Skip to comments.Boy Scouts had to fight with Catholic priests to remove gay leader from Catholic scout troop?
Posted on 08/21/2012 9:44:44 AM PDT by Morgana
LOUISVILLE, August 20, 2012, (LifeSiteNews.com) The Boy Scouts of America (BSA) have assured a homosexual will no longer act as an assistant scoutmaster at a Catholic churchs troop. But he will continue to lead Our Lady of Lourdes Catholic Churchs Girl Scout troop.
I am finding it increasingly difficult to keep a low profile and stay in the closet with the Boy Scouts, Greg Bourke, 54, wrote in a letter to the Lincoln Heritage Council on June 22.
Bourke said he had become increasingly uncomfortable with the dont ask, dont tell policy of the Boy Scouts I feel like its hateful and I dont approve of it.
In response to his letter, Commissioner J. McFerran Mac Barr II asked Bourke to resign from the Catholic churchs BSA troop, where he had volunteered for the last five years.
Bourke told local media after he refused to resign, the council contacted the churchs priest, Fr. Scott Wimsett, and later Fr. Jeff Gatlin, the Scouting liaison for the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Louisville.
Bourke claimed both refused to remove him from his Boy Scout post. He stepped aside only after the Boy Scouts threatened to revoke the churchs scouting charter.
However, he will remain a leader in Girl Scout troop 1575, which also meets at Our Lady of Lourdes Roman Catholic Church in Louisville. The Girl Scouts support homosexual leadership. I do believe its time for the Boy Scouts to come in to the current century, said Girl Scouts of Kentuckiana CEO Lora Tucker.
Cecelia Price, a spokeswoman for the Archdiocese of Louisville, said in a media statement that the Church expects adult leaders whether heterosexual or with same-sex attraction in any ministry strive to lead chaste lives.
According to the Louisville Courier-Journal, Bourke said he and his partner attend Our Lady of Lourdes, and it is widely known that they are gay.
Bourke has lived with another man for 30 years. They have adopted two children.
The Supreme Court upheld the Boy Scouts right to set membership criteria as a private organization in a June 2000 ruling, and the scouts reaffirmed their policy on July 17.
Mitt Romney, who served on the organizations executive board, said, I feel that all people should be able to participate in the Boy Scouts regardless of their sexual orientation during a 1994 debate with Ted Kennedy. Campaign spokeswoman Andrea Saul confirmed earlier this month that, while he opposes the BSAs scouting policy, he has not pressured the group to change its stance.
Other adversaries resorted to force. In 2011, the Missouri PTA has asked its 420 affiliates to sever ties with the BSA because of its stance on homosexuality; and in 2007, Philadelphias City Council voted to end a 70-year lease over the policy.
Rev. Donald E. Overton, an Episcopalian priest in Lousiville, vouched for Bourkes leadership. We have to encourage a change at the highest level, he said.
But Boy Scouts of Americas chief Scout executive Bob Mazzuca said parents appreciate its policy, which gives them the right to address issues of same-sex orientation within their family, with spiritual advisers, and at the appropriate time and in the right setting.
To respectfully contact the Archdiocese of Louisville: http://www.archlou.org/contact/
Shame on those Girl Scout mothers who think 2 gay men represent the best role models to lead their Girl Scout troop. So much for developing female leadership.
.......and no smarty alecky remarks about what kind of merit badges you can earn in that troop either......ya wisenheimes-freepers ya.../s
Agreed! What does a twelve or thirteen year old do when she is at camp and gets her first period, and there’s no woman leader to talk to?
I recently chastised a young niece of mine, when she so strongly objected to a Christian school’s dismissal of a self-idenitied “gay” teacher. She used terms like “his first amendment rights” and “freedom of speech and thought”, and suggested that what the school did should be considered illegal.
I patiently asked her - what about the “first amendment rights” of the school, to adhere to it’s religious faith and practice. I suggested she back off of her idea that the law should be brought to bear on the case, even if she disagreed wth the school’s policy.
I asked her - if the school did not have a right to it’s opinion, then whose opinions are free from becoming “illegal” just ‘cause enough people say so. She saw my point, agreeing that the school had a legal right to it’s policy.
I just want to remind everyone:
So does the BSA, and guess what, so do private organizations that disagree with the BSA.
We can feel betrayed by our own religious organizations that do not live up to their own standards of faith and practice, and we can and should advocate that our religious leaders not permit such betrayals; as long as, beyond that, we do not wish, hope and desire, a reversal of fortunes and want the law to “enforce” the opinions of the BSA.
We will never get the Liberals out of the use of the law as their most-desired instrument of “social change” and “social values”, if too many of us simply want the shoe on the other foot.
Personally, I am more of a “social” Conservative; when it comes to the law I am more a Libertarian. I believe Jesus intended we make His law our own, personally, and in all our private assosications and priavte institutions, and not pretend we are making secular government His instrument. I believe He disavos such linkage to Him.
This remarkable quote “ Church expects adult leaders whether heterosexual or with same-sex attraction in any ministry strive to lead chaste lives. ignores the simple truth that homosexuality is a behavior, not a condition. There are no virgin queers.
Your bumper sticker criticism of Catholicism misses the mark. Sexual relations between any two persons other than a man and his wife is the sin of fornication. Homosexuals need our prayers, our compassion, and our respect for their basic human dignity. God will ultimately judge them and us for how we treat them. The treatment of homosexuals and homosexuality by the Church is the same for any sin and sinner, even you and your sins:
CCC 2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered. They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.
CCC 2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill Gods will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lords Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
CCC 2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.
Peace be with you
Plus, they evidently call themselves gay, not "brother" and "brother" in something like a small monastic community.
They have publicly abjured sexual relations, AND they call themselves gay, so isn't it a fair assumption that they are sexually active? And therefore not chaste?
Like I said, serious question. And not just for them, but for Our Lady of Lourdes Church.
The homosexual rights war against BSA is a multi-front campaign.
1. BSA National Executive Board - corporate CEO members who want to internally eliminate BSA’s DADT membership policy.
2. United Way chapters which decrease/deny needed funds to local BSA councils to meet their payrolls.
3. Christian denominations/ churches which charter scout units, but which will soon become problematic for BSA because of the churches acceptance of open homosexual membership/ ordination/civil unions / marriage ...
a. United Church of Christ
b. Episcopal Church
c. Presbyterian Church in the United States of America
d. Evangelical Lutheran Church
e. Disciples of Christ/ Christian Church
f. Alliance of Baptist churches
g. Moravian Church
This article clearly demonstrated the ongoing fight within the Roman Catholic Church on this matter. I confess that I was very surprized, and disappointed, that the local church clergy initially opposed BSA. There are several reports of Roman Catholic clergy attempting to deny open homosexuals the eucharist and admitting children of open homosexual parents into church schools but are later reprimanded by higher-ups in the church when the homosexuals press their case.
So far, the United Methodist Church has withstood the homosexual flood, but it appears to be weakening in its resolve, at least within the USA. The mantra of “social justice” has taken root in many suburban churches. The subject of BSA’s membership policy will very soon be taken up by the American national church’s leadership.
4. “Other” BSA Cub Pack/ Bly Scout troop charter organizations, e.g., in this article it is the Missouri PTA which is threatening to break ties with BSA units. Public elementary and middle schools used to accomodate BSA and permit them the opportunity to hold recruiting events during the evening on school properties. Those days are gone.
5. TV and radio. It was farily common, as late as the 1980s for PSAs to be broadcast which supported Scouting. Those days are gone.
6. The Girl Scouts of America have definitely embraced “total inclusion/ diversity” and appears to be becoming an open adversary of the BSA. Others here have had more experience with GSA. My understanding is that adult males can assist unit operations but only in the background and at a distance. Most everyone seems to grasp the wisdom of keeping the adult males away from the girls - yet many cannot see this same understanding applied to open homosexuals - male or female.
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As so many biblically literate Christians have pointed out, all sin has to be opposed but in a loving manner. This is a tough stand to take in these extremely permissive and bibilcally illiterate times. Also, the homosexualist opposition has been applying Saul Alinsky’s “Rules for Radicals” since the 1969 Stonewall Riots to (1) isolate, (2) ridicule, and (3) demonize orthodox Christians.
They know that no-fault divorce since ~ 1970 has severly weakened the church’s moral standing because if preachers preached against divorce, their pews would empty, i.e., how can the church preach against the bad behavior of 2.8% of the population (homosexuals) when ~50% of the marriages conducted in churches fail and end in divorce?
There is a biblical method to address sin:(1) call attention (identify) to the sin (again, in a loving manner), (2) ask for repentance, (3) personal behavior reform (including education/counselling) to avoid the sin from now on till you die, and finally (4) the isolation/shunning (”tough love”) of unrepenant sinners who are harming themselves and those around them.
Society is truly unraveling, and becoming irreparably polarized. These degenerates will never stop until they invade every conservative institution to destroy it, and conservatives must continue to stand firm in order to remain conservatives.
There is no way around a civil war, a bloody one.
“This remarkable quote ‘Church expects adult leaders [to remain chaste]....’....There are no virgin queers.”
O.K., but, it’s as if you are assuming that all the unmarried “heterosexuals” also “remain chaste”.
I doubt that either set of conditions is ascertainable by the church leaders - in today’s culture and society, or that they know or that they try to find out.
Regardless, that still leaves the question of the moral probity of leaving young people in scouting - especially when outings are such a large part of scouting - in the supervision of persons who are sexually attracted to the gender of their scouts.
People think such a question is “homophobic”, it’s not.
What would parents say if their “girl scount” was on a troop outing under the supervision of a 19 year old young man. Are they going to assume - it’s O.K., he’s “chaste”. I doubt it.
It should not happen, not only for the young girl’s sake, for the young man as well. Either one could become the victim of unwarrented attentions - in either direction. While, one risks violation, physcially, the other risks their reputation being violated when an an unwarranted advance was rejected.
The concerns of parents when it comes to “gay” troop leaders is no different. Instead of being “safe” with the troop leader, the gender-attraction roles are reversed, and parents reverse their consent accordingly. It really does not matter if everyone is assumed “chaste” or not.
I agree with your premise but you have missed mine. Homosexuality is not a condition. It is an activity. One cannot be a homosexual unless one has engaged in homosexual acts.
Homosexuality and chastity are incompatible terms. To be homosexual one must first engage in homosexual activity. There is no homsexual gene, no chemical imbalance creating a homosexual predisposition. It is a form of fornication, nothing more and nothing less.
The Catholic church disagrees with yout premise. They do not take the position that “homosexuality” is only a behavior. It’s just that the Catholic church condems all sexual behavior outside of marriage, and marriage is only the marriage of one man and one woman. EVERYONE outside of marriage is to remain chaste, if they are a faithful Catholic.
I am a member of Our Lady of Lourdes. It mystifies me that a man living openly in a homosexual relationship is allowed to function as an extraordinary minister of the Holy Eucharist. There is also an open lesbian couple at the parish with an adopted child. Wouldn’t these situations have been called giving scandal years ago?
“Homosexuality and chastity are incompatible terms”
Never knew of a sodomite in my life that could remain
They all go after teenage boys. They can not control their
sexual urges. The reason for that is homosexuality is a mental disorder.
95% of the sex abuse cases in the Catholic Church or any other faith are from homosexual men who can’t keep their hands off teenage boys. You hardly ever hear of a straight priest, pastor, etc, charged with sexually molesting girls.
The media will not report the homosexual scandal in all religions. The reason? They love sodomites and see nothing at all wrong with them sexually abuse young teenagers.
\You are mixing up 2 distinct issues. One, does the RCC believe that homosexuality is a sin. If not they should agree to gay marriage. Two, chastity is not possible for homosexuals. It is a contradiction in terms. So long as the RCC tries to normalize homosexuality and make it chaste they will continue ordaining gay priests and will skirt dangerously close to making sin a sacrament.
There are people who struggle with chastity all around us, and more heterosexuals than homosexuals. But people who live together without vows (hetero or homo) are giving objective sandal. The problem is often that the pastor is not, in fact, calling ANYONE ot repentance. Porn-consuming parishioners, contracepting marrieds, cohabiting 20-or-30-somethings, drunken fellow priests, or anybody else, ever.
The First Reading in the Mass today is from Ezechiel, "Woe to you shepherds who are not shepherding my sheep."
It is no real news about the GSA, though. They have been supporting atheistic secularism for decades now.
Of course there is going to be push-back on this, true Christians are few and far between these days.
This man, living with another man for thirty years in sexual deviancy, is no position to guide the character development of youth. This would be like putting a sex addict as their leader and one whose sexual preferences have a history towards pedophilia.
The sad part about this is that these two males are raising their two children to believe this deviant behavior is to be promoted when, the truth is that, it is a behavior that is not only immoral but a rather severe disorder and nothing that should be encouraged nor accepted in the public sphere.
In a few years some of these children raised by homosexuals are going to grow up and be old enough to tell a story or two
I am waiting to hear this.
Homosexuality, if you mean the temptation, is a temptation, not a sin in itself but always a moral danger, due to our fallen nature.
Is it possible for a person who experiences this temptation, to live chastely? Yes, it is. By rejecting the sin in thought, words, and deed; by avoiding the persons, places, and circumstances which conduce to this sin; and by a firm reliance on the grace of God and recourse to the Sacraments.
1 Corinthians 10:13
No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it.
This applies to people battling temptations to homosexuality, or alcoholism, or gluttony, or wrath, or avarice, or thievery, or sloth, or marital infidelity, or any other sin.
It is important to make a distinction between the temptation, and the sin.
The Catholic doctrines have never, as you say, "normalized" homosexuality.
There are way too many ignorant, deluded, or proudly dissident Catholics in error about this, but it is their opinion, and not Catholic doctrine, which is erroneous.
First of all, it isn't a "don't ask, don't tell" policy. The policy clearly states a homosexual cannot be a scout leader.
Second of all, if you are "uncomfortable with it" then quit being a scout leader. They don't want you anyway, so both parties will be happier.
Temptation does not define a person. Tempted to steal does not make one a thief. Tempted to kill does not make one a murderer. Tempted to bugger another of the same sex does not make one a homosexual. while temptation is sinful in the eyes of God it is not sinful in the eyes of society. Homosexuality only occurs when it is performed. There is no predisposition to homosexuality that brands one a queer, only the act.
A scout leader who is a professed queer has performed sexual acts on another male. Such persons are not constrained by sexual taboos or moral controls. Unless they turm away from and reject as sinful their sexual immorality they can not be permitted to be in authority over children.
Your attempt to define a person as a chaste homosexual is an aberration and is not consistent with Catholic doctrine.
(2) But if you mean "homosexual" as in "a man who experiences sexual attraction to a man," then of course a homosexual in this sense can be chaste. He resists temptation -- he resists in thought, word, and deed, by the grace of God, and does not sin.
This is why the word "homosexual" is problematic, because this verbal confusion between the two common meanings keeps recurring.
An analogy: temptation to get drunk does not make one a drunkard, but alcohol dependence syndrome (a particularly sensitivity to alcohol toxicity), does make you an alcoholic --- and it's something you can be born with (e.g. Fetal Alcohol Syndrome.) This hyper-vulnerability may be none of your own doing, but you still have a responsibility to abstain from alcohol for your entire life. Thus you can be a teetotal, sober, clean, alcoholic. But you're still an "alcoholic," --- albeit a "dry alcoholic," --- because you still have that inward vulnerability to alcohol.
This thinking is completely opposite the "God made me this way" pablum that today's homosexual activists push. I think everyone recognizes that Man has a sinful nature and we are tempted to do many things that we should not do (stealing, violence, perversion, etc.). The point of being a moral person is that we abstain from the acts which are improper.
The people who claim "I was born this way" have simply given up on behaving in a moral manner. They don't even try.
I think Vidal is right on this point. However, people do differ from each other in their particular vulnerabilities or individual temperaments, and the word "homosexual" (or better, "a man who experiences SSA") can be used in that sense to describe a person with that particular vulnerability.
There are some men who would never feel inclined to engage in sexual relations with another man under any conditions. There are some who would feel so inclined under conditions of stress, an all-male environment, and isolation from women (armies, navies, monasteries, prisons). There are some who "feel" this inclination during early adolescence but not upon full maturity. And there are still others who feel this inclination more-or-less persistently from puberty onward.
It's important to recognize the existence of these varying tendencies, because, for one thing, one would want to shield a male with this kind of temperament, from being placed in morally challenging situation, a place of accentuated temptation and opportunity. Even if this man intends chastity, you don't put him in a submarine with a bunch of good-looking sailors, or make him a voice tutor for the Vienna Boys' Choir.
Here’s the problem. If there is a prediliction to homosexuality, a genetic or even a psychological disposition them homosexuality is a condition warranting legal protection. This is the slippery slope that has permitted homosexual marriage, adoption and fornication with children aka scout leaders buggering the children they are bound to protect. It is not for nothing that a major plank of the homosexual agenda is the corruption of children. Homosexuals are nothing more than bad little boys getting nasty.
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