Posted on 02/22/2013 5:43:18 PM PST by NYer
The author presumes that his statements are indisputable, but the actual history does NOT back up his claims. He insists that the "authority of Rome" was always understood and implies it began WITH Peter and only continued to this day. This is provably false and easily seen by anyone who is willing to take off their prejudice-tinted glasses. In reality, it wasn't until the FOURTH century that Rome, and, consequently, the Bishop of Rome, saw the establishment of superiority, jurisdiction and power over all of Christendom. What we have today, was NOT what Jesus established with Peter, but the gradual mixing of state with church and the crowning of a monarchy over ALL.
There is no need to twist the authority of Rome into a historical mishap within Christianity because there IS no authority of Rome for all Christians. The ONLY authority we have is the chief shepherd, Jesus Christ, who promised to NEVER leave us or forsake us and the Holy Scriptures, where our rule of faith resides along with the indwelling Holy Spirit, who will lead us into all truth. We don't need a human ruler or king, we have the bridegroom and we are His bride.
For anyone interested in the TRUE origins of the Roman Papacy, this exhaustive work is extremely helpful History of the Papacy.
Jesus Christ started His church, not the Catholic church which was instituted centuries later.
His church is made up of all born again Christians that have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Even Peter spoke of that.
Jesus is a Jew, and came to be the Messiah to all who would believe on His Name. He did not convert to Catholicism.
My Bible came from the Holy Spirit, not the Pope's church.
The scriptures are "God breathed" and men wrote them down.
Jesus read from scriptures in synagogues, did he do that from a Catholic Bible?
Are you speaking foolishness or from ignorance?
The Christian church is built upon and validated by the testimony and understanding given voice by the Apostle Peter, as recorded in the St. Matthew’s Gospel, Chapter 16, the 18th verse, i.e., “Thou art the Christ, the Son of the Living God;” and not in any sense on the person of Peter, nor on any unstated and undefined position of primacy accorded to him among the corps of Jesus’ immediate company of followers (those whom we call Jesus’ Disciples), that certain human interpreters have chosen without warrant to confer upon him.
The central and profound truth encompassed in Peter’s spontaneous and profound acknowledgement of who and what Jesus is manifests the sole and sufficient foundation of Christianity.
It seems pretty solid to me. Naming off the tribes is being specific, as if to make a point that it is a real number.
God did not create the human race so that 144,000 could be saved.
Hmmmm . . how do I put this diplomatically? No, that is not the total number out of all humanity "since the beginning". Those are the ones left in the last days after the judgements on earth. The survivors of the seal judgements and the wars and the plagues.
It doesn't matter where they are really. Christ is our Example. We are to follow His example. You do that and you can't go wrong. When your church deviates from the Truths in the Bible, then you are in error. That's plain enough.
Hitler youth? Were these not the children that were brainwashed in such a way that they were turning their own parents in to be killed by the Nazi’s? And he’s now pope?
WOW!!!!!Haven't seen that garbage in a couple of years!!!!Congratulations, you are now among the holocaust deniers and the UFO supporters....how quaint.
I never said that he....as a person....was protected by anyone. However, when he speaks "ex cathedra", no matter who he is or what he has done nor will do.... he is protected from error....I didn't say it, Christ did....I'll but that!
Look, Bernard Ratzinger was born in a time when the Hitler youth were forced to go to camp. He had no choice. You are pretty smug to sit in judgement on him in the comfort of your house in this country and have little comprehension of the times he went through. If you had been following along then you would know I’m no Catholic. However the Nazi angle is a dead end. If you wish to argue the points of the article they posted, go ahead. There is plenty wrong with it. But to attack a small child forced to go to camp is just plain wrong. He didn’t have a choice.
He said it, I didn't!
No offense, I mean this respectfully, but who are you to suggest God wouldn’t dare work through someone who was forced to join an organization he found repugnant? The pope had a cousin who was similar in age but disabled. The Nazis apprehended him and he was never seen again (presumably euthanized). It’s just possible that the pope learned a thing or two about evil that the rest of us should be grateful we didn’t have to learn firsthand. Peace be with you.
“petros” vs. “petra”
Everything else is noise to distract from this very basic misunderstanding.
Everyone should go look up those words and do some soul searching. Please don’t bother replying.
The first thing is to figure out what He meant by those words. It takes some studying and prayer. Not just repeating what you have been taught. Look at it from all angles. The context. The times. Was part of it prophetic? Was it literal? The easy way out is to just regurgitate what you've been told. But you are correct about one thing. He said it.
100% correct....that's why, in the 2013 year history of the Catholic Church, it has never taught anything in opposition to the teachings of Christ.....NEVER.
I appreciate your charitable demeanor and consideration that Non-Catholic Christians ARE really Christians. You say that this is a "doctrine of my church". In light of that, how does a Catholic explain the supposedly "infallible" statements from Popes such as:
“We declare, say , define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.” Pope Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam (1302 AD)
Can such a declaration just be ignored? Was Pope Boniface saying something that is NOT true or is it just not true anymore and the Catholic Church changed her mind? I am not trying to play any game here. I just wonder how Catholics can say all "true" Christians must follow the Pope to be saved but then concede that non-Catholics can also be saved who don't follow the Pope of Rome? How is this not a contradiction?
I looked at your source. Nearly every link I clicked was loaded with prejudicial statements and straw man arguments. Hardly persuasive.
You do know that “Pope” is a nickname, don’t you? His real title is “Bishop of Rome.”
on the entire planet Earth...the population of 1 small city in Iowa will be left????? O.K., if that's what you want to cling to....I think that 144,000 is representative of a large number, not a definite number, just a large one. ....I've told you a million times that you shouldn't do that!!!
Found on a random Catholic forum.
“Tha “named” saints are merely those whose lives have been outstanding enough to convince the church that they are in Heaven. It takes a little doing, nomination, a miracle or two attributed to you, and a life history justifying your canonization. Now, if the church declares that you have met these requirements....why would it not be proper to ask St, Peter, St paul et.al. to pray for us....they are in heaven and maybe they can help us!!!!”
The problem is that we don’t know they are in heaven simply because the Catholic church declares it. Christ knows who is in heaven with a certainty, but the living don’t. The fact that Catholic church does has a qualification process demonstrates that Jesus is not communicating to them who is and who is not in heaven, otherwise they wouldn’t have to rely on such earthly means.
So, they make an educated guess, and tell you it is enough for you to risk engaging in spiritualism. The Bible, on the other hand, tells us not to go anywhere near such practices, and to simply pray to God.
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