Posted on 07/22/2012 2:20:02 PM PDT by stpio
As usual, none of my five siblings or their families go to Holy Mass on Sunday. A Commandment is a Commandment, in the New Covenant assembling to worship God on Sunday is divine law. Does anyone else have family who skip Church on Sunday? Our nation is going further and further away from God. Are we seeing the beginning of God's just judgment?
~ ~ ~
* Hidden in Scripture, message from Mary: the dire effect of violating Sabbath *
July 20, 2012
We all know the requirement to attend Mass every weekend. Few realize, however, how seriously Heaven takes this.
That seriousness is witnessed in the Old Testament.
Look at Exodus 32, the Lord saying to Moses:
"You must also tell the Israelites: Take care to keep my Sabbaths, for that is to be the token between you and Me through the generations, to show that it is I, the Lord, Who make you holy. Therefore, you must keep the Sabbath as something sacred. Whoever desecrates it shall be put to death."
Tough stuff.
And granted, Christ came with a new covenant (one that in many ways was gentler).
There were not the harsh judgments we find in many parts of the Old.
But the Bible is the Bible and that the Sabbath is important seemed in ample evidence also when the Virgin Mary appeared in 1846 at LaSalette, France, and specifically warned that there was a chastisement coming because people were violating the law of weekly worship.
"I gave you six days to work, I kept the seventh for myself, and no one wishes to grant it to me," said Mary in September of 1846 to two visionaries.
"This is what weighs down the arm of my Son.
"If the harvest is spoiled, it is only because of the rest of you. I made you see this last year with the potatoes; you took little account of this. It was quite the opposite when you found bad potatoes; you swore oaths, and you included the Name of my Son. They will continue to go bad; at Christmas there will be none left. A great famine will come. Before the famine comes, children under the age of seven will begin to tremble and will die in the arms of those who hold them."
A bit like Exodus?
The Blessed Mother warned that the potatoes would rot and there would be a famine and she said they had been given a warning the previous years when they found some bad potatoes.
Now, they would all be bad, or far more.
And, incredibly: it was the onset of what became known in Ireland and this part of France as well as elsewhere as the Great Potato Famine.
Where a third of potatoes were "bad" the year before in Ireland (afflicted with blight), by the end of 1846 -- the year of the apparition -- three-quarters were thusly ruined.
And while few died in 1846, huge numbers were to succumb during the winter of 1847-1848, when more than a million died in Ireland alone, their bodies weakened and susceptible to diseases like cholera, which, true to Mary's words (which were approved by the Church) caused the young to tremble.
There is a pattern. We are warned. This comes through small "disasters." We heed the warning or are warned again -- this time with more serious events. And so forth.
What is the warning now? Should we note the droughts in Australia and North America? When we look at how weather events have been intensifying we see the same principle -- including with droughts that, as happened with blight, threaten widespread crop shortages. Says 2 Chronicles 36: "Until the land has retrieved its lost Sabbaths, during all the time it lies waste it shall have rest while seventy years are fulfilled."
Right now, corn farmers in the Midwest are praying (as we should also) for rain.
Serious, indeed, especially when we look at our own time and the way the Sabbath is treated now. In the U.S., weekly Mass attendance is at about 22 percent, according to one study.
Is it as bad as back in 1846, in rural France, or worse -- even far worse -- when it comes to disrespect for the Lord?
Douglas, I recall two places in the Gospel, it is written the first Christians assembled to worship on the first day of the week. Christians no longer worship on Saturday But on Sunday since our Lord rose from the dead on a Sunday (John 20:1, Luke 24:1on the First day of the week), thus from then onwards Sunday became the day of Public worship for the apostles as we read in 1Corinthians 16:2 “ On the First day of the week (Sunday) (in Hebrew yom rishon) every one of you must put aside what he can afford, so that collections need not be made after I have come.”
“I understand that is the tradition, but that IS NOT the correct interpretation of those verses.
For example:
1Co 16:2 On the first day of the week let each one of you lay something aside, storing up as he may prosper, that there be no collections when I come.
The word “day” is italicized in most translations to make it clear that the word does not actually appear in the greek text.”
~ ~ ~
I wish I could change your mind. The facts are, the Apostles changed the day we honor God, the day Christians are to gather to worship Him and rest, it’s now Sunday. The protests centuries later is lame. It’s like those who object think the first Christians and includes the Apostles were stupid. They didn’t have a specific name for the day as we do, they still knew what day it was, “the first day of the week.” You must give them more credit, otherwise what is True?
You are helping me look at more of Scripture. Here’s part of an appropriate quote. Please reply to this Gospel verse.
...”there is a text in the Bible that the anti-Romanist Sabbatarians dodge, it is Colossians 2:16. In it St. Paul warned the Colossians, as he warns us today, to beware of the impostures who would withdraw from Christ through a return to Jewish observances:
“Let no man judge you in meat and drink, or in respect of a festival day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbaths.”
[16] IN MEAT: He means with regard to the Jewish observations of the distinction of clean and unclean meats; and of their festivals, new moons, and sabbaths, as being no longer obligatory.
CORRECTION:
I used the plural, I should of typed the word are.
Sorry...
“The protests centuries later are lame”
Thanks, but I am neither buying or selling.
Peace be with you.
Good!
You won't find me dodging that one stpio! However most who use that quote to rail against the sabbath of the Lord take it out of context.
In Colossians 2 Paul is addressing a specific type of heresy that was threatening the early church. He list various hallmarks of this heresy:
Col 2:8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.
First he characterizes it as a "philosophy"...a tradition of men. It's an empty deceit and is according to the principles of the world.
Contrast that with the sabbath and the holy days of the Lord. They are Christ centered...Christ observed them. They are of scripture and are God based, not man based.
Col 2:18 Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
"False humility" is another characteristic as is angel worship. Neither one of these are taught by scripture and in fact are anti-Christ.
Col 2:20 Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations—
Col 2:21 "Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,"
Col 2:22 which all concern things which perish with the using—according to the commandments and doctrines of men?
Regulations against touching and tasting and handling are commandments and doctrine of men that this false teaching emphasizes. Of course the sabbath and holy days of the Lord are not of men, but of God.
Col 2:23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.
More characteristics.
Whatever this heresy is has no resemblance to what the Lord teaches through scripture.
So in context:
Col 2:16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths,
So in context the Colossians were being judged on HOW they were observing the holy days and sabbaths of the Lord Jesus Christ. Not whether. But how.
Verse 17:
Col 2:17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.
Unfortunately translators did a poor job of rendering ""soma christos" which everywhere else is rendered "the body of Christ."
In other words, nobody was to judge the Colossians on how they were observing the holy days and the sabbaths of Christ except for the body of Christ.
The more I participate in these dialogs, the more I am able to recognize those who sincerely join in to respectfully discuss beliefs versus those who blindly obey religious dictates. They often leave us with parting shots intended to emotionally injure when others refuse to concede to their proclamations. The Reformers were incredibly brave men and women because they had to stand up against a religious power that DID have the backing of the state and which had no compunction at all with using their temporal power to eliminate all those they could not subjugate.
Some here really don't give a rip what anyone else has to say and are only on to defend against what they perceive as attacks upon their religion. Since they cannot countenance that their religion ever could be wrong, they cannot ever admit it has been no matter how much evidence is brought forth and they will resort to name calling, whining, ridicule and patronization in order to appear unfazed and unmoved.
I do hope you will continue to join in on these discussions. It is a mission field of sorts with a readership in the hundreds of thousands. We never know who will see the words we write or how the Holy Spirit touches their hearts for the truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ who saves us by grace through faith. To God be the glory!
LOL! Where is this peace you speak of for everyone?
Catholicsm is KNOWN for it's criticism when someone doesn't bow to untruths. Just one more reason I'm blessed - I'm out of it!
Praise GOD!
If you keep this up, I’ll be able to take that vacation. LOL
LOL
Tell me, is this stpio's interpretation of the passage in Hebrews or Mary's or Kevin Barretts or some other "prophet/seer"? You state it is talking specifically about the Jewish Sabbath being changed to Sunday, calling it the "new sabbath" and which you previously stated was a "mortal sin" to skip going to "church" on Sunday. Do I have that part right? Well, let's look at the passage. I'll post it in three different versions:
KJV - Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Douay-Rheims - Again he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time, as it is above said: To day if you shall hear his voice, harden not your hearts. For if Jesus had given them rest, he would never have afterwards spoken of another day. There remaineth therefore a day of rest for the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, the same also hath rested from his works, as God did from his.
But, it's not good interpretation rules to just start reading anywhere. You need to get the context of what the writer was talking about. So let's go back to the start of the chapter, shall we:
“So I declared on oath in my anger, ‘They shall never enter my rest.’”
And yet his works have been finished since the creation of the world. For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: “On the seventh day God rested from all his works.” And again in the passage above he says, “They shall never enter my rest.” Therefore since it still remains for some to enter that rest, and since those who formerly had the good news proclaimed to them did not go in because of their disobedience, God again set a certain day, calling it “Today.” This he did when a long time later he spoke through David, as in the passage already quoted:
“Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts.”
For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works, just as God did from his. (Hebrews 4:1-10)
The question, obviously, must be what this "rest" is all about - what kind of rest was Joshua not able to give to the Israelites he was leading into the Promised land? The Jews observed the Saturday (seventh day) Sabbath and still do - those who are observant, that is. But this must not be the rest God is talking about because he says in verse 3, "Now we who have believed enter that rest", and that rest was NOT something anyone could enter in without FAITH. Notice, too, that they were told it was something to "obtain" - they entered into, and NOT something they observed. That's an important distinction.
This rest was NOT the seventh day Sabbath nor was it the rest in the Promised Land. So what do we know of that can only be obtained or entered into by faith? That no one who has unbelief can enter? And that for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works? I'm going with HEAVEN. It alone is the perfect rest, the perfect completion of all that God has made, rest from sin, suffering, sorrow. The rest that ONLY became available once Jesus came and after which all creation will one day fully rest. I like what the Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary said, "The Jews call the future rest "the day which is all Sabbath."
Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary says:
It is evident, that there is a more spiritual and excellent sabbath remaining for the people of God, than that of the seventh day, or that into which Joshua led the Jews. This rest is, a rest of grace, and comfort, and holiness, in the gospel state. And a rest in glory, where the people of God shall enjoy the end of their faith, and the object of all their desires. The rest, or sabbatism, which is the subject of the apostle's reasoning, and as to which he concludes that it remains to be enjoyed, is undoubtedly the heavenly rest, which remains to the people of God, and is opposed to a state of labour and trouble in this world. It is the rest they shall obtain when the Lord Jesus shall appear from heaven. But those who do not believe, shall never enter into this spiritual rest, either of grace here or glory hereafter. God has always declared man's rest to be in him, and his love to be the only real happiness of the soul; and faith in his promises, through his Son, to be the only way of entering that rest.
You cut it quite short to imagine this passage can only be talking about changing a day of worship from Saturday to Sunday. Especially since Scripture tells us that we have liberty to worship on any or every day we choose and that we should not be judging another on what day they set aside. Heck, I take my Mom to mass on Saturdays usually, is she committing a mortal sin??? YOU TELL HER, OK?
Thanks for your kind remark, we can discuss. The Douay-Rheims explains Church teaching on Paul’s words in Col 2:16. I realize, we disagree, the Church interprets Scripture not every person who reads the Bible (PIOS).
When you reject the Church you are dodging another fact, most all Christians including non-Catholic Christians keep holy the Lord’s day, gathering together to worship God on Sunday. It’s historical. Are they all wrong?
see you,
~~ ~~ ~~
Elsewhere in the Holy Bible, we read that Saint Paul informed the Colossians that they should not be disturbed by those who condemn them for observing the Sabbath. “Therefore do not let anyone condemn you in matters of food and drink, or of observing festivals, new moons, or Sabbaths.” [Colossians 2:16-17]
Why did he inform the Colossians not to be disturbed because of their worship on Sundays? It is because from the early days of the Church, Christian worship took place on Sundays, NOT on Saturday. This was implemented to recognize who the Christians were. The Jewish people worshiped on the Sabbath in the Synagogues. The Christians worshiped on Sundays in their homes, in the catacombs, places that were convenient and safe (before the first CHURCHES were built).
Messiah HAD to fulfill BOTH of these, therefore he was put in the grave before sunset, prior to sunday. Also according to Scripture prophesy that he himself gave, there are 12 hours in the daytime which means there are 12 hours in the nighttime making 24 hours in a complete day, he rose 72 hours after he was laid in the tomb. 72 hours means he rose on the 3rd day, the weekly Sabbath as it was dawning towards the next day but still his Sabbath as is prophesied.
You can copy & paste as many English versions you wish but the fact is, the key is in the Greek & Hebrew. In Hebrew the dawning begins as the sun is setting on the day that is ending. In Messiah's language which is Hebrew, dawning moving towards something means beginning anew, a new day is arriving. First is "one" and week is "Sabbaton". One of the Sabbatons refers to the Feast days, it was the Feast of First Fruits which is also a holy convocation day in which no work is to be done aka a Sabbath. Finally, the word "day" is not actually in Scripure, it was added and why it is in italics.
(KJV) Mat_28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first ONE day of the week SABBATON, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
It was still the weekly Sabbath, but the Sabbath had not actually ended yet and it was dawning towards one of the High Sabbaths of Leviticus 23. Knowing Hebrew idioms and how they were used in the 1st century is a must for any student of the Bible. I agree he ascended to the Father on First Fruits, but he rose before First Fruits on the weekly Sabbath which is the sign, the mark of God's children (Ex 31:13)
Messiah HAD to fulfill BOTH of these, therefore he was put in the grave before sunset, prior to sunday the next day which was the Feast of Unleavened Bread. A defiled body left on the stake would have caused great distruption (Mk 14:1-2), not to mention his death being for naught as all who had believed would have walked away if his body was still on the stake AND not in the tomb come sundown.
Mar 14:1 After two days was the feast of the passover, and of unleavened bread: and the chief priests and the scribes sought how they might take him by craft, and put him to death. 2 But they said, Not on the feast day, lest there be an uproar of the people.
The Feast day disruption they are speaking of is Unleavened Bread and the reason why is that the Passover lamb is slain on Passover, hence the reason it is called Passover but the meal is not actually eaten until after sundown on the Day of Unleavened Bread in which none of the Passover Lamb is to remain come sunrise. This is why it is important to study the Bible as a whole, beginning in Genesis so we know what they are talking about when we get to Mt - Rev.
Luke 24
1 Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning , they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared , and certain others with them.
John 20
1
The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.
Mat 28
1
In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week,
The translation i have come to trust is the authorized version ( the KJV ) not that i am sure there are no mistakes but not the obvious mistakes or maybe i should say contradictions that i find in the modern versions.
The main reasons i came to trust the KJV is that during the time it was written was a time when it was necessary for the people to know what the Bible really said.
The new versions printed in the 1970s were printed by religious organizations and in my view were just for the purpose of making some one rich, and this includes the new KJV.
No offense meant here but do i take your word or do i take the words of the translators who did the work in the 1600s who were much closer in life style to the authors of the scriptures than what we are now and for that reason alone would have a better understanding.
It is evident that all of the translators believed that Mary came to the tomb on sunday morning before it was yet light
I believe that the seventh day ( Saturday ) is the Sabbath and that it was ordained the Sabbath in genius and can not be changed to sunday or any other day.
I also believe the early Christians kept the sabbath and that is the reason they held Church service on sunday.
The sabbath is to be a day of rest, many people, especially hired preachers works harder on sunday than any day of the week, not to mention working their family.
Not too many years ago they also worked their animals which is also not supposed to happen.
So if they really believe that Sunday is the Christian Sabbath then it is easy to see that they don,t much care what the law of God says that they claim to have the authority to preach.
I also use the KJV, but I DO KNOW that it is not without fault or bias because it was scribed by a catholic priest hired by King James and King James ordered certain words be changed. One also doesn't need to know Greek. There are many free bible programs online that give us the definitions of the Greek and Hebrew words that were transliterated into English. I use e-sword. Then taking the context of what is being said, which takes reading or quoting more than just one verse, and putting the proper English word in place.
The fact is, God tells us in Isaiah 56 who the gentiles are who enter His kingdom, those who guard His Sabbath and His covenant. His covenant is what the KJV calls “Law”. Here is what my KJV says of “Law”
“The Pentateuch is the first 5 books of the Bible, called “Torah” in Hebrew Scriptures. Though we often call the books “The Law”, Torah does not mean “law” but “teaching”. Basic to the Torah is the idea of the covenant. A covenant is an agreement. In the Bible covenants are special, because God is one of the parties to the covenant. The Torah is, in part, a record of God’s covenant and the implications of the covenant for human life in society.”
IOW, the 1st 5 books are the “instruction manual” for God's people as well as the nuptial agreement for the bride of Messiah, those partaking in the marriage supper of the lamb. When we confess Messiah, we are saying “I DO” to the covenant. God doesn't break covenant, but when His children do by rebellion against the terms of the covenant, they bring upon themselves the curses as well as being kept outside the gate of the kingdom.
We are the prodigal son and only when we humble ourselves and return to Him will He hear from the heavens, forgive us and heal us. Judah is the loyal son who stayed home and became jealous when the father welcomed back the prodigal son. We are literally witnessing this happening today. Thousands of Orthodox Jews who don't know how to react to all these prodigal sons returning to the covenant.
The fact is, anything that is not found in Scripture is of man, whether it be law, religious decree or tradition and God says those things will be destroyed, utterly obliterated because in them there is no respect for His Authority as Supreme Ruler.
God, through His Son our Messiah is restoring His Authority on this earth as He said He would. It is His wish for all His creation to be saved but He is the God of reality and knows only a remnant will be saved. We are given the choice to be of the remnant or to reject it and that is the beauty of His Way. It is not dictatorial as the church system preaches, it is a loving plea from a loving Father for His children to turn back to Him in obedience to the marriage vow they made to His Son.
“And the two shall be one”
Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in dogma; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body ... Eph 2:19 Now, therefore, you are no longer gentiles, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God
Paul says we are no longer gentiles. In Romans 25 he calls us the wild olive branch. Jeremiah & Hosea tell us the olive tree is Israel. Isaiah 49 tells us that Messiah is Israel so if we are grafted into the olive tree called Israel, then ALL of Moses is for us.
The reason for America's founding was due to religious oppression. There were Sabbath keepers as well as Sunday worshipers and their individual colonies reflected those beliefs and they respected those, but if someone came and did not, they were sent packing.
In closing I ask you to ask yourself this. If God uses His Sabbath to know who His children are and it is the ONLY everlasting/eternal sign of the covenants of promise which are the covenants of Messiah, wouldn't one want to show themselves approved to make sure they are not in rebellion towards God & Messiah?
In closing I ask you to ask yourself this. If God uses His Sabbath to know who His children are and it is the ONLY everlasting/eternal sign of the covenants of promise which are the covenants of Messiah, wouldn’t one want to show themselves approved to make sure they are not in rebellion towards God & Messiah?
John ch 6
39
And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Bring us back a T-shirt!
>> “ On the First day of the week (Sunday) (in Hebrew yom rishon) every one of you must put aside what he can afford, so that collections need not be made after I have come.” <<
.
That was not a worship day. The worship day remained the sabbath for the early Christians, and a collection of money was strictly forbidden on the sabbath, so it was an instruction to gather on the work day when it was permissible to collect money.
It was always forbidden to collect money on the Lord’s day.
The Lord didn’t rise on Sunday, he was crucified at the same time that the priest sacrificed the lamb in the temple for passover, which was on what we would call wednesday evening by our calendar, and laid in the tomb for exactly three days, arising on what we would call saturday evening, but what the Jews and the Christians called the first day of the week. Gods days always begin at sundown, and that is when his Son arose victorious over the grave.
At no time did any Christians of the first century dishonor the sabbath. The collection of money often was done at Hav Dalah, which was a gathering on saturday evening marking the beginning of the new week. That was what Paul was refering to.
Well I agree....scripture is not by private interpretation. Where we disagree is the church we submit our authority to.
When you reject the Church you are dodging another fact, most all Christians including non-Catholic Christians keep holy the Lord’s day, gathering together to worship God on Sunday. It’s historical. Are they all wrong?
As you said it's historical. Sunday worship exists primarily due to the wish of some early Christians to distance themselves from anything that looked too "Jewish". This was due to the antipathy toward Judea on account of a series of Jewish revolts against the Roman empire.
Since then tradition and culture have played a large part in Sunday worship.
However it's important to realize that scripture grants no such change to the holy days of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Therefore do not let anyone condemn you in matters of food and drink, or of observing festivals, new moons, or Sabbaths.” [Colossians 2:16-17] Why did he inform the Colossians not to be disturbed because of their worship on Sundays? It is because from the early days of the Church, Christian worship took place on Sundays, NOT on Saturday.
Colossian 2:16 and 17 is undoubtedly referring to the holy days of the Lord (festivals) and the sabbaths of the Lord. The greek from which this is translated is used consistently throughout the new testament to refer to the holy days that the Lord created (listed in Leviticus 23) and the weekly sabbath, created holy on the 7th day.
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