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ZOT: If The Pope Asked Me how to attract more to the Catholic Church, pagans, & stray lambs too
San Rafael Blue

Posted on 02/16/2013 12:47:21 PM PST by San Rafael Blue

The very notion that His Holiness, The Pope, way over there in Rome (Vatican) would ask me anything at all is of course, somewhat ludicrous and highly unlikey, to say the least. That is my initial disclaimer and statement of humility before I even start my excercise of answering questions I have not been seriously asked. Still, in the privacy of my home, I hold opinions, and by the miracle of this internet connection, I can speak to you by the press of a button. So, with that said, let's talk for a bit. Anyone could hold a valid point of view, other Catholics, other Christians, other spiritually anchored inhabitants of the planet, plus the leigions of scientists, teachers, and those who study knowledge for it's own sake. We are all entitled to form, hold and express a point of view when appropriate.

If The Catholic Church took a few years and asked it's millions of followers to give their opinion of how we could attract and keep more followers, plus how could we Catholics have a greater positive influence within this earthbound shared state of existence, there would be a variety of responses. Some would say, change nothing, let the new converts to our religion change to suit our requirements. Others may say, let's consider areas where being flexible would be beneficial and not necessarily a sign that Catholics are over-compromising or abandoning their core beliefs.

I would fit into the second catagory for the most part. I would have the Catholic Church consider the benefits of allowing women to become priests. I did not always feel that way. Take a good look at the momentum of christianity in the western world, for the most part, christianity is either in retreat or in a state of slowed growth. The severe economic struggles of europe has weighed heavily on the old, traditional lifestyles. Many in europe are told not to think of themselves as citizens of any particular country anymore, rather they are part of the European Union, a faceless formless blob of ever-expanding bureaucracy. When there is less parochial ownership, there is often less community participation. Much the same phenomena of lost identity is encouraged here in the states. Less of the really qualified, worthy people are willing to take leadership positions, because they may not want to deal with the personal attacks that come from being contrary.

All this is to say fewer men are training to be priests. If there are qualified, enthusiastic christian women who wish to offer leadership, willing to teach the highlights of a Christian life made of love, compassion, honesty, hard work and personal responsibility, I say let them do it, with a full heart and ready support from the Church.

We should also open the priesthood up to people who are married, have been married. This is not an easy world to stay alone in, if one wishes to lead a pure life. Not easy being prayerfully alone in a society that is lined with temptation, benign rationalisation of behaviors and opportunity to act out suffering no apparent consequence. I'm not saying one should surrender to the ID, live as a libertine and be held to no standards of behavior at all. That's not what I mean. Rather, I see that an update, an adjustment of expectations is long overdue. We catholics should widen the tent, not narrow it.

I think we catholics have three choices in a particular area of discussion, that being Gay Priests or Gayness in general. We could become more inclusive without showing prejudice, meaning the entire Catholic Church may be given the option, but not the obligation to observe Gay Priests or Gay Marriage or that lifestyle. We could form a version of the christian faith that allows for this. Or we could continue to not support Gay christians in any way except to pray for their presumeably lost souls. That is or right as a private organiation. If we decide to keep the Gay out, as it were, we need to be ready to become heavily devested of finances by many sources. Laws and social mores have changed in ways I would never, ever have predicted. I do not think there will be a great reversal anytime soon.

The Catholic Church has given much to the world, with its' churches, schools, hospitals and social agencies. One would hope Our Church will continue to help this world. This is not simple predictament. The Catholic Church has had to drop hundreds of foster parents and close many adoption agencies because they did not allow gay adoption. This is truly a difficult problem, where I can see both sides. Could we not have both kinds of families in some manner, without needing to destroy the other lifestyle?

There should be room for both. Adoption agencies already have certain foster familes that care for children with certain needs, be they physical or psychiatric. Perhaps the same can be done with sexuality, once the child is of appropriate age that it must be dealth with.

I chose to examine the consideration of officially changing some aspects of The Catholic Church in order to make it easier to include more good people, and spend less time, money in keeping them out of the faith. In future writings we will explore other ways in which this could occurr. I'd be very interested to get your point of view, pro or con (just be respectful).

Thank You; California Christian


TOPICS: Catholic; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: catholic; homosexualagenda; notcatholic; zot
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1 posted on 02/16/2013 12:47:26 PM PST by San Rafael Blue
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To: San Rafael Blue

News flash: The Bible was created to change people, not the other way around.


2 posted on 02/16/2013 12:54:10 PM PST by Fido969
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To: San Rafael Blue

“Could we not have both kinds of families in some manner, without needing to destroy the other lifestyle?”

Nope. Are you really Catholic?


3 posted on 02/16/2013 12:55:48 PM PST by ebb tide
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To: San Rafael Blue
"We could form a version of the christian faith that allows for this"

Say what now?

4 posted on 02/16/2013 1:00:08 PM PST by CatherineofAragon (Support Christian white males---the architects of the jewel known as Western Civilization)
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To: San Rafael Blue
We should also open the priesthood up to people who are married, have been married. This is not an easy world to stay alone in, if one wishes to lead a pure life. Not easy being prayerfully alone in a society that is lined with temptation, benign rationalisation of behaviors and opportunity to act out suffering no apparent consequence.
Those priests who are close to Jesus in the Eucharist find no difficulty being alone (for they never really are). Read about any of the saints' lives. In fact, it's finding that quiet time with Christ that is so difficult even as an unmarried priest. As far as women priests, would you REALLY want to go to a woman for confession? Do you wish your sins to be whispered to all who pass her way?

The types of changes you suggest are already out there under the names of various denominations. I would like to know why you desire to remain Catholic? What does the faith mean to you?
5 posted on 02/16/2013 1:07:32 PM PST by mlizzy (If people spent an hour a week in Eucharistic adoration, abortion would be ended. --Mother Teresa)
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To: San Rafael Blue

I didn’t ask you either.


6 posted on 02/16/2013 1:07:32 PM PST by Last Dakotan
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To: San Rafael Blue

Say what?


7 posted on 02/16/2013 1:08:04 PM PST by Darksheare (Try my coffee, first one's free.....)
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To: San Rafael Blue

No barf alert ?


8 posted on 02/16/2013 1:08:26 PM PST by MNDude (Guns don't kill people, Democrats kill people)
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To: San Rafael Blue
Episcopal Church USA has everything you want... women priests, married priests, gay rights. I think you'll be very happy there.

And they're growing like gangbusters with the formula you prescribe. /sarcasm.
9 posted on 02/16/2013 1:14:57 PM PST by irishjuggler
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To: San Rafael Blue

In other words the author wants the Catholic Church to be a Protestant Church. Why? There are those now that have women priests and gay bishops.


10 posted on 02/16/2013 1:17:34 PM PST by ex-snook (God is Love)
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To: San Rafael Blue
I would have the Catholic Church consider the benefits of allowing women to become priests.

The Episcopagan Church Welcomes You.

I did not always feel that way.

It's not a matter of feeeeeelings.

11 posted on 02/16/2013 1:18:21 PM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: San Rafael Blue

I would rather you leave the Catholic Church than have more Freaks come in.


12 posted on 02/16/2013 1:20:11 PM PST by Berlin_Freeper
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To: San Rafael Blue

I will never understand why somebody who doesn’t agree with a certain religion’s teachings, simply doesn’t leave that religion for one that better suits them.

Nobody is making you stay a Catholic, so if you don’t like it leave.


13 posted on 02/16/2013 1:24:20 PM PST by beandog (All Aboard the Choo Choo Train to Crazy Town)
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To: San Rafael Blue


Viking Kitty Theme


14 posted on 02/16/2013 1:33:27 PM PST by Religion Moderator
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To: San Rafael Blue
I'm not saying one should surrender to the ID, live as a libertine and be held to no standards of behavior at all. That's not what I mean.

***************************

Whew! That's a relief! I confess that I was growing a bit concerned prior to this statement.

15 posted on 02/16/2013 1:39:26 PM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: San Rafael Blue; vox_freedom; trisham; RedMDer; Jim Robinson
I didn't read your scribe.

Here's what I would do immediately

Excommunicate ALL pro-abortion advocates holding elected public office.

Excommunicate ALL gay marriage advocates holding elected public office.

The teachings of the Roman Catholic Church are clear.

It's past time to permit those politicians to insult God.
16 posted on 02/16/2013 1:46:52 PM PST by onyx (FREE REPUBLIC IS HERE TO STAY! DONATE MONTHLY! IF YOU WANT ON SARAH PALIN''S PING LIST, LET ME KNOW)
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To: San Rafael Blue

How does a catholic become UN-catholic?.. if indeed they were catholic in first place..
When; Not all catholics seem to be catholics.. in belief and/or action..

Maybe being catholic is like being Jewish, i.e. being born to a Jewish(catholic) mother..


17 posted on 02/16/2013 1:49:05 PM PST by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole..)
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To: onyx
I didn't read your scribe.

******************************

A wise decision. :)

18 posted on 02/16/2013 1:51:38 PM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: Religion Moderator; San Rafael Blue
Too funny. Fake "nun", Sr. Louise Akers, posts on FR as San Rafael (sic) Blue, and gets the zot! Well done Religion Mod!

Yep, the boy on the right is "sister" Louie. ROTFL

19 posted on 02/16/2013 1:56:10 PM PST by Servant of the Cross (the Truth will set you free)
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To: Servant of the Cross; NYer; Salvation

‘sister’ Louie gets the zot ping ...


20 posted on 02/16/2013 1:58:47 PM PST by Servant of the Cross (the Truth will set you free)
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To: onyx
Excommunicate ALL pro-abortion advocates holding elected public office.

Excommunicate ALL gay marriage advocates holding elected public office.

The teachings of the Roman Catholic Church are clear.

Hear, Hear!
21 posted on 02/16/2013 1:59:16 PM PST by RedMDer (May we always be happy and may our enemies always know it. - Sarah Palin, 10-18-2010)
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To: San Rafael Blue
Tolerance of sodomy, as a cultural defect, pops up from time to time in human history - usually for no more than a century or two. Then it goes away - usually with great violence.

Your argument is countered by the fact that Christianity spread through the Hellenistic world in part as a reaction against the tolerance of sodomy and sexual immorality in general.

22 posted on 02/16/2013 2:37:23 PM PST by InABunkerUnderSF (Because 2 terms with Jerry Brown as Governor was all I could take.)
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To: San Rafael Blue

Give him or her a break, the air in Marin County, where San Rafael is located, is thinner.


23 posted on 02/16/2013 2:41:46 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: Servant of the Cross

She looks a little like Mayim Bialik in “Big Bang Theory.” Both the shape of her face and the glasses are similar. The hair, though ... Ne Zot!


24 posted on 02/16/2013 3:12:50 PM PST by Tax-chick (Oh, what's the point?)
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To: San Rafael Blue

The tell:

Notice what words the author chose to honor with initial capital letters — and which they did not:

“I think we catholics have three choices in a particular area of discussion, that being Gay Priests or Gayness in general”


25 posted on 02/16/2013 3:23:56 PM PST by Chad N. Freud (FR is the modern equivalent of the Committees of Correspondence. Let other analogies arise.)
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To: Servant of the Cross; NYer; Salvation
Sister Louie??

More like Calypso Louie in drag, not sister anyone.

26 posted on 02/16/2013 3:35:15 PM PST by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: CatherineofAragon
We could form a version of the christian faith that allows for this.

Yes we could.

We just couldn't call it "Catholicism".

27 posted on 02/16/2013 3:39:01 PM PST by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: Servant of the Cross; TheOldLady

... Zotted, right?


28 posted on 02/16/2013 3:54:50 PM PST by momtothree
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To: DuncanWaring

It couldn’t be called Christianity at all.


29 posted on 02/16/2013 4:14:35 PM PST by CatherineofAragon (Support Christian white males---the architects of the jewel known as Western Civilization)
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To: San Rafael Blue
There's a word for what you describe. Episcopal.
30 posted on 02/16/2013 4:30:09 PM PST by Darren McCarty (If most people were more than keyboard warriors, we might have won the election)
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To: San Rafael Blue

Gave yerself a good whacking there.

Nice. Don’t usually see anyone bitch slap themselves off the board.

Buh-Bye...


31 posted on 02/16/2013 4:49:58 PM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: San Rafael Blue

Mission of the church is:

“Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age” (Matt. 28:19-20). “And He said to them, Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature” (Mark 16:15).

Not:

how could we Catholics have a greater positive influence within this earthbound shared state of existence,


32 posted on 02/16/2013 4:54:53 PM PST by Raycpa
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To: San Rafael Blue

” plus the leigions of scientists, teachers, and those who study knowledge for it’s own sake” I guess you haven’t been paying attention to the news in the past decade or two?

What a pantload.

For a “new version” of Christianity for gays? lol.

Hey, sin is okay if we say so!


33 posted on 02/16/2013 4:57:38 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: Servant of the Cross

That is the columnist on the left from the National Schismatic Reporter, not the sister. The sister is one of the granny types.


34 posted on 02/16/2013 5:43:39 PM PST by cutofyourjib
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To: San Rafael Blue
may be given the option, but not the obligation to observe Gay Priests or Gay Marriage or that lifestyle.

Ah, geez, another member of the Poopy Pecker Brigade.

35 posted on 02/16/2013 5:55:11 PM PST by Jeff Chandler (WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE?)
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To: Servant of the Cross; All

Sorry to be obtuse... Is that one on the right male or female?

I honestly can’t tell.


36 posted on 02/16/2013 7:07:10 PM PST by MeOnTheBeach
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To: San Rafael Blue; momtothree; humblegunner; darkwing104; 50mm; Arrowhead1952; LUV W; Eaker; ...

So long, San Rafael Blue (Posting History)
Hat Tip to momtothree, and awesome Religion Moderator
Homosexual-agenda pushing troll/nun wishes to change Catholicism rather than joining the Episcopal Church, rides the lightning



Your lot is wormwood and ashes



FReepmail TheOldLady to get ON or OFF the ZOT LIGHTNING ping list.

37 posted on 02/16/2013 7:25:05 PM PST by TheOldLady
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To: San Rafael Blue
I know you have already been banned but I will address this every time it comes up:

The Catholic Church has had to drop hundreds of foster parents and close many adoption agencies because they did not allow gay adoption.

The U.S. government has told the Catholic church that they must start adopting to homosexuals or lose government money. The various state Baptist Children's Homes are still very much in the adoption business and they do not adopt to homosexual "couples", never have and never will. They never have nor never will accept government funding in any manner.

A "half truth" is as bad as a flat out lie.

38 posted on 02/16/2013 7:49:53 PM PST by Graybeard58 (_.. ._. .. _. _._ __ ___ ._. . ___ ..._ ._ ._.. _ .. _. .)
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To: San Rafael Blue; 230FMJ; 50mm; A.Hun; abigailsmybaby; AFPhys; Aircop_2006; AliVeritas; Allegra; ...
If The Pope Asked Me how to attract more to the Catholic Church...

You would need more cowbells!

Please let me know if you want ON or OFF my Viking Kitty/ZOT ping list!. . . don't be shy.

39 posted on 02/16/2013 8:10:31 PM PST by darkwing104 (Let's get dangerous)
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To: San Rafael Blue; 230FMJ; 50mm; A.Hun; abigailsmybaby; AFPhys; Aircop_2006; AliVeritas; Allegra; ...
If The Pope Asked Me how to attract more to the Catholic Church...

You would need more cowbells!

Please let me know if you want ON or OFF my Viking Kitty/ZOT ping list!. . . don't be shy.

40 posted on 02/16/2013 8:11:35 PM PST by darkwing104 (Let's get dangerous)
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To: ebb tide

It’s not even really Christian.


41 posted on 02/16/2013 8:15:11 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: San Rafael Blue; 50mm; darkwing104; Arrowhead1952; Darksheare; TheOldLady; Lady Jag; Chode; ...

I DO NAMETH THEE "ANDY", WHICH IS SHORT FOR "ANDROGYNOUS"!
BEGONE WITH THY FLATULENCE, THOU PUTRESCENT VOLE!

42 posted on 02/16/2013 8:24:06 PM PST by Old Sarge (We are officially over the precipice, we just havent struck the ground yet...)
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To: San Rafael Blue

You got the zot.

And this before you were able to get your shotgun with the bullets...


43 posted on 02/16/2013 8:25:58 PM PST by Jet Jaguar
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To: darkwing104


Proud to pile on the bloated corporeal sac of this misbegotten spawn of Satan!




Keep Faith with the Fallen of Benghazi! Let the Obama Regime, for once, tell the Truth!

Fiat Justitia, Ruat Coelum!

Genuflectimus non ad principem sed ad Principem Pacis!

Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The LORD hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name. (Isaiah 49:1 KJV)

44 posted on 02/16/2013 8:26:50 PM PST by ConorMacNessa (HM/2 USN, 3/5 Marines RVN 1969 - St. Michael the Archangel defend us in Battle!)
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To: TheOldLady
B T T T ! ! ! ©

Click here to contribute to Free Republic today!
We need it and each other
now more than ever.

45 posted on 02/16/2013 8:48:57 PM PST by vox_freedom (America is being tested as never before in its history. May God help us.)
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To: San Rafael Blue
You're already zotted, but I'll post anyway.

First, I'm not Catholic; nor was I ever. But, I don't even support women Pastors in Protestant Churches. When I was about 12, I felt called that I should go to Sunday School, and later Church service itself (no one in my family went)

So, I started attending at the local Presbyterian Church (don't remember what Convention). The Pastor was awesome and I really enjoyed being part of the Church.

When I moved, I found another Presbyterian Church to go to. Around the time I left the first Church, the Pastor left as well and they ended up with an Interim Pastor.

Anyhow, I continued to go to the second Church and something wasn't right....I started to pray about and look around for a different Church and ended up at a Baptist (SBC) Church.

Anyhow, I was back in the area of the first Church, so I decided to visit and reacquaint with old friends. The new "Pastor" was a woman (well, she was "new" to me; I hadn't been there in several years. I couldn't believe how different and empty it was compared to the (Southern Baptist) Church I was now a member of.

There were very few people attending the service and most of the people I had known were not in attendance. The was no choir (anymore); there were no children acolytes. About halfway through the service, it dawned on me......I was the only male in attendance at this service.

It was a small town Church that previously had 70-90 in attendance every Sunday; there was maybe at most a dozen, including me and my (ex)wife.

Apparently the Sunday prior the "Pastor" had queried the congregation for questions they could write down and put in the offering plate....so she could answer them the following (this) Sunday. One of the questions was about women "Pastors."

The "Pastor's" response to the question was vague, unconvincing, and lacking any type of substance; loosely related to the Bible mentioning women ministering to this person or that.

I'm not Catholic, and I probably never will be. I've debated various aspects of Christianity with Catholics, probably a few on this thread. But, I use this as a guide:

And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us. But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. For he that is not against us is on our part. For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward. Mark 9 38-41

I'm not against "them," nor do I believe they are against me, but rather we are for Christ together.

The point of that is to say if women "Priests" are against the tenets and doctrine of Catholicism, then by no means should they change, for this is what the Lord has called for them. Likewise, the same for Protestants, for we are told:

But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works. Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety. 1 Timothy 2:10-15.

As a side note, In Church one Sunday, we had a guest Pastor. And he was discussing a poll that had been conducted. I don't remember the exact numbers, but some of the biggest reasons young people provided for why they didn't attend Church -

They didn't know what the Church stood for

The Church seemed hypocritical

When we play choose your own adventure cafeteria Christianity, we play exactly into that (Catholics and Protestants alike). We appear to not have any core beliefs; or at least that we don't adhere to any of them.

As another poster mentioned, the Bible is there to change the world; not for the world to change the Bible.

Further, the Word is God and God is the Word; the Lord's Prayer is "Thy Will be done," not 'God bend to my will.'

46 posted on 02/16/2013 8:56:09 PM PST by Repeat Offender (What good are conservative principles if we don't stand by them?)
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To: San Rafael Blue
Oops, you've chosen the wrong church, and the wrong website to post this tripe.
Try this one:

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

47 posted on 02/16/2013 8:57:37 PM PST by vox_freedom (America is being tested as never before in its history. May God help us.)
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To: ex-snook
In other words the author wants the Catholic Church to be a Protestant Church. Why? There are those now that have women priests and gay bishops. *** I think you mean that the author wants a liberal church. Small c church too. I'm Lutheran and I'm disgusted with this tripe, so don't paint all non-Catholics with the same brush.
48 posted on 02/16/2013 9:02:17 PM PST by Luircin
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To: San Rafael Blue
Say there, San Rafael Blue,
so is this your idea of a bishop and his "husband"? How sweet...

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

49 posted on 02/16/2013 9:03:11 PM PST by vox_freedom (America is being tested as never before in its history. May God help us.)
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To: darkwing104

Thanks for the ping. There is a consistency amongst liberals. To them the Constitution is a living document that can mean anything they project into it. Religion is the other, where narcissism reigns supreme. The toasted twit will never understand why he road the lightning. Liberals believe the world revolves around them and their malignant utopianism.


50 posted on 02/16/2013 9:16:37 PM PST by PA Engineer (Liberate America from the Occupation Media.)
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