Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Brigham Young biography portrays a great leader and an unpleasant man [Book on Lds Deseret shelf]
Ogden Standard-Examiner ^ | Oct. 6, 2012 | Doug Gibson

Posted on 12/04/2012 3:35:55 PM PST by Colofornian

Closing the book after reading, "Brigham Young: Pioneer Prophet," the new biography by George Mason University religious studies professor John G. Turner, published by Belknap Press of Harvard University, causes some swirling emotions for this Latter-day Saint reader. From reading Turner’s fantastic — and it is by far the best that has been written of Young’s life — biography, it’s easy for a faithful Mormon to agree that God called Young to the task of moving 20,000-plus Mormons across the plains to Utah territory and over a generation-plus, to set up hundreds of Mormon settlements. No man in U.S. history was ever that successful in those endeavors. On the other hand, while admiring Young’s organizational skills, I don’t much care for Brigham Young the man.

Turner’s biography portrays an often unpleasant man, with a foul mouth — his preferred cuss word was "shit" — and a spiteful, vengeful nature. He had a caustic sense of humor, which perhaps mitigates some of his casual comments that seemed to support violence. He ruled the Salt Lake Valley as an absolute dictator, and harbored longtime grudges against apostles who dared to criticize his particular beliefs, such as blood atonement, the Adam-God doctrine, and the United Order. While no evidence exists that Young ordered the Mountain Meadows Massacre, his messages to Native Americans that they could steal from non-Mormon settlers, the atmosphere of settler-animus that pervaded 1857 Utah, and Young’s successful efforts to stymie an initial investigation into the massacre, harm the image of the LDS Church’s second modern-day prophet.

Indeed, Young’s caustic tongue also inflamed a Mormon bishop to castrate a petty criminal, a Logan member. Rather than feel sympathy for the man or his mother, Young protected the ecclesiastical leader who had ordered it. And, reading accounts of murders of non-Mormons by LDS thugs Porter Rockwell and William Hickman, it seems plausible to theorize that Young ordered those deaths.

However, Turner’s book overall is not a negative portrayal of Young. It is another example of grizzly bear truth, where a great man’s life is revealed, with strengths and weaknesses, talents and faults included. The book is on the shelves at Deseret Book, and that’s appropriate because it does justice in recounting the life of the West’s most prominent 19th century colonizer. Turner describes Young’s hardscrabble existence in early 18th century New England, his strained relationship with his father, and his early religious skepticism that was finally counteracted by Joseph Smith’s new religion, Mormonism.

Before the mid-1840s, Brigham Young was known for his compassion and openness as a Mormon apostle. Turner recounts his tender, love-filled letters to his wife, Mary Angell, and the biography includes accounts of his compassionate tenure as a leader to the Mormons in England. But the murder of the Joseph Smith, the continued harassment of Nauvoo Mormons afterward, and, as important, the internal dissent that swirled within the LDS Church prior to Smith’s murder, all that changed Young. He appears to have turned into a man, a leader, determined to never let that happen again. Young mercilessly abused the LDS apostles both privately and publicly.

Young’s CEO-type behavior, though, achieved its goals. No disagreeing members of the LDS hierarchy were able to achieve the success of the Law brothers, in Nauvoo. Young’s hammering of the Saints in Utah, his public denunciations and calls for repentance, kept the Utah Mormons united in their distrust of outside influences and retained their faith in unity.

His strong opposition to mining, for example, kept Utah free of non-Mormon influences for as long as Young could manage it.

Young never forgave what he perceived as disrespect, and late in his life arranged the apostles’ hierarchy so that Orson Pratt could not become church president. It was motivated by retained anger over Pratt’s efforts at independence. Young never admitted that he made mistakes. The handcart fiasco was the fault of Franklin Richards and John Taylor; the failure to enact a United Order was the fault of Erastus Snow. Private gestures of compassion and charity to apostles, severely chastened by Young, served to partially mitigate this routine abuse. Young also provided himself a great deal of wealth and luxury, while relegating many of his followers to relative poverty. He tolerated no criticism of this perceived inequality.

Young demands respect despite his human weaknesses. More than even Joseph Smith, he is responsible for the survival of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. His shrewd leadership, along with help from the canny, non-Mormon lobbyist, Thomas Kane, managed to keep him as the main source of power in the Utah territory for much longer than anyone would have anticipated. Young was able to manipulate political events, wars, the seasons, weak-willed political appointees, Native American unrest, and petitions for statehood to consistently survive virtually every imbroglio with the federal government or U.S. Army. Turner recounts many incidents of Young surviving as Utah’s leader while "gentile" nemesis after nemesis left Utah as grumbling failures.

When the railroad connected Utah with the nation, Young’s power slowly decreased the last decade of his life. Perhaps to cheat the spectre of death, Young took a few young wives. He tried to re-energize support for two doctrines he had long espoused, the Adam-God doctrine and the United Order. Those efforts though were lackluster. Still revered by members, Young seemed a calmer, or perhaps just exhausted, lion. One of his final acts was to dedicate the St. George Temple. Characteristically, he criticized an apostle while doing so.

Brigham Young was a great man. I revere him as a prophet. He was also a man of his times, who carried the savagery and bigotry of that era. Many of his most egregious acts can be explained, and even perhaps excused, by the understanding that he felt himself to be in a war. He believed that his existence, and that of his Gospel, was in danger. That he died as leader of the Utah Mormons was his final victory, and final sacrifice for Joseph Smith.

dgibson@standard.net. This column was published at Nothing Standard blogs at http://blogs.standard.net/the-political-surf/2012/10/01/brigham-young-biography-portrays-a-great-leader-and-an-unpleasant-man/


TOPICS: History; Other Christian; Other non-Christian; Religion & Culture; Theology
KEYWORDS: brighamyoung; inman; lds; mormonism; mormonprophet
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-62 next last
To: Hound of the Baskervilles; greyfoxx39; svcw; All
It seems I spoiled all the fun by pointing out the flaws and sins of other denominations and their founders and the apparent “cognitive dissonance” of their followers.

No, actually you...
(a) showed that the reformers & other church leaders' need for a Savior;
(b) and that NONE of them were divine -- unlike the temple Mormons...who claim to be "gods in embryos"...

The issue isn't simply -- as you try to reduce it down to...who has sins and who has flaws & who doesn't.

If that is your weak argument, then Jesus Christ stands in one corner & we ALL...past & present...fall down on the other side...

(So, in case you couldn't tell, HoTB, we're ALL united 'round THAT premise!!!)

I'll tell you what, tho: Show me ANY church leader -- Protestant, Orthodox, or Catholic -- who thought Adam was God.

I mean even Joseph Smith, the founding Mormon prophet, declared it was the FIRST principle of the Gospel to know the true character of God. And Brigham Young frankly flunked even Smith's declaration...(pretty tough to do when you examine how many false things Smith said about the Gospel!)

And why would you want to defend a man who thought that Adam was God?

(You're not some tucked-away 'Adam-is-God' disciple, are you?)

41 posted on 12/04/2012 9:03:40 PM PST by Colofornian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Graybeard58

The Southern Baptist Convention.


42 posted on 12/04/2012 10:49:24 PM PST by Hound of the Baskervilles ("Nonsense in the intellect draws evil after it." C.S. Lewiscrate)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: Hound of the Baskervilles
The Southern Baptist Convention.

Your statement was:

Baptist church apologizes for pro slavery position of 150 years ago.

My answer was and still is, that the S.B.C. (Southern Baptist Convention) doesn't speak for their member churches as all S.B.C. member Churches are autonomous.

Churches affiliated with the S.B.C. sometimes buy literature from them and support missionaries through them, there's no Pope there or leader of all the Baptist churches.

You chose to ignore that, I suspect you will do it again, as it doesn't fit your agenda.

43 posted on 12/05/2012 4:27:30 AM PST by Graybeard58 (What G.O.P.e. candidate is in store for us in 2016?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: Hound of the Baskervilles
But it is perfectly okay to malign Mormons as a hobby?

You lack a bit of knowledge of MORMONism's history it seems...



Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).
Joseph Smith: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).
 
 
 
Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).
 
 
 
Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).
 
 
 
Orson Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses
, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses , 18:172).
 
 
President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses , 10:127).
 
 
 
James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).
 
 
 
President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).
 
 
 
More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).
 
 
 
President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).
 
 
President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 2, p.196).

44 posted on 12/05/2012 5:10:16 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Hound of the Baskervilles
But it is perfectly okay to malign MormonISM as a hobby?

Any place that a MORMON has the nerve to start spouting any of their HERESY will turn in to a BASH.

Bold
ANTIs
Spotlighting
Heresy

45 posted on 12/05/2012 5:11:14 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: svcw

And since when are their panties available to non-mormons...

https://www.google.com/search?q=zcmi&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7ADRA_enUS475


46 posted on 12/05/2012 5:13:13 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: svcw

And since when are their panties available to non-mormons...

http://store.lds.org/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Category3_715839595_10557_21152_-1_Y_image_0


47 posted on 12/05/2012 5:15:05 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: svcw

The joys of auto correct on a smart phone.

http://www.penisland.net/

It ain’t what you think...


48 posted on 12/05/2012 5:17:07 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: Hound of the Baskervilles
The Southern Baptist Convention. says that MORMONism is a heresy.
49 posted on 12/05/2012 5:18:29 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: Hound of the Baskervilles
The Southern Baptist Convention. says ...

http://www.truthandgrace.com/Baptistonmormon.htm

50 posted on 12/05/2012 5:20:27 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: Graybeard58

Can I really ‘apologize’ for something I had no part in?

I can express regret for it; wish it never happened, say it was wrong; but...


51 posted on 12/05/2012 5:22:36 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: svcw

“panties available to non-mormons”


. . . Uh . . .


52 posted on 12/05/2012 7:14:41 AM PST by freedomlover
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian

53 posted on 12/05/2012 7:17:46 AM PST by freedomlover
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Hound of the Baskervilles; Colofornian; Graybeard58
Baptist church apologizes for pro slavery position of 150 years ago.

Mormon church has never apologized for its racist doctrine (from the 1830s until 1978) preventing blacks from being able to take part in rituals that supposedly enable them to attain "exaltation", the mormon equivalent of salvation.

54 posted on 12/05/2012 7:39:00 AM PST by greyfoxx39 (Ann Romney "ascending to the White House was their destiny."http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: greyfoxx39
Mormon church has never apologized for its racist doctrine (from the 1830s until 1978) preventing blacks from being able to take part in rituals that supposedly enable them to attain "exaltation", the mormon equivalent of salvation.

It mattereth not; as Mia Love is in the house!





"You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind.

The first man that committed the odious crime of killing one of his brethren will be cursed the longest of any one of the children of Adam. Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings.

This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race--that they should be the 'servant of servants', and they will be, until that curse is removed."

Brigham Young-President and second 'Prophet' of the Mormon Church, 1844-1877- Extract from Journal of Discourses.



Here are two examples from their 'other testament', the Book of Mormon.

2 Nephi 5: 21 'And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people, the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.'

Alma 3: 6 'And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion against their brethren, who consisted of Nephi, Jacob and Joseph, and Sam, who were just and holy men.'



August 27, 1954 in an address at Brigham Young University (BYU), Mormon Elder, Mark E Peterson, in speaking to a convention of teachers of religion at the college level, said:

"The discussion on civil rights, especially over the last 20 years, has drawn some very sharp lines. It has blinded the thinking of some of our own people, I believe. They have allowed their political affiliations to color their thinking to some extent.I think I have read enough to give you an idea of what the Negro is after."

"He is not just seeking the opportunity of sitting down in a cafe where white people eat. He isn't just trying to ride on the same streetcar or the same Pullman car with white people. It isn't that he just desires to go to the same theater as the white people. From this, and other interviews I have read, it appears that the Negro seeks absorption with the white race. He will not be satisfied until he achieves it by intermarriage."

"That is his objective and we must face it. We must not allow our feelings to carry us away, nor must we feel so sorry for Negroes that we will open our arms and embrace them with everything we have. Remember the little statement that we used to say about sin, 'First we pity, then endure, then embrace'...."

(Rosa Parks would have probably told Petersen under which wheel of the bus he should go sit.)



1967, (then) Mormon President Ezra Taft Benson said,

"The Communist program for revolution in America has been in progress for many years and is far advanced. First of all, we must not place the blame upon Negroes. They are merely the unfortunate group that has been selected by professional Communist agitators to be used as the primary source of cannon fodder."



We are told that on June 8, 1978, it was 'revealed' to the then president, Spencer Kimball, that people of color could now gain entry into the priesthood.

According to the church, Kimball spent many long hours petitioning God, begging him to give worthy black people the priesthood. God finally relented.



Sometime before the 'revelation' came to chief 'Prophet' Spencer Kimball in June 1978, General Authority, Bruce R McConkie had said:

"The Blacks are denied the Priesthood; under no circumstances can they hold this delegation of authority from the Almighty.

The Negroes are not equal with other races where the receipt of certain blessings are concerned, particularly the priesthood and the temple blessings that flow there from, but this inequality is not of man's origin, it is the Lord's doings."

(Mormon Doctrine, pp. 526-527).



When Mormon 'Apostle' Mark E Petersen spoke on 'Race Problems- As they affect the Church' at the BYU campus in 1954, the following was also said:

"...if the negro accepts the gospel with real, sincere faith, and is really converted, to give him the blessings of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost, he can and will enter the celestial kingdom. He will go there as a servant, but he will get celestial glory."



When Mormon 'Prophet' and second President of the Church, Brigham Young, spoke in 1863 the following was also said:

"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God is death on the spot. This will always be so."

(Journal of Discourses, Vo. 10, p. 110)





Yeah; Native Americans are althroughout the Book of MORMON; too.

 

“I saw a striking contrast in the progress of the Indian people today ... they are fast becoming a white and delightsome people.... For years they have been growing delightsome, and they are now becoming white and delightsome, as they were promised.... The children in the home placement program in Utah are often lighter than their brothers and sisters in the hogans on the reservation.

At one meeting a father and mother and their sixteen-year-old daughter were present, the little member girl-sixteen-sitting between the dark father and mother, and it was evident she was several shades lighter than her parents—on the same reservation, in the same hogan, subject to the same sun and wind and weather.... These young members of the Church are changing to whiteness and to delightsomeness.

One white elder jokingly said that he and his companion were donating blood regularly to the hospital in the hope that the process might be accelerated.

 

(Improvement Era, December 1960, pp.922-23). (p. 209)

 



 

55 posted on 12/05/2012 7:50:46 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 54 | View Replies]

To: greyfoxx39; Hound of the Baskervilles; Graybeard58; All
Mormon church has never apologized for its racist doctrine (from the 1830s until 1978) preventing blacks from being able to take part in rituals that supposedly enable them to attain "exaltation", the mormon equivalent of salvation.

Excellent point, and allow me to unpack that.

When I've mentioned what this Mormon door-shutting involved re: blacks, I've usually only mentioned things like not being allowed to be married in the temple; not being allowed to be part of male priesthood; but greyfoxx39 has hit upon the #1 attempted impact of Mormon racism/exclusion:

If you couldn't get a Mormon temple recommend, then per Mormonism, no exaltation. And no exaltation per Mormonism meant NO LIVING TOGETHER IN THE ETERNAL PRESENCE OF HEAVENLY FATHER.

So not only did Mormons teach/enact EARTHLY racism; but they intentionally sought to keep ALL blacks (& other "colors") out of God's eternal presence! And, as GF said, they have NEVER apologized for ANY of that!!!!

ALL: And here we have Hound of the Baskervilles being an advocate -- a "devil's advocate" -- for all of this!!!

What's your next online "project", HoTB...are ya gonna run interference for the KKK on ANOTHER forum???

56 posted on 12/05/2012 9:37:42 AM PST by Colofornian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 54 | View Replies]

To: Elsie; Graybeard58; greyfoxx39; Hound of the Baskervilles; All
Can I really ‘apologize’ for something I had no part in? I can express regret for it; wish it never happened, say it was wrong; but...

My take is...yes...but with three key qualifiers:

#1...that what we're talking about is something egregious that occurred in the past...and not more on the side of the trivial;

and #2...That if, in some way, your identity is linked with that egregious activity;

and #3...That you've never publicly distanced yourself from it -- by labeling it as "wrong"; "in error"; "sinful"; "false prophecy," etc.

The fact is that the Mormon church HAS NEVER apologized for its exclusionary racism. They just changed it and attempted to "move on."

Nor has the Mormon church officially labeled Brigham Young as a "false prophet" for teaching it; and for teaching blood atonement and Adam-God. They just say it's not "official Mormon doctrine" and attempt to "move on."

The rock group Jethro Tull has a lyrical line that applies to what the Mormon church has done here: "Skating a-way...skating away...skating away...on the thin ice of a new day."

57 posted on 12/05/2012 9:48:35 AM PST by Colofornian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 51 | View Replies]

To: freedomlover
wives of brigham young
58 posted on 12/06/2012 10:56:08 AM PST by greyfoxx39 (Ann Romney "ascending to the White House was their destiny."http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 53 | View Replies]

To: greyfoxx39

“Rode hard and put away wet” comes to mind...


59 posted on 12/06/2012 11:56:10 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 58 | View Replies]

To: svcw

?


60 posted on 12/08/2012 7:49:33 PM PST by BlueMoose
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-62 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson