 1 Samuel
10) 2 Samuel
11) 1 Kings
12) 2 Kings
13) 1 Chronicles
14) 2 Chronicles

15) Ezra
16) Nehemiah
17) TOBIT
18) JUDITH
19) Esther (longer version)
20) 1 MACCABEES
21) 2 MACCABEES
Historical Books
6) Joshua
7) Judges
8) Ruth
9) 1 Samuel
10) 2 Samuel
11) 1 Kings
12) 2 Kings
13) 1 Chronicles
14) 2 Chronicles

15) Ezra
16) Nehemiah


17) Esther (shorter version)
Nevi'im / Latter Prophets
10) Isaiah
11) Jeremiah
12) Ezekiel
13) The Book of the Twelve:
       Hosea, Joel,
       Amos, Obadiah,
       Jonah, Micah,
       Nahum, Habakkuk,
       Zephaniah, Haggai,
       Zechariah, Malachi
 
Khetuvim / Writings
14) Psalms (150)
15) Proverbs
16) Job
17) Song of Solomon
18) Ruth
19) Lamentations
20) Ecclesiastes
21) Esther (shorter version)
22) Daniel (12 chapters)
23) Ezra-Nehemiah
24) Chronicles (1&2)
Poetic Books
24) Psalms (151)
25)    Odes (w/ Prayer of Manasseh)
26) Proverbs
27) Ecclesiastes
28) Song of Solomon
29) Job
30) WISDOM of Solomon
31) SIRACH, a.k.a. Ecclesiasticus
32) Psalms of Solomon
Wisdom Books
22) Job
23) Psalms (150)
24) Proverbs
25) Ecclesiastes
26) Song of Solomon
27) WISDOM of Solomon
28) SIRACH, a.k.a. Ecclesiasticus
Wisdom Books
18) Job
19) Psalms (150)
20) Proverbs
21) Ecclesiastes
22) Song of Solomon
. Prophets
33) Hosea
34) Amos
35) Micah
36) Joel
37) Obadiah
38) Jonah
39) Nahum
40) Habakkuk
41) Zephaniah
42) Haggai
43) Zechariah
44) Malachi
 
45) Isaiah
46) Jeremiah
47)     BARUCH
48)     Lamentations
49)     LETTER of JEREMIAH
50) Ezekiel
51) Daniel (2 chapters listed separately):
52)     SUSANNA
53)     BEL and the DRAGON
Prophets
29) Isaiah
30) Jeremiah
31) Lamentations
32) BARUCH (incl. LETTER of JER.)
33) Ezekiel
34) Daniel (14 chapters)

35) Hosea
36) Joel
37) Amos
38) Obadiah
39) Jonah
40) Micah
41) Nahum
42) Habakkuk
43) Zephaniah
44) Haggai
45) Zechariah
46) Malachi
Prophets
23) Isaiah
24) Jeremiah
25) Lamentations
 
26) Ezekiel
27) Daniel (only 12 chapters)

28) Hosea
29) Joel
30) Amos
31) Obadiah
32) Jonah
33) Micah
34) Nahum
35) Habakkuk
36) Zephaniah
37) Haggai
38) Zechariah
39) Malachi

1 posted on 07/14/2012 10:36:47 AM PDT by Salvation
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To: nickcarraway; NYer; ELS; Pyro7480; livius; ArrogantBustard; Catholicguy; RobbyS; marshmallow; ...

Studying the propheys Ping!


2 posted on 07/14/2012 10:41:02 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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bttt


3 posted on 07/14/2012 10:47:29 AM PDT by Matchett-PI ("A right can't come at the expense of another" ~ Walter Williams)
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To: Salvation
Contrary to what many fundamentalist preachers or late-night radio hosts would have you believe, biblical prophecy is not primarily about "predicting the future" or finding clues in the Bible that correspond to people or events in our own day and age!

Oddly enough, most "fundamentalist preachers" don't teach this, either.

4 posted on 07/14/2012 11:08:11 AM PDT by Yashcheritsiy (not voting for the lesser of two evils)
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To: Salvation

Oops

Studying the prophets Ping!


5 posted on 07/14/2012 11:39:03 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Yashcheritsiy

Nevertheless, a good foundational piece.


6 posted on 07/14/2012 11:40:14 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Yashcheritsiy
There are only two kinds of prophecy in the Bible. Prophecy that HAS been fulfilled,
and prophecy that HASN'T been fulfilled.
What's so hard to understand about that?

Most of the Book of Revelation is Prophecy future.
Daniel, Isaiah, Ezekiel and many of the other prophets
as well as the New Testament clearly define prophecy
that pertains to the end times, or the Day of the Lord, or in the last days, etc.

This egghead seems to be trying to create a problem where there isn't one.

7 posted on 07/14/2012 11:57:32 AM PDT by trickyricky
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To: Salvation

It is unsurprising that a Catholic writer would deny the authenticity of the Bible. The Book of Daniel, for example, was written by Daniel during the Babylonian exile if one believes the scripture. Instead, it lists it as being written after Alexander, most probably since Daniel predicted the rise of Alexander and the splitting of his kingdom into 4.

Prophecy is indeed any message from God, but God gave to men also expectations of the future, of which Daniel’s 70 weeks was one of the greatest and most exact. Jesus also predicted the fall of Jerusalem, which would not happen until 70ad.


8 posted on 07/14/2012 1:14:49 PM PDT by RaisingCain
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To: Salvation

Salvation, have you heard of the book “Isiah 9:10”? Read about it on Spirit Daily, kind of scary.


9 posted on 07/14/2012 1:23:19 PM PDT by diamond6 (Check out: http://www.biblechristiansociety.com/home.php and learn about the faith.)
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To: Salvation
Studying the propheys Ping!

Homey likes the propheys!!! :)

10 posted on 07/14/2012 1:31:28 PM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: Salvation

I did not read the whole thing because it is too long but was the telling of Jerusalem being restored in the latter days for the people back then?

We saw it happen, and even those people who don,t from nothing about the scriptures can see it.

And also
Daniel 12
1
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

3
And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

4
But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

This world has seen at least 95 percent of the increase of knowledge in our life time.

People of my age saw their dads or even older brothers walking behind horses or mules and some even did it them selves.

The famous movie stars were getting from the pacific to the Atlantic on coal powered trains or in the old cars, an old hotel in Gallup new Mexico well knew most of the stars because they had to make two or three stops en route.

Only the better off people had electricity and running water in the west even in the 1940s

No tv until 1948 or 49 and that was just for a few and commercial airlines a little later.

I believe Danial was talking about the times we live in.


11 posted on 07/14/2012 2:20:45 PM PDT by ravenwolf
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To: Salvation
Nevertheless, a good foundational piece.

Actually more lies, half-truths, distortions and sophistry from the RCC cult.

12 posted on 07/14/2012 3:17:02 PM PDT by SVTCobra03 (You can never have enough friends, horsepower or ammunition.)
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To: RaisingCain

Where did you get the idea that Catholics don’t read/deny Daniel?

It’s in my Catholic Bible. Are you sure you weren’t talking about something else. Look closely. I was surprised by it too.


13 posted on 07/14/2012 3:22:43 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: RaisingCain

OK, second time through. Who doeos the writer say denies Daniel?


14 posted on 07/14/2012 3:23:41 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: SVTCobra03

I don’t see half truths or I wouldn’t have posted it. Any specific?


15 posted on 07/14/2012 3:25:49 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

Immediately after the section where it makes the point about when the books were written. It lists the book of Daniel, just as an easy example, as being written after Alexander’s empire was split. It was written by Daniel during the Babylonian captivity.

Era / Century BCE
Prophetic Books [with other named Prophets]

Pre-Monarchy (13th–11th Cent.) Books of Moses, Joshua, Judges, beginning of 1 Samuel
Early/United Monarchy (10th Cent.) 1 & 2 Samuel, most of 1 Kings [incl. Nathan & Ahijah]
Divided Monarchy (9th Cent.) rest of 1 & 2 Kings [esp. Elijah & Elisha]
End of Northern Kingdom of Israel (8th Cent.) Amos, Hosea, Micah, Isaiah 1-39
End of Southern Kingdom of Judah (7th Cent.) Zephaniah, Nahum, Habakkuk, most of Jeremiah
Babylonian Exile (597/587–520 B.C.) some of Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Isaiah 40-55
Early Post-Exilic Restoration (late 6th - early 5th Cent.) Haggai, Zechariah 1-8; [also Ezra & Nehemiah]
Persian Era (5th–4th Cent.) Isaiah 56-66, Jonah, Zechariah 9-14, Obadiah, Joel, Malachi
Hellenistic Era: Ptolemies (3rd Cent.) Daniel 1-6 (more prophetic)
Hellenistic Era: Seleucids (early 2nd Cent.) Daniel 7-12 (more apocalyptic)

This is a direct contradiction of the testimony of scripture.


16 posted on 07/14/2012 4:15:00 PM PDT by RaisingCain
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To: Salvation
This article is written by a proper Jesuit. Therefore, a potentially worthwhile interpretation of his wonderfully arcane analytical thought processes could possibly be that God did not use biblical prophecy to tell man of future events, except when He did.

As a survivor of years of Scholastic training at the hands of the Benedictines, I shall be happy to interpret Jesuitical writings for 50 Drachma per line, with a 50% surcharge if the line is in a dead language. 10% discount to FReepers, of course.

As far as "Fundamentalist" preachers go, I might, "Might," I say, be tempted to sincerely doubt that this august member of The Society of Jesus has actually ever listened to one. Rather he may be setting up the "Fundamentalist Preacher" as a theological 'straw man.'

One might find it a fairly good idea to always consult a Benedictine-trained chap such as myself, et cum grano salis, when trying to wade through the abstruse theological writings of our brothers, the Jesuits.
Pax Vobiscum

17 posted on 07/14/2012 4:19:50 PM PDT by Kenny Bunk (So, Scalia, Alito, Thomas, and FU Roberts can't figure out if Obama is a Natural Born Citizen?)
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To: Kenny Bunk
One might find it a fairly good idea to always consult a Benedictine-trained chap such as myself, et cum grano salis, when trying to wade through the abstruse theological writings of our brothers, the Jesuits. Pax Vobiscum

The Jesuits, formed by St Ignatius of Loyala, to spread the Gospel and then to stem the Protestant tide with the true Faith have wavered from their original calling. They've come a long Universalist Unitarian way, baby.

18 posted on 07/14/2012 4:28:16 PM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: MarkBsnr
stem the Protestant tide,

Well I'll say this for Fr. Just, S.J., Ph.D.: his article would probably get him lynched in Texas. St. Ignatius might be happy about that. But I catch your drift on the S.J.s in general. I sent one of my brighter kids to them and he came back somewhere to the Left of Trotsky and talks like Barbra Streisand.

Now about my brother ... who became a Unity minister ... splain that!

at least I can get you a deal on that bumper sticker.

19 posted on 07/14/2012 4:44:07 PM PDT by Kenny Bunk (So, Scalia, Alito, Thomas, and FU Roberts can't figure out if Obama is a Natural Born Citizen?)
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To: Salvation
They were challenging people of their own world, especially their political rulers, to remain faithful to God's commandments and/or to repent and turn back to God if they had strayed.

The folks I normally read and listen to are apt to point to the prophet's role as covenant messenger, pressing the suit of the great king (God himself, in this case) against his errant vassal people.

20 posted on 07/14/2012 6:21:43 PM PDT by Lee N. Field ("I'm so thankful for the active obedience of Christ. No hope without it." -- J. Gresham Machen)
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To: Salvation

When you post at times I believe we have real hard core masons responding at times.


21 posted on 07/14/2012 7:10:40 PM PDT by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: Salvation

When you post at times I believe we have real hard core masons responding at times.


22 posted on 07/14/2012 7:10:51 PM PDT by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: Salvation
One gets the impression that “fundamentalist preachers” are some mysterious, exotic breed of human to the author. I suspect he's never encountered one in the wild.

Heaven forfend if prophetic warnings of future events in the Bible itself are taken literally as (gasp!) prophetic warnings of future events.

We apparently are to instead look to odd, modern era “spiritual” emanations such as Fatima regarding future events, since these things ever so much more credible than the Bible.

23 posted on 07/14/2012 7:29:25 PM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: Salvation

Oops

. Who does the writer say denies Daniel?


24 posted on 07/14/2012 7:59:59 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: RaisingCain
I can't judge your mind or read your mind, but did you miss the following two quotes from the Bible?

  • Catholic Bibles contain all of the above, but also include the book of Baruch and a longer version of Daniel (with two additional chapters)
 

Did you, in fact, miss those?

25 posted on 07/14/2012 8:04:40 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Kenny Bunk

**This article is written by a proper Jesuit. **

Indeed!


26 posted on 07/14/2012 8:05:48 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: johngrace

And some other “off the bases” posters.


27 posted on 07/14/2012 8:08:14 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

“Did you, in fact, miss those?”


What does it matter how long it is in the Catholic Bible when the author doesn’t even believe it was written by Daniel? Unless you think Daniel survived the Babylonian captivity and lived to the times after Alexander, which your author dates him. Same thing for the other prophets. He accepts the modernist interpretation that dates scripture after the events they predict, since, of course, they don’t believe in God.

As for Daniel never being called a prophet. Seeing as how he spoke to God, received answers, same as any other prophet, and received both advice on matters and visions of the future, sounds like he’s a prophet.


28 posted on 07/14/2012 8:19:29 PM PDT by RaisingCain
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To: Salvation
Hello Salvation. Wonder when Christ told His disciples in Mark 13:23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.” Did Christ really mean what He claimed, or was He just boasting? Now this was stated before one ‘WORD’ (sola scripture to the majority of protesters) of the so called New Testament ever got recorded on plant or animal materials.

Then Christ quotes Isaiah 13:10 in verse 24, But in those days *after* that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,

Then Christ quotes Isaiah 34:4, then Daniel 7:13, etc....,

The Gospel includes those as Peter called ‘holy prophets’. Silly men/women snip and clip scriptures much like the scientific community devised their so called scientific methodology. And the longer I live the more I have observed the conjoining of religion of men in the same methodology some call science.

I think the author has called Christ Himself a fundie.

29 posted on 07/14/2012 8:38:21 PM PDT by Just mythoughts (Luke 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.)
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To: Kenny Bunk
Well I'll say this for Fr. Just, S.J., Ph.D.: his article would probably get him lynched in Texas. St. Ignatius might be happy about that. But I catch your drift on the S.J.s in general. I sent one of my brighter kids to them and he came back somewhere to the Left of Trotsky and talks like Barbra Streisand.

Through his (prodigious) nose with a Brooklyn accent?

Now about my brother ... who became a Unity minister ... splain that!


30 posted on 07/14/2012 8:40:40 PM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: Salvation
"OK, second time through. Who doeos the writer say denies Daniel?"

The writer of the post says Daniel was written in the 2nd and third centuries BC. Absolute nonsense. These claims for a late authorship of Daniel are just transparent attempts to explain away Daniel's incredible accuracy in predicting the rise of the Persian, Greek and Roman empires.

31 posted on 07/15/2012 4:42:37 AM PDT by circlecity
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To: Salvation
All due respect there is alot wrong with this author's writing.

"The books they wrote do not contain hidden coded messages for people living in the 20th or 21st centuries!"

Really! Mr Author!

Daniel 12

12:9 "And he said: Go, Daniel, because the words are shut up, and sealed until the appointed time.

12:10 Many shall be chosen, and made white, and shall be tried as fire: and the wicked shall deal wickedly, and none of the wicked shall understand, but the learned shall understand.

12:11 And from the time when the continual sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination unto desolation shall be set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred ninety days.

12:12 Blessed is he that waitedth, and cometh unto a thousand three hundred thirty-five days.

12:13 But go thou thy ways until the time appointed: and thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot unto the end of the days."

I do not know about his specifics but nobody will truly understand until the end of days. We are near and dear very close. These passages and others like it it make more sense now than ever.

Especially in the book of Revelation a hundred million plus man army from the east will be a major event.

Right now we have 90,000 Chinese army and Russian army in Middle east.

I believe it is no coincede that China is called the Dragon which is in Revelation book. It is steeped in there culture.

32 posted on 07/15/2012 6:10:12 AM PDT by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: Salvation; wideawake
Where did you get the idea that Catholics don’t read/deny Daniel

From the fact that your beloved author lists it as a forgery?

33 posted on 07/15/2012 8:20:38 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Ki-hagoy vehamamlakhah 'asher lo'-ya`avdukh yove'du; vehagoyim charov yecheravu!)
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To: MarkBsnr
Sung to "O Tannenbaum," or "Maryland my Maryland"

I sent mys son to Holy Cross,
He came back a total loss.
O Holy Cross, O Holy Cross,
Where all they eat is apple sauce.
They eat it
Morning, Noon and Night,
They even eat it when they're tight,
O Holy Cross, O Holy Cross,
Where all they eat is applesauce.

Yes, he has le bec de Cyrano, the political dialog,but not the accent. It's just as annoying in any accent.
This just in from Unity
where the pastors receive a bonus for new members. "You are wrong about Islam, Ken. Mohammed (May Peace be Upon Him) was probably a very nice guy. You know, like Buddha, or St.Francis of Asissi... like that. He was cool."

34 posted on 07/15/2012 11:22:36 AM PDT by Kenny Bunk (So, Scalia, Alito, Thomas, and FU Roberts can't figure out if Obama is a Natural Born Citizen?)
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To: MarkBsnr
Sung to "O Tannenbaum," or "Maryland my Maryland"

I sent mys son to Holy Cross,
He came back a total loss.
O Holy Cross, O Holy Cross,
Where all they eat is apple sauce.
They eat it
Morning, Noon and Night,
They even eat it when they're tight,
O Holy Cross, O Holy Cross,
Where all they eat is applesauce.

Yes, he has le bec de Cyrano, the political dialog,but not the accent. It's just as annoying in any accent.
This just in from Unity
where the pastors receive a bonus for new members. "You are wrong about Islam, Ken. Mohammed (May Peace be Upon Him) was probably a very nice guy. You know, like Buddha, or St.Francis of Asissi... like that. He was cool."

35 posted on 07/15/2012 11:22:55 AM PDT by Kenny Bunk (So, Scalia, Alito, Thomas, and FU Roberts can't figure out if Obama is a Natural Born Citizen?)
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To: Salvation

I think I’ll pass on receiving Biblical instruction from any member of a religion that does not acknowledge that all Scripture is God breathed, but rather places more emphasis on it’s man-made traditions and rituals.


36 posted on 07/15/2012 7:33:17 PM PDT by crosshairs
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To: crosshairs

Where does it say that the prophets spoke of man made traditions?

They spoke the Word of God as warnings to the people of their day.

You certainly would not be referring the Last Supper and the Institution of the Holy Eucharist as man-made, would you? For the Holy Eucharist, as recorded in scripture, was instituted by Christ himself.


37 posted on 07/15/2012 7:52:57 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Kenny Bunk
Sung to "O Tannenbaum," or "Maryland my Maryland"
I sent mys son to Holy Cross,
He came back a total loss.
O Holy Cross, O Holy Cross,
Where all they eat is apple sauce.
They eat it
Morning, Noon and Night,
They even eat it when they're tight,
O Holy Cross, O Holy Cross,
Where all they eat is applesauce.

Whoa, dude...

Yes, he has le bec de Cyrano, the political dialog,but not the accent. It's just as annoying in any accent.

You bet.

This just in from Unity where the pastors receive a bonus for new members. "You are wrong about Islam, Ken. Mohammed (May Peace be Upon Him) was probably a very nice guy. You know, like Buddha, or St.Francis of Asissi... like that. He was cool."

Cool huh? I wish somebody had put him on ice before he started the Religion of Hate.

38 posted on 07/16/2012 2:57:07 PM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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