'Spiritual Olympics' Series (S.O.S.): A Glimpse of Mormonism Around the Globe [Vanity]

Colofornian | Aug. 11, 2012 | Colofornian

[Colofornian]

The apostle Paul -- and other Biblical men of God who constructed the New Testament -- at times used athletic words and analogies of the day. James used the word "swift" (James 1:19); John talked about overcoming (1 John 5:4); and the apostle Paul wrote about exercise (1 Tim. 4:7); wrestling (Eph. 6:12); striving (within preparation boundaries) (2 Tim. 2:5), and running a race (1 Cor. 9:24).

The author of Hebrews also discussed the need to "lay aside every weight" (Heb. 12:1). The Greek word for "weight" -- ogkos -- was a burden or something heavy or cumberson enough that it could impede a runner from running his race as he might.

Certainly, legalistic "religion" -- "religion" that goes beyond simple devotion to Jesus Christ (2 Cor. 11:2-4) -- can lead to somebody embracing "another Jesus" (2 Cor. 11:3-4) -- a "Jesus" is who isn't the Real One.

Perhaps the legalism as such a burdensome "weight" can explain how..."census data from some foreign countries...show that the retention rate" for Mormon converts to be "as low as 25 percent. (Source: Special report -Mormonism besieged by the modern age [Lds church is hemorrhaging in member losses])

Mormon Sociologist Armand Mauss concluded: "75 percent of foreign [LDS] converts are not attending church within a year of conversion. In the United States, 50 percent of the converts fail to attend after a year." And, per Cumorah.com, "This postbaptismal attrition is heavily front-loaded. Elder Dallin H. Oaks noted that 'among those converts who fall away, attrition is sharpest in the two months after baptism,' and missionaries report being told in the MTC" [Missionary Training Center] "that up to 80 percent of inactivity occurs within two months of baptism. In some parts of Latin America, 30 to 40 percent of new converts do not even return to church after baptism to be confirmed."

Source: LDS Church Growth, Member Activity, and Convert Retention: Review and Analysis: Chapter IV-06: Member Activity and Convert Retention

With athleticism being a key "filter" of late with the London Olympics, a series of questions worth delving into at this Olympic season: Who are the Mormons? Who are the American Mormons? And who are the international Mormons? Are some American and international Mormons "exiting" their "spiritual Olympics" trials prematurely? Is this primarily due to discovering Lds history and carefully examining Mormon theological claims? What are some of the reasons for the extremely low Mormon retention rates in other countries?

Well, this S.O.S. -- Spiritual Olympics Series -- seeks to address some of these questions.

South America: Brazil

Last month, the Salt Lake Tribune ran a piece, Brazil mystery: Case of the missing Mormons (913,045 of them, to be exact), by Peggy Fletcher Stack (July 16, 2012).

The following day, a poster at the New Order Mormon.org forum commented on the Trib piece: "I'm sorry, but I just had to call out the ridiculousness of the church's response to the 913,045 member discrepancy between the number of Brazilian members the church claims (1,138,740) and the number of self-identified Mormons on the" [2010] "Brazilian census (225,695)..."A spokesman for the [LDS] "church said, 'A good indicator for membership growth and activity in any area can be found in the construction of meetinghouses and temples'. Um, no. How about 'a good indicator for membership growth and activity' is ACTUAL membership growth and activity rates? Don't distract by saying, 'we're still building stuff, so therefore we must be growing!' Please. Chaps my hide." [Source: New Order Mormon.org, Brazil Mystery: Case of the Missing Mormons]

That forum post at New Order Mormon then led to at least four past Lds missionaries to Brazil chiming in as to why Mormon converts are not readily being retained in that country:

Sources for quotes below are the New Order Mormon Web forum: Brazil Mystery: Case of the Missing Mormons

New Order Mormon ex-missionary to Brazil #1	New Order Mormon ex-missionary to Brazil #2	New Order Mormon ex-missionary to Brazil #3	New Order Mormon ex-missionary to Brazil #4
"The census is just saying that the mormon self-identification rate in Brazil is ~20%. I served my mission in Brazil within the last decade. And it wouldn't surprise me if some of those self-reported mormons in the census are also inactive, and the activity rate is even lower. Admittedly, my evidence is only anecdotal, having only passed through a handful of wards and branches in the middle of nowhere, but the ward lists were enormous compared to the relatively small number who showed up on Sunday. And the vast majority of people I saw baptized quickly stopped attending." (Kneefights, July 17, 2012)	"I also served in Brazil (although more than a decade ago), and I would add that the culture there is a little different in respect to religion. The people in general are a lot more spiritual (or you could say superstitious), but most of them have very little commitment to hierarchical organizations. This means that missionaries giving emotional experiences are able to have great numbers of converts, but once someone is baptized, making them loyal to the coorperation is VERY HARD. Getting the people to say that they believe in the stories of the Book of Mormon is pretty easy, but making them attend church even when they say that they believe is hard. It's just a different culture. I very rarely ran across any athiests, skeptics, or non-christians while in Brazil. Most people were willing to believe pretty fantastic stories about religion without any doubt (or very little doubt). Most people I knew believed very strongly in black magic and other various folk magics. It wasn't much of a stretch that Joseph Smith saw an angel and transalated an ancient record. That wasn't out of the ordinary.I met people all the time that claimed to have seen something supernatural.The reason (I believe) that the LDS church isn't growing as fast as other denominations in Brazil is that it is too "North American" and too conservative. It isn't as emotional and magical as many of the other faiths. The Mormonism of the early church (Joseph Smith era) would flurish MUCH MORE in Brazil." (True Believer, July 17, 2012)	"I served in Brazil as well. I left for the MTC almost 13 years ago. I served in one ward that had over 900 members on the books, with a weekly attendance of about 60. 600 of those members were baptized by one elder, years previous." (Babajaga, July 17, 2012)	"I served in Brazil. I believe up through the 90s there were a ton of soccer baptisms - kids just rounded up after a soccer game and baptized just for numbers. There was never any attendance or conversion. We didn't do that in my time, but we were still pressured to pressure the investigators to get baptized way before they were ready. It wasn't uncommon to have 10 times as many inactives as actives in a ward. Ward sizes were typically very small (in activity), maybe 50-70 members. I'm not surprised at all." (Stimpson, July 18, 2012)

South and Central America

At the same forum link above, New-orderMormon chimed in: "Chile, Peru, Argentina, Guatemala, Costa Rica, etc....It's the same story in every developing country. I'm glad it's starting to get some traction out there, but it's been a numbers sham for years."

India and Asia generally

Almost a decade ago, it was reported: "Protestant groups have been more successful than Latter-day Saints in mobilizing missionaries outside of the United States, especially in Asia. There are over 44,000 Protestant missionaries from India, with 60% serving domestically and 40% serving abroad. Within the next few years, India is expected to surpass the United States as the leading sender of Protestant and Evangelical missionaries! There are only 52 LDS missionaries serving in all of India, with only a fraction being native missionaries."

Source: The Fastest Growing Church in the World?

Sweden

In Sweden, Mormonthink.com reported that "Apostasy within the LDS Church seems to be among the highest in Sweden with many LDS members questioning their beliefs, including several high-ranking LDS leaders. In order to help these struggling members in Sweden, the LDS Church issued a document called 'The Swedish Rescue'."

Source: The Swedish Rescue

The United Kingdom

Fortunately, in the UK, where the Olympics have been hosted, UK Partnerships for Christ has a blog ministry Mormon outreach: Mormonism Investigated UK

One of the recent blog entries this Web site ran was: The Great Apostasy? – By Vicky Gilpin (Aug. 6, 2012) [Scroll down from top]

It also ran a multi-part testimony of former Mormon Chris Ralph, who had been Lds in the UK for over 35 years.

[Elsie]

Why the obsession with Mormonism? Is it any more “godless” than Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism, Astrozorianism?

The latter groups do NOT claim to be 'christian' and the ONLY proper 'christians' at that!

[Elsie]

Hay!

That’ll be just about enough of THAT stuff; Buster!

[Elsie]

 

 

If You Could Hie to Kolob

 #284 – William W. Phelps

1. If you could hie to Kolob In the twinkling of an eye,
    And then continue onward With that same speed to fly,
    Do you think that you could ever, Through all eternity,
    Find out the generation Where Gods began to be?

2. Or see the grand beginning, Where space did not extend?
    Or view the last creation, Where Gods and matter end?
    Me thinks the Spirit whispers, “No man has found ‘pure space,’
    Nor seen the outside curtains, Where nothing has a place.”

3. The works of God continue, And worlds and lives abound;
    Improvement and progression Have one eternal round.
    There is no end to matter; There is no end to space;
    There is no end to spirit; There is no end to race.

4. There is no end to virtue; There is no end to might;
    There is no end to wisdom; There is no end to light.
    There is no end to union; There is no end to youth;
    There is no end to priesthood; There is no end to truth.

5. There is no end to glory; There is no end to love;
    There is no end to being; There is no death above.
    There is no end to glory; There is no end to love;
    There is no end to being; There is no death above.

 

 

 

 

 

[Elsie]

 

W. W. Phelps I have a Dream William Wines Phelps, assistant president of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in Missouri

I Have a Dream

 

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William W. Phelps' grave marker.

 The back is inscribed with the words

 

There is no end to matter

There is no end to space

There is no end to spirit

There is no end to race.

 

There is no end to glory

There is no end to love

There is no end to being

There is no death above"

from the hymn

"If You Could Hie to Kolob".

Today, William W. Phelps is probably best-known for his legacy of LDS hymns, many of which appear in the current edition of the LDS Hymnal.^[6]

Just a couple...

If You Could Hie to Kolob

Praise to the Man

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Excommunicated and rebaptized

A scribe to Joseph Smith Jr., for some time, in late 1838 Phelps was one of several who bore witness against Smith and other leaders, aiding in their imprisonment in Missouri until April 1839. In June 1840, Phelps plead for forgiveness in a letter to Smith. Smith replied with an offer of full fellowship, and ended with the famous couplet, "'Come on, dear brother, since the war is past, For friends at first are friends again at last.'"^[4]

It was decided that Phelps, along with Frederick G. Williams, could be ordained as elders and serve missions abroad. Phelps served a brief mission in the eastern United States in 1841. Phelps moved to Nauvoo, Illinois where on August 27, 1841, he replaced Robert B. Thompson (who had died) as Joseph Smith's clerk. Beginning in February 1843, Phelps became the ghostwriter of many of Smith's important written works of the Nauvoo period, including General Joseph Smith's Appeal to the Green Mountain Boys of November 1843, Smith's theodemocratic presidential platform of January 1844, and The Voice of Innocence which was presented to and unanimously approved by the Relief Society in February 1844 to rebut claims of polygamy in Nauvoo arising out of Orsimus Bostwick's lawsuit accusing Hyrum Smith of polygamy and other sexual misconduct with the women of Nauvoo.^[5]

Phelps was endowed on December 9, 1843, received his "second anointing" promising him godhood on February 2, 1844, and was also made a member of the Council of Fifty. In Nauvoo, Phelps spoke out in favor of the destruction of an opposition newspaper, the Nauvoo Expositor. He believed that the city charter gave the church leaders power to declare the newspaper a nuisance. Shortly afterwards, the press and type were carried into the street and destroyed. Phelps was summoned to be tried for treason with Joseph Smith at Carthage, Illinois.

During the Mormon Succession Crisis in 1844, Phelps sided with Brigham Young and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. He was again excommunicated on December 9, 1848 for entering into an unauthorized polygamous marriage, but was rebaptized two days later.^{[citation needed]} He took part in the Mormon Exodus across the Great Plains and settled in Salt Lake City in 1849. He served a mission in southern Utah Territory (as counselor to Parley P. Pratt) from November 1849 to February 1850. There he served in the Utah territorial legislature and on the board of regents for the University of Deseret (now the University of Utah). Phelps died on March 7, 1872 in Salt Lake City, Utah Territory. He was buried at Salt Lake City Cemetery.

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Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._W._Phelps_(Mormon)

[kevao]

If it’s about sin, then why the threads specifically on Mormonism? How many similar threads have you done on the godlessness of any of the other false religions I mentioned?

[Slump Tester]

Catholic priests have been doing that for years, so they send them somewhere else. What’s your point?

[Loud Mime]

I believe that JESUS paid for ALL of mine.

That's nothing more than Spiritual Welfare!

[Loud Mime]

Your cult has its own problems.

I remember reading somewhere in the Bible that a person should be careful how they judge other people. But when a person has been consumed by pride, they must continue to judge.

[Loud Mime]

First off, I don’t read your long cut and paste screeds. I don’t care about your obsession with the mormans. I do care that you cannot stand up to a challenge. Since you have NEVER proven your own religion to be credible, your arguments carry no validity.

You have taken another flight away from reality with your JSmith comment; are you imagining things, or did I write something about loving smitty? Please let me know.

[Loud Mime]

So, you're citing a bunch of stories. Good for you. You believe that's what God said, but I don't. I studied the history of the Bible and the apocrypha; it gave me more questions than answers. If the Commandments are to mean something, their importance should not be diluted by new-age christianity:

I believe that they have become financially driven forgiveness factories for some whose behavior is far, far from the examples set by Christ. Some are hurting conservatism’s cause. I live in California; I see it. Organized religion is driving good people away from the republican party. You do not have to be a “christian” to be virtuous.

[roylene]

Your reply may be the funnest reply I have ever read.

You have "studied" the Bible and call what I quoted from the New Testament "new age Christianity".

Good grief, the humor of you statement is a really good belly laugh - the New Testament, is new age Christianity.........hahahahahahahah

[roylene]

This is a thread about Mormonism.
You are free to start whatever thread you wish on any religion you wish, that’s what the religion forum is for - religious discussions.
Just ping me when you do, so I wont miss the event.

[kevao]

Yes, I understand that. But, getting back to my question, how many similar threads have you done on Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc? And could you please point me to those? I’d be interested in perusing them.

[roylene]

I haven’t, other people have though.
If you click on just the Religion Forum button you might find some along with other threads related to religion.
I actually do not think I have posted any threads in the Religion Forum.
Maybe I should think about doing that.
I just looked, and there are really very few about Mormonism and they go back to before 2002, it appears it is an issue now because of Romney, where as before most people just did not care or notice.
So when you post a thread about religion, ping me, I’d be interested.

[Religion Moderator]

Do not make this thread "about" individual Freepers. That is also a form of "making it personal."

Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.

[greyfoxx39]

Placemark

[kevao]

I don’t really have much to say about any religions but my own, so I doubt I’ll be starting any threads in the Religion Forum. That’s not to say I won’t participate occasionally though.

[Elsie]

How many similar threads have you done on the godlessness of any of the other false religions I mentioned?

NONE of them claim to be CHRISTIAIN.

And the only TRUE Christians at that.

[Elsie]

That's nothing more than Spiritual Welfare!

Yup!

And I am in the battle to stay.

Using the TRUTH of the BIBLE against the LIES of Salt Lake City.

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2 Corinthians   10:3-5

 

3. For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:

4. (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)

5. Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

 

[Elsie]

I do care that you cannot stand up to a challenge.

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