Posted on 07/18/2012 5:34:35 PM PDT by Former Fetus
My previous articles commenced a series on the rapture of the church. We began with the question, "What is the Rapture?" This question can best be answered by noting ten truths about the rapture from 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:50-58. In previous articles from 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, we saw that the rapture is an important doctrine and not something that can be marginalized or explained away as a secondary doctrine. We also noted that the rapture is an event that is distinct from the Second Advent of Christ. We further observed that the rapture will involve the catching up of every believer to meet the Lord in the air, and that the rapture will involve a reunion between living and deceased Church-Age believers. We then began to examine several more points from 1 Corinthians 15:50-58. In the last article, we noted that the rapture will be a resurrection. We now move on to our sixth point.
An Exemption from Death
Sixth, the rapture will exempt an entire generation of Christians from death. First Corinthians 15:51 says, "Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed." Verses 54-56 say, "But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, "DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP IN VICTORY. O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR VICTORY? O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR STING?" The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law." Thus, Paul explains, that the rapture will involve the removal of an entire generation before the expiration of their natural life spans and the experience of death.
(Excerpt) Read more at bibleprophecyblog.com ...
When I die, just let it all stop! Life is way over rated.
Hmmmm, will the rapture be pre tribulation or post tribulation.
>>>When I die, just let it all stop! Life is way over rated>>>
But it won’t stop. You have a choice. Heaven or Hell. Try saying a prayer for belief, and take this chance to redeem yourself.
2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
Bobo: The key word is “day”. Look it up in the Greek. It is not plural. That wastes the pre-trib position and the mid-trib position.
I am pre-wrath.
Blessings, Bobo
Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. (Rev. 3:10)
Please check the link in message 7.
Regards
Sixth, the rapture will exempt an entire generation of Christians from death.
51
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
Our body dies and are in the grave but we are not there.
23
But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.
Christ the firstfruits; those are the ones who went with Christ, the hundred and forty four thousand.
2
And I heard a sound from heaven like the roar of rushing waters and like a loud peal of thunder. The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps.
3
And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth.
4
These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they remained virgins. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among mankind and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb.
5
No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless.
afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming. thats us or at least i hope i am with you.
10
And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
We will die, and then in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye we will meet Christ in the air.
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed
we don,t have time to sleep for hundreds of years, we shall be changed in the instant we die
Wouldn't Paul have said something "we shall not all sleep for long"? There's nothing in this verse that indicates that some people will sleep just for an instant. Something will happen in an instant, though, and that is that we will be changed.
If there was no death, what would be the purpose of saying o death, where is thy sting? if there is no grave why would it say, o grave, where is thy victory?
There was death up to the moment of the Rapture (and after the Rapture for many of those left behind). But for the child of God there will be no more death, no more grave, from that day on.
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive
At the time of the Fall, Adam did not die physically, but he did die spiritually. I think this passage talks about dying and being made alive spiritually
Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads.
The 144000 are from the tribes of Israel.
You are confusing the 144,000 of chapter 7, who are from the tribes of Israel, and the 144,000 of chapter 14 who are not from Israel but "redeemed from the earth" (v.3), i.e. believers from any nationality, origin...
After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
No man could number because it had not happened
Maybe they could not be numbered because there were so many! Kind of like comparing to the number of stars in heaven!
And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
Ch 14 explains that the hundred and forty four thousand are the first fruits of god.
Read chapters 7 and 14 again, carefully. Other than the number, 144000, there are few similarities between these two groups
We will die, and then in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye we will meet Christ in the air.
That's your interpretation. I believe that some won't die but will be "snatched" just like Enoch. But the bottom line, and we both agree with that, is that we shall be ever with the Lord. And that's all that really matters!
That’s your interpretation. I believe that some won’t die but will be “snatched” just like Enoch. But the bottom line, and we both agree with that, is that we shall be ever with the Lord. And that’s all that really matters!
The rapture is a grecco roman pagan myth. There will be no rapture. It is not going to happen. Bank on it.
The Rapture is a Scriptural fact: "For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord" (1 Thess. 4:16-17). You may have chosen not to believe in it, but that's a different story.
There will be a Rapture, it is going to happen, we can all bank on it. And you better believe while there's still time!
The NT is not scripture, therefore the rapture is not scriptural. You guys are not escaping anywhere.
From an on-line translation of the Tanakh: For the life of the flesh is in the blood; and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that maketh atonement by reason of the life. (Lev. 17:11) Now, since the destruction of the Temple, you guys have not had any animal sacrifices. Does it mean that all Jews, since then, have not been able to get forgiveness for their sins? That's an awful thought! Maybe, just maybe, you may want to have a look at the New Testament!
I'm going to ve leaving in a few minutes, but will respond to any post of yours this afternoon.
Baruch Haba B'Shem Adonai
My FRiend, you have to read carefully. The book of Hebrews, changes the words of Torah. It does not say, without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.
Read from the top of 17 on. It says dont eat blood, it is not a food source, the only purpose of blood is for atonement....is does NOT say, the ONLY means of atonement is blood.
There were many types of sacrfices at the temple. Many were offerings of thanks. Almost all sacrifices were for UNintentional sin. Only a half-dozen or so were intentional sin. Intentional sin could only be atoned for by Prayer,Repentance, Charity, Fasting and a couple others.
Lev 5:11 also makes it clear, FLOUR is a means of atonement, no blood required. There is not a single case in all of the OT, where a person is shown intentionally sinning and taking an animal to the temple.
Christianity's focus of the blood as the ONLY means of atonement is not warranted and even if it was, human sacrifice is forbidden by G-d.
My FRiend, you have to read carefully. The book of Hebrews, changes the words of Torah
I don't know about that, after all most scholars believe it was written by Paul, a Pharisee, a student of the great Gamaliel. But it does not matter, I was not quoting from Hebrews but from Leviticus. I even copied the verse from an on-line Torah (my best wish is to learn enough Hebrew to read the original).
It says dont eat blood, it is not a food source, the only purpose of blood is for atonement....is does NOT say, the ONLY means of atonement is blood
The grain (flour) offering was supposed to follow the burnt offering (Num. 28, Josh 22:23, 29; Jud. 13:19, 23). Thus, while the grain offering itself does not atone, there is atonement very near at hand whenever the grain offering takes place.
It really does not matter if we are talking about burnt offerings or grain offerings, the point I was trying to make is that all of that got stopped when the Romans destroyed the Temple. I fervently hope for the construction of the Third Temple, as I believe it is God's will for Israel, and I reckon the sacrificial system will be reinstated. But until then, we have over 2000 years of no sacrifices. I don't believe for one second that God has abandoned His people... there's another way to atone for one's sins, a perfect sacrifice that was offered once and for all! That's why I suggested that you don't dismiss so lightly the Brit Hadashah.
Years ago I heard an orthodox rabbi on tv, from Jerusalem, say that if Messiah came, he would ask him 'Sir, is this your first visit to Eretz Israel?' He was open-minded enough to let Messiah tell him if that would be His first or second visit! I would suggest that you don't wait, it just may be too late. Read your prophets, what do they say about Messiah? And pray that the Lord will open your eyes and your mind.
Looking forward to your response!
Baruch Atah Adonai Eloheno Melech Haloam shehecheyanu vekiyimanu vehigianu lizman hazeh
Not al all FF, I dont mind. I have been doing this sort of thing for a long time.
"I was not quoting from Hebrews but from Leviticus. I even copied the verse from an on-line Torah "
Yes, I noticed that. 9 out of 10 times roughly, when Lev 17:11 is quoted, it is done so with Heb 9:22 in mind.
Regarding sin offerings, it is important to note that flour is sufficient. The grain offering you pointed out in Num and Josh are not sin sacrifices. Again, look at Lev 5:11
11 ‘But if his means are insufficient for two turtledoves or two young pigeons, then for his offering for that which he has sinned, he shall bring the tenth of an ephah of fine flour for a sin offering; he shall not put oil on it or place incense on it, for it is a sin offering. 12 He shall bring it to the priest, and the priest shall take his handful of it as its memorial portion and offer it up in smoke on the altar, with the offerings of the Lord by fire: it is a sin offering.
It is an important point becasue Hebrews 9:22 asserts that ONLY blood atones and that is not correct. For example:
Isaiah, Ezekiel, Esther, Mordecai, Daniel all lived in Exile and with no Temple....Did G-d leave them without means of atonement? Did they go to hell? Of course not.
G-d knew (obviously!) that we would be without the ability to sacrifice.
...for the children of Israel shall abide many days without king or prince, without sacrifice or sacred pillar, without ephod or teraphim. Afterward the children of Israel shall return and seek the Lord their God and David their king. They shall fear the Lord and His goodness in the latter days. (Hosea 3:4-5)
Prayer:Take words with you, and return to the Lord. Say to Him, “Take away all iniquity; receive us graciously, for we will render for bulls the offering of our lips.” (Hosea 14:2-3)
Prayer and Repentance:If they sin against You, for there is no man who does not sin, and You will be angry with them, and deliver them to the enemy, and their captors will carry them away captive to the land of the enemy, far or near. And they shall bethink themselves 47in the land where they were carried captive, and repent, and make supplication to You in the land of their captors, saying,‘We have sinned, and have done perversely, we have committed wickedness.’ 48And they shall return to You with all their heart, and with all their soul, in the land of their enemies, who led them away captive, and pray to You toward their land, which You gave to their fathers, the city You have chosen, and the house which I have built for Your name. 49And You shall hear their prayer and their supplication in heaven, in Your dwelling place, and maintain their cause. 50And forgive Your people for what they have sinned against You, and all their transgressions that they have transgressed against You... (I Kings 8:46-50)
Prayer, Repentance, Fasting: 5 Then the people of Nineveh believed in God; and they called a fast and put on sackcloth from the greatest to the least of them. 6 When the word reached the king of Nineveh, he arose from his throne, laid aside his robe from him, covered himself with sackcloth and sat on the ashes. 7 He issued a proclamation and it said, “In Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles: Do not let man, beast, herd, or flock taste a thing. Do not let them eat or drink water. 8 But both man and beast must be covered with sackcloth; and let men call on God earnestly that each may turn from his wicked way and from the violence which is in his hands. 9 Who knows, God may turn and relent and withdraw His burning anger so that we will not perish.” 10 When God saw their deeds, that they turned from their wicked way, then God relented concerning the calamity which He had declared He would bring upon them. And He did not do it.
So, that is a small sample of passages where atonement is made without a temple, without blood.
So, whether it is the first exile that wasnt so long or a 2000 year exile, G-d did not leave us without means of atonement. The 3rd temple will be rebuilt, sacrifices and the preisthood restored (Ezek 44) and this time, the Jewish people will do and obey the law (Ezek 36).
The Rabbi on TV must have been joking or perhaps wasnt Orthodox. Our prophets speak of a very specific list of duties and tasks that messiah ben David will perform. He never is prophesised to suffer and die. Keep in mind there have been hundreds of messiahs over time. Kings, Prophets and some Preists, Jews and even a non-Jew (Cyrus), good and bad messiahs. There is a messiah ben Yosef, who is prophisied to be killed in battle at gog-magog, but he is a military leader and is alive at the same time as messiah ben David. So, when welook at all that Jesus did not fulfill as a would be messiah ben David, he is not the guy. I know the church says he fulfilled 300+ prophecies, but when you actually look at those, they are usually A) Not messianic B) about David or Solomon C) not exclusive to Messiah. Meaning ONLY messiah ben David can do this particular prophecy.
Finally, my eyes and mind are wide open. It is a fairly straight forward excercise. What does G-d say about messiah ben David. What sacrifices are appropriate? (Human?, suffocation on a cross?)Is blood required? What are the Jews show doing in the messianic era? What are the gentiles shown doing in the messianic era? And perhaps most importantly, does the church accurately render the Jewish scriptures that pertain to messiah or can be construed messianic? Sadly, the answer to that one is no. We can talk about that as they pop up.
Shalom Shalom.
Hey, what happened to that enthusiasm?
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