Posted on 01/13/2013 9:28:12 PM PST by madison10
I cannot believe I never caught this before as I've been reading the Bible most of my life and have been listening to evangelists, preachers, etc for almost as long. (50+ years)
I started reading in the Song of Solomon last night, but ended up in the Book of Revelation. Here's the quote from Revelation, Chapter 14:
9A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, 10 he, too, will drink of the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb.
11 And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name.” 12 This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God’s commandments and remain faithful to Jesus. 13 Then I heard a voice from heaven say, “Write: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.” “Yes,” says the Spirit, “they will rest from their labor, for their deeds will follow them.”
See verse 12? This statement is made more than once in Revelation. So I was rather unnerved and went to the Scripture that spoke of the Last Trumpet--I Corinthians 15 (NASB) Also in Revelation 13:10. If the saints are already "raptured" then why is their patient endurance required? Answer: They are not "raptured," they are still on the earth dealing with the antichrist.
The Mystery of Resurrection
50 Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, 52in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, “DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP in victory. 55“O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR VICTORY? O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR STING?” 56The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law; 57but thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Then I flip back to Revelation and count to the Last Trumpet--The Seventh Trumpet (or when the Seventh Angel Blows the Trumpet)--Revelation 11.
The Seventh Trumpet—Christ’s Reign Foreseen
15Then the seventh angel sounded; and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ; and He will reign forever and ever.” 16And the twenty-four elders, who sit on their thrones before God, fell on their faces and worshiped God, 17saying, "We give You thanks, O Lord God, the Almighty, who are and who were, because You have taken Your great power and have begun to reign. 18“And the nations were enraged, and Your wrath came, and the time came for the dead to be judged, and the time to reward Your bond-servants the prophets and the saints and those who fear Your name, the small and the great, and to destroy those who destroy the earth.”
What is weird is that I never tied the scriptures together before. Am I missing something? I see no where that is says we are to be rescued prior to the antichrist taking over.
Maybe someone else sees it, but IMHO there is no Rapture prior to the Tribulation, the Rapture IS the Coming of the Lord.
Rev 3:10 also supports a pre-trib rapture because sometimes "from" actually means from.
Also in Rev 3 The church that "hast kept the word of my patience" has "before thee an open door, and no man can shut it" and "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation"
Whilst the church that thinks it has everything has "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock"..ie:the door is not open and no man shut it.
Psalm 27:5 For in the time of trouble he shall hide me in his pavilion: in the secret of his tabernacle shall he hide me; he shall set me up upon a rock.
thanks, right back to you! good verse. :)
[[I am extremely afraid of going through the Tribulation.]]
I’m pretrib- but don’t be afraid IF we have to endure soem of the trib- to put your mind at ease- read tim lahaye’s ‘left behind’ series- it’s semi fiction that kind of describes how things might play out during the tribulation- God will take care of His own in miraculous ways (although I beleive the left behind series talsk abotu God taking care of people that are saved AFTER the church is raptured, as thsoe left behind begin to realize that their Christian friends were right all along’
There will msotl ikely be peopel with great finacial means who get saved shortly after the rapture, who will then provide for God’s peopel durign hte tribulation (and htere’s even soem suggestion that peopel with illnesses deformities etc, will be cured durign hte trib so that they will be fit to defend Israel, the refuge, where they will flock to to defend the Jews
IF we have to go through the trib, it’ll be rough, but doable- Things will defiantely DRASTICALLY change for us- no doubt- However, I beleive we will have supernatural protectiosn even if we are to be martyred- where God gives us supernatural strength to handle beign martyred if God so deems it necessary for us- There are written reports abotu Christians who were beign tortured singing and happily looking forward to meetign Christ- God gave them the supernatural power to endure the ordeal- I beleive that if it coems to that- we too will be enowed with htis power from on high
[[I’m probably one of those who’d end up taking the Mark in order for my wife and kids to survive, knowing it’ll send me to an eternal Hell]]
If you’re a born again Christian, even takign hte mark will NOT send you to hell- ‘No man can remove the saved’s name from the lambs book of life- not even you yourself- True salvation is eternal- regardless of what we do after we becoem saved-
Don't worry though,Peter denied Jesus three times but later was out preaching in public on pain of death.
Don't think for a moment that God is doing 'nothing' in you."Be not afraid, only believe." (Mark 5:36)
1. In Revelation after John is carried to Heaven to observe there is no more mention of the Church on Earth. John being carried up to Heaven represents the rapture. During all the things that are going on on Earth mentioned in Revelation, none included any mention of the Church.
2. Yes there will be saints on Earth during the Tribulation because many people will be saved during that tribulation.
****the sixth seal, has the sealing of the 144,000 (an angel states that harm to the earth can not happen until they are sealed) from Israel****
Mark 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in the heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
Jesus told the ruling Pharisees that He would not come until they called out his name. There is an Old Testament story where Joseph has a dream of the Sun Moon and Stars...“Listen,” he said, “I had another dream, and this time the sun and moon and eleven stars were bowing down to me.”
Then he told his father and brothers and this is what Israel said to him...”When he told his father as well as his brothers, his father rebuked him and said, “What is this dream you had? Will your mother and I and your brothers actually come and bow down to the ground before you?”
Joseph’s father Israel rightly interpreted the dream as describing the house of Israel as the Son, the Moon and the Stars(11 stars plus Joseph for the twelve tribes of Israel).
I think it means that Jesus will not come back until the 144,000 from the tribes of Israel fall on their knees and call out for his return.
There is not none verse of Scripture that supports or validates post-Trib mythology.
This is the promise from Jesus Christ Himself that settles the entire issue:
‘Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. (Revelation 3:10)
The picture of the church is Enoch who, as God tells us, was a righteous man who walked with God and was "raptured" before the flood.
It is the tribulation that generates the rapture of the Saints. The discomfort and feeling of pure hell is a strong motivator to focus on God for your strength.
We are in that period right now.
Matthew 24: 23 Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look! Here is the Messiah!’ or ‘There he is!’—do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and produce great signs and omens, to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. 25 Take note, I have told you beforehand. 26 So, if they say to you, ‘Look! He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out. If they say, ‘Look! He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
If you understand verse 27, you will understand the rapture and also understand that Jesus is already here. Being “raised up” can also mean “grown up” as in the seeds planted in the wheat field when they are ready for harvest.(Matthew 13) or waking up, since we have been asleep.
This is so simple, I wish everyone could experience it. Just follow the focus of your prayers and you will see.
We are in very interesting times.
“Rapture IS the Coming of the Lord”
Just as Jesus stated after going through the dark night of the soul, “My Father and I are One.”
And I am in My Father and My Father is in Me, and if you are also in Me then My Father that is in Me is also in you. (Communion is merely us recognizing that Christ is in us.)
The tribulation is to the Saints what the dark night of the soul was to Jesus. It is a period of letting go of our anchors (or ballast) in order that our consciousness can “raise up.” When we raise up, we wake up and see that Jesus is already here. In the east and west at the same time as Jesus exists within us, and we also exist in Him. The experience of tribulation causes us to climb higher on the ladder to a level where we can “see.”
One of the attributes of the soul going through this experience is that your conscious awareness is no longer limited to the physical body and the five senses. That is what Paul was referring to when he spoke of “dying daily.” It is a dying of our attachment to our bodies.
When this happened to me, it really freaked me out as I became aware of the thoughts of people around me as their thoughts become physical tangible objects when perceived by my soul. It also became relatively easy to know the life history of a person around me as all the memories of their experiences are stored in their soul like billboards, available for all to see.
The “Tower of Babel” concept also applies to consciousness. And just as the Dutch atomic physicist Neils Bohr discovered with electrons lowering themselves to an inner orbital give off a photon, when Jesus’ consciousness lowers to us, we see it give off the light of the Holy Spirit. This is the reason that God is Light. Jesus just wants us to raise up to him.
Prayer is the tool to find, experience and see Jesus.
Since Noah’s family was the only small group of people left alive on the earth, in a sense we ALL were on that ark with them, in the seed of their mortal bodies - we had to have been. - Irvin Baxter has an interesting program (End of the Age) on Bible prophecy on the Christian programming tv channels during the week; he also has changed his thinking on this rapture timing. Not that it matters; but for sure, counting on things to go as we plan isn’t advisable. Of course, we are to pray to “escape all these things that must soon come to pass”, but that may possibly just mean to be held up through whatever comes.
You can do it. What is this life in the context of eternity?
Read the history of the martyrs of the church.
The state of our souls is what’s important, not when we leave this planet.
You’re not reading anything wrong. That’s exactly what scripture teaches. The symbolism of the trumpets ties in with one of the holy days of the Christ, the Feast of Trumpets (Leviticus 23). Some Christians indeed go through the tribulation. There are indications however that others are protected by God on earth and aren’t affected much by it. Can’t think of the verses right now and am trying to get to work!
If it could be known for certain, it would have already been settled.
The key is to spiritually prepare yourself to go through it, persevering. If a rapture happens before the worst of it, it’s a bonus.
I always wondered how there could be a great falling away, as Christ spoke of. I wonder if it is those that, planning on being rescued, lose faith when this supposed per-trib rapture doesn’t happen, and they have not understood the need to persevere...
Prepare yourselves spiritually. Read Ephesians to remind yourselves what this battle really is, and read the history of the martyrs that died, often horrendously, persevering in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
If Christ didn’t save those countless from the worst, then we should be looking at their examples and gird ourselves with the armor of God so that we can stand.
I believe we are living in that time right now...apostasy everywhere.
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