“A Lutheran Ordinariate? That’s a Bad Sign”

La Stampa-Vatican Insider ^ | 1-22-13 | Alessandro Speciale

[marshmallow]

The Secretary of the International Lutheran Federation has rejected the proposal presented again about a day or so ago by the Prefect of the former Holy Office

An ordinariate for Lutherans who wish to re-enter into communion with the Vatican, whilst preserving their traditions at least partially? The idea of extending the solution offered by Pope Benedict XVI to groups of traditionalist Anglicans to followers of Martin Luther was suggested for the first time by the President of the Pontifical Council for Christian Unity, Cardinal Kurt Koch.

But just as the proposal is being put forward again by the Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Mgr. Gerhard Ludwig Müller, it is beginning to trigger heated protests and concerns among the Catholic Church’s ecumenical partners –as happened with the Anglican Church.

The creation of an ordinariate – intended for those groups of Anglicans that wish to join the Catholic Church but also maintain their own identity – was “not Rome’s idea; it originates in the Anglican Church,” Koch said last 30 October. “The Holy Father looked for a solution and found a wide-reaching one which took into account the Anglican Church’s ecclesial and liturgical traditions. If the Lutherans made a similar request - he went on to say - we will have to consider their situation carefully. But the initiative remains in the hands of the Lutherans.”

The issue was recently addressed by Mgr. Müller. The German theologian chosen by Pope Benedict XVI to lead the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, recognised that the “Lutheran world is different to the Anglican one because Anglicanism has always had an element that is closer to Catholicism.” But this would not stop the Church from allowing Lutheran groups to convert to Catholicism, preserving “legitimate traditions developed” over the......

[Cronos]

Please note that followers of Martin Luther is what the JOURNALIST wrote, not the Pope or anyone else. It's a wrong term and should not be used. Lutheran or Evangelical Lutheran is the right sub-division of these Christians

[Cronos]

hi JCB, Arrogantbustard -- both redgolum and Mr. Lucky are FR FRiends of mine and I respect their ability to disagree with us Catholics and yet not smear mud, leave alone jump on the "I haf caflix" band-wagon.

This is true of nearly all Lutherans on FR

Using the term "followers of Luther" was what the journalist wrote and, like most journalists, is stupid.

We Catholics on FR have enough of silly names tossed at us, we should not do that to our Lutheran Christian brethren.

The Lutherans believe in Trinitarian Christianity, in the True Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. They even have the sacrament of Confession (though in a lesser form) and have beliefs close to us in orthodoxy

that's the Lutheran parish here in Warsaw

I beg you to refrain from using antagonistic words with our Lutheran Christian brethren -- we can disagree in a nicer way.

[Cronos]

And considering that this site has some who constantly claim that
1. Lutherans are not “real” Christians.
2. Lutherans worship Luther.

I can see some getting touchy about it. In fact I expect a few to arrive shortly, who will start saying that Lutherans are indeed damned.

Red -- THIS Catholic will vehemently argue against any who say that.

I agree with Red when he says In Germany and other Baltic states, those synods are often called “Evangelical”. -- I can vouch for that, though don't know if it is a slur.

[Cronos]

AB -- I agree with red that usage of the term "followers of L" is just incorrect if not a slur

Red -- note that the term Lutheran doesn't seem to be a slur in Poland among Lutherans (not sure about other countries). This is what they call their center here in Warsaw

But the Church is called "Ewangelicko-Augsburg" -- "Evangelical Augsburg".

I, as a Catholic, strongly oppose calling our Lutheran brethren as 'followers of L' -- but, tell me, red/Mr. Lucky -- is the term "Lutheran" ok to you two?

[Cronos]

you are correct, JCB, we have a lot to pray together with our Lutheran friends. Unity at least on common points of orthodoxy should be upheld and we should all stay away from Catholic-Lutheran spats (disagreements are a different thing :)

[Cronos]

“diety of the” — new diet? :)

[Cronos]

“diety of the” — new diet? :) Well, after all, an Italian meal, while nice, doesn’t have enough meat compared to a good heavy German meal :)

[Cronos]

if “Papa Benny” doesn’t correct Cd. Koch, he affirms the rhetoric.

but cletus,Cardinal Koch did not use that term "followers of L" -- the journalist used that term.

[Cronos]

Evangelical-Augusburgians is good for me to refer to our friends like Mr.L and redgolum

[Cronos]

well, the term has changed -- see Vatican to America: ‘Social Justice’ is About Relationships, Not Socialism

Peter Cardinal Turkson, President of the Vatican’s Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace, has a message for Catholics in America, particularly those involved in social justice ministry, that could put a damper on the political machinations of the Shadow Party.

Cardinal Turkson: It would be useful if we just observed our sense of justice as our ability to fulfill the demands of the relationships in which we stand.

This is in contrast to socialism, he explained, which is an ideology in which private property and private interests are totally placed in the service of government policies. What the Pope proposes in ‘Caritas in Veritate,’ said Cardinal Turkson, is ‘achieving the common good without sacrificing personal, private interests, aspirations and desires.’

Cardinal Turkson said the Council was also surprised that the Pope’s concept of the ‘gift,’ was perceived in some circles as encouraging government welfare handouts. In ‘Caritas in Veritate,’ Pope Benedict described the concept of “gift” as a way to understand God’s love for men and women in his gift of life and his gift of Jesus.

One of the key principles of Catholic social thought is known as the principle of subsidiarity.

This tenet holds that nothing should be done by a larger and more complex organization which can be done as well by a smaller and simpler organization.

In other words, any activity which can be performed by a more decentralized entity should be. This principle is a bulwark of limited government and personal freedom. It conflicts with the passion for centralization and bureaucracy characteristic of the Welfare State.

[Cronos]

It’s rather silly how we argue about what stupid words a stupid journalist uses... :)

[Mr. Lucky]

Lutheran is fine. There are, or course, a number of different Lutheran synods of varying degrees of orthodoxy. We more traditional Lutherans will often refer to ourselves as Confessional Lutherans.