Are Mormon people LITERAL saviors of dead Jews, others? (Baptism of DEAD Top Lds mission: Vanity)

Colofornian | April 4, 2013 (slightly distinct version published on FR Oct. 31, 2011) | Colofornian

[Colofornian]

On this day – April 4, 1981 (32 years ago) – Mormon church president-”prophet” Spencer W. Kimball made an announcement about what the three-fold MISSION was of the Mormon church.

In other words, these three things were not “minor fair,” and the first two were not surprising for any given “church” (proclaim the gospel, and perfect the saints).

What was the third part?

Per Kimball, it was to “redeem the dead.” (Source: On This Day in the Church: An Illustrated Almanac of the Latter-day Saints, Eagle Gate Publishing, Salt Lake City, 2000, p. 65)

A previous string of Mormon “prophets” – John Taylor, Wilford Woodruff, Joseph F. Smith and Joseph Fielding Smith -- certainly heavily inculcated the idea among Mormons that “saviors” of the dead were plural...In other words, they weren’t talking about Jesus Christ as being “THE” Savior of the dead!

And, unlike the Bible, which places a definitive “THE” before Jesus Christ as THE Savior (John 4:42; 1 John 4:14), Mormon “prophets” have long and consistently preached that the Mormon churches produces “saviors” – plural! (Lds often cite Obadiah 21, which the KJV renders as "saviors"; the NIV makes it clear that these "deliverers" are there to govern the mountains of Esau; not become proxy saviors taking Jesus' role as Savior of the World!)

Lds “prophet” John Taylor: " ...we are the only people that know how to save our progenitors, how to save ourselves, and how to save our posterity in the celestial kingdom of God;...we in fact are the saviours of the world..." (Lds "prophet" John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, vol.6, p.163)

Taylor: "We know something about our progenitors, and God has taught us how to be saviors for them by being baptized for them in the flesh, that they may live according to God in the Spirit” (LDS "prophet" John Taylor, March 20,1870, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 14, 3/20/1870)

Lds “prophet” Wilford Woodruff: “…YOU will be recognized as Saviors upon Mount Zion…” (Teachings of Presidents: Wilford Woodruff, p. 189, 2004)

Woodruff: “WE become saviors on Mount Zion as we build temples and receive saving ordinances on behalf of the dead.” (Teachings of Presidents: Wilford Woodruff, p. 187)

Lds “prophet” Joseph Fielding Smith: “... mortals have to be saviors on Mount Zion, acting by proxy for the dead." (LDS "prophet" Joseph Fielding Smith, The Way to Perfection, p. 325)

Lds “prophet” Joseph F. Smith: “Teach your children and let yourselves be taught the fact that it is necessary for you to become saviors upon Mount Zion…” (Joseph F. Smith, Teachings of Presidents: Joseph F. Smith, p. 412, 1998)

Lds “prophet” Joseph F. Smith: “…WE have a certain work to do in order to liberate…they…are unprepared for eternal life: we have to open the door for them, by performing ordinances which they cannot perform for themselves, and which are essential to their release from the ‘prison-house,’…” (Joseph F. Smith, Ibid, p. 410)

The Christian counterclaim is that Jesus Christ has already done that, minus any ritual mumbo-jumbo performed in a man-made temple. Jesus said His personal temple – one that would zero in on death – and the only real temple worth anything regarding salvation – was the temple of His body (John 2:19-21). That body was laid on the cross. He liberated us and opened the door; we are free to walk out of the “prison-house” of our sin nature, bondage to this world, bondage to Satan, bondage to a fear of death, etc!

Lds “prophet” Joseph F. Smith emphasized that not only do Lds need to perform “every law and every requirement of the (Mormon) gospel” for themselves, but for the dead as well:

“No man can enter into the Kingdom of God but by the door and through the means that Jesus Christ has offered to the children of men. … Not a soul that has ever lived and died from off the face of this earth shall escape a chance to hear the gospel of Jesus Christ. If they receive it and obey it, the ordinances of the gospel will be performed for and in their behalf, by their kindred, or their posterity in some generation of time after them, so that every law and every requirement of the gospel of Jesus Christ shall be carried out, and the promises and requirements fulfilled for the salvation of the living and also for the salvation of the dead.” (Teachings of Presidents: Joseph F. Smith, p. 307, 1998; original source “Latter-day Saints Follow Teachings of the Savior,” Scrap Book of Mormon Literature, 2 vols. 2:561-562).

In other words, Jesus’ proxy blood didn’t fulfill the “requirements” and debt-payments and falling short of fulfilling the law. Mormon proxy sweat labor has to fulfill that. And for how many of the dead of history?

“The work of saving the dead has practically been reserved for the dispensation of the fullness of times, when the Lord shall restore all things. It is, therefore, the duty of the Latter-day Saints to see that it is accomplished. WE cannot do it all at once, but will have the 1,000 years of the millennium to do it in. In that time the work must be done in behalf of the dead of the previous 6,000 years, for all who need it.” (Lds “prophet” Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation 2:166)

[Zakeet]

The leaders of the LDS faith are good men and women striving to be good examples and do the right things. The Church is perfect but the people are not.

According to LDS doctrine, you are wrong.

In his February 26, 1980 speech at BYU titled Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet, LDS President Ezra Taft Benson maintained the Mormon Church President spoke with inerrant authority on "any matter, temporal or spiritual," was "not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time," and "would never lead the Church astray".

As far as I know, that position has never been altered, revoked or rescinded.

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

“Jesus belongs to us all - we are His. He is the Head of the Church. John 3:16. He suffered and died for Mormons, too.”

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Yes, He did die for Mormons too. You should deconvert and become a Christian, so you don’t die a Mormon trusting in your religion to give you godhood.

Hell and the penalties of sin are very real, even though the LDS denies what the scripture teaches on the subject.

[Colofornian]

Here’s what I don’t understand: Why don’t you just leave us Mormons alone? If you don’t believe it, that’s fine with us. [District13, post #24]

Okay, but please stop all missionary activity first... [Greetings_Puny_Humans_]

(Yeah, just a wee bit of irony there, eh, GPH? Here District suggests that some posters "just leave us Mormons alone" -- all as they are about to increase by 30% the # of missionaries they send out to NOT leave our doors & doorbells alone over these next years)

[Colofornian]

Or is it one of the other 47 documents that the LDS Church purchased from Hofmann and accepted as genuine? Or was it all of the above?

And these were simply a "resurrection" of the same old, same old "discernment" problem @ the head of the Mormon church. ALL: Google/Yahoo or some other search engine "The Kinderhook Plates" to see what I mean.

Or the facsimile of the funeral doc that Joseph Smith "translated" as the so-called "Book of Abraham."

[Colofornian]

Jesus belongs to us all - we are His. He is the Head of the Church.

You do realize, doncha, District, that Joseph Smith claims that Jesus -- as Head of the Church -- jettisoned "Christians" in their entirety until Smith & his ensuing "seers" came along.

So that means that ALL of our spiritual forefathers since around a few generations past Christ's death, per Joseph Smith, that is, were/are ALL "apostate."

If you go here, you'll see that the authors of the 7-volume Lds "History of the Church" were Joseph Smith himself -- and B.H. Roberts, an Lds "Seventy": History of the Church (HC) Volumes 1 - 7 (original 1902 edition), PDF

On pp. 408-409 of Vol. 6, we find Smith claiming:

"Come on! ye prosecutors! ye false swearers! All hell, boil over! Ye burning mountains, roll down your lava! for I will come out on the top at last. I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days
page 409:
of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet."

This is hardly a "we are His" Kum ba yah kind of claim by Smith, wouldn't you agree?

[Colofornian]

This is hardly a "we are His" Kum ba yah kind of claim by Smith, wouldn't you agree?

It's been about 2-3 years since I've highlighted this false "kum ba yah" front some Mormons -- and the Mormon church itself -- highlights at times.

So I elected to go back & pull out a few choice comments I made from previous FR threads from 2-3 years back:

Comment #1: Are you claiming that Mormons are "fellow Christians?" Or am I misreading this comment of yours? Did you know that the official doctrine of the Mormon church -- found in Doctrine & Covenants 1:30 -- is that the Mormon church is the "ONLY true and living church on the face of the earth"???

Did you know that official Mormon doctrine is that all Catholic, Protestant and Orthodox Christian churches are all "apostate?" (How is that any different than Muslims who label Christians as "infidels?")
Mormons love the brand name "Christian" -- so on the surface it at times sound like they want a "kum ba yah" let's-all-hug moment...but officially in their doctrines & "scriptures" label historic Christian churches and their bodies and creeds in the worst ways.

***************

...Why is it that the Mormon church can send 52,000 missionaries out accusing us of being apostates, and they can put all of this slander out 24/7 online, by their publishing houses, etc...and yet, where are YOUR accusations of the Mormon church that it is attempting to "divide and destroy" the conservative movement? Joseph Smith practiced scorched earth religio-politics and tried to hold a mass funeral for Christianity. He tried to say we were dead & buried. So Smith, and then the next generation, who enshrined his words as "scripture" (1870s) -- were they not guilty of attempting to "divide and destroy" the 19th century conservative movement? And what about contemporary Mormons who've jumped on the Smith bandwagon & likewise conclude we are corrupt and part of a false apostate church? Are they in your Kum-ba-yah camp?

Tell ya what, if we sing from the Mormon hymnal with Glenn Beck leading your new church choir, then the lyrical lines might be,
"Kum ba yah, My Mormon lord, all the Christian sects are apostates...
"Kum ba yah, My Mormon lord, all their creeds are an abomination...
"Kum ba yah, My Mormon lord, all their professors are corrupt.
"Oh, Mormon lord, Kum ba yah."

[Nifster]

not even close..unless of course you are suggesting that Joseph Smith is equal to Jesus of Nazareth (the risen Savior)

[SoConPubbie]

Jesus belongs to us all - we are His. He is the Head of the Church. John 3:16. He suffered and died for Mormons, too.

True, but what svcw stated was true as well.

Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ was NOT a Mormon.

[Tennessee Nana]

We Mormons have been instructed to only baptize our own dead relatives. We are not to baptize any others.
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and yet you Mormons DO dead dunk everyone elses dead relatives...

especially the ones who died as Christians and Jews...

and how many times is it that you have dead dunked your own jesus ???

[Tennessee Nana]

but we do with all our hearts and wish to be left alone to practice our faith and give you the same opportunity.
_________________________________________

Kid I do hope you have your tongue in your cheek...

as you wrote thast you were aware that somewhere in the world at that same time some of the 50,000 Mormon dorr-to-door salesmen were not leaving others alone nor the oppotunity...

Indeed Mormons were bothering others and pushing that pagan false rteligion of Mormonism on people at their own doords...

Kid thats not giving others any opportunity to be left alone to practice their faith....

If you Mormons truly wanted us to not object to your interferring with our beliefs you would stay away from our doors...

[Elsie]

Per Kimball, it was to “redeem the dead.”

Hell!

Mormonism can't even 'redeem' the LIVING!

By it's own figures; only about 15% of all MORMONs are going to make it to the TOP level of MORMON 'heaven'; where their GOD will dwell!

The rest of the poor saps will be left in Level Two - along with Christians - without the presence of their precious Forever Family (well; 85% of them will be there).

[Elsie]

Don’t forget: Mormons are to Christians...what Christians are to Jews....

In Mormonism; JEWS are considered to be GENTILES.

[Elsie]

(Ya know...even the Book of Mormon agrees with this statement of yours in several places...but, where Book of Mormon teachings conflicted with Joey Smith, the Mormons chose Joey!)

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It sure appears that way...

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What Joseph Smith Means to Us  (From: various sources )

 

 

 

"He (Joseph Smith) is the man through whom God has spoken... yet I would not like to call him a savior, though in a certain capacity he was a god to us, and is to the nations of the earth, and will continue to be."

- Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:321

 

 

 

 

"You call us fools; but the day will be, gentlemen and ladies, whether you belong to this Church or not, when you will prize brother Joseph Smith as the Prophet of the Living God, and look upon him as a god..."

- Herber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses 5:88

 

 

 

 

"If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by him [Joseph Smith]; if we enter our glory, it will be through the authority he has received. We cannot get around him [Joseph Smith]"

- (as quoted in 1988 Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide, p. 142)

There is "no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God"

- Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190

 

 

 

 

"I tell you, Joseph holds the keys, and none of us can get into the celestial kingdom without passing by him. We have not got rid of him, but he stands there as the sentinel, holding the keys of the kingdom of God; and there are many of them beside him. I tell you, if we get past those who have mingled with us, and know us best, and have a right to know us best, probably we can pass all other sentinels as far as it is necessary, or as far as we may desire. But I tell you, the pinch will be with those that have mingled with us, stood next to us, weighed our spirits, tried us, and proven us: there will be a pinch, in my view, to get past them. The others, perhaps, will say, If brother Joseph is satisfied with you, you may pass. If it is all right with him, it is all right with me. Then if Joseph shall say to a man, or if brother Brigham say to a man, I forgive you your sins, "Whosoever sins ye remit they are remitted unto them;" if you who have suffered and felt the weight of transgression—if you have generosity enough to forgive the sinner, I will forgive him: you cannot have more generosity than I have. I have given you power to forgive sins, and when the Lord gives a gift, he does not take it back again."

- Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p.154-155

 

 

 

 

"It is because the Lord called Joseph Smith that salvation is again available to mortal men.... If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation,"

- Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 396, 670

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They succeeded in killing Joseph, but he had finished his work.

He was a servant of God, and gave us the Book of Mormon.

He said the Bible was right in the main, but, through the translators and others, many precious portions were suppressed, and several other portions were wrongly translated; and now his testimony is in force, for he has sealed it with his blood.

As I have frequently told them, no man in this dispensation will enter the courts of heaven, without the approbation of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Jun.

Who has made this so?

Have I?

Have this people?

Have the world?

No; but the Lord Jehovah has decreed it.

If I ever pass into the heavenly courts, it will be by the consent of the Prophet Joseph.

If you ever pass through the gates into the Holy City, you will do so upon his certificate that you are worthy to pass.

Can you pass without his inspection?

No; neither can any person in this dispensation, which is the dispensation of the fulness of times.

In this generation, and in all the generations that are to come, everyone will have to undergo the scrutiny of this Prophet.

They say that they killed Joseph, and they will yet come with their hats under their arms and bend to him; but what good will it do them, unless they repent?

They can come in a certain way and find favor, but will they?

Brigham Young,

--JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES, vol. 8, p. 224

[Elsie]

There is only ONE Savior and He was NOT a mormon.

Oh YEAH?

WHICH one???

[Elsie]

I indicted you both and defended nothing.

John 3:18

Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

[Elsie]

Mark W. Hofmann, left, and LDS Church leaders N. Eldon Tanner, Spencer W. Kimball, Marion G. Romney, Boyd K. Packer and Gordon B. Hinckley examine the Anthon transcript pose for a photo-op April 22, 1980.

[Elsie]

Why don’t you just leave us Mormons alone?

Because your chosen religious organization is spreading lies about GOD, Christ, the way to Heaven, Christians in general.

HERESIES tend to GET this kind of attention from Christians who are willing a to contend for the "faith once delivered to the saints."

--Jude 1:3

[Elsie]

Oh, and you HAVE to be married.

MULTIPLE times, too!

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"Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned;

and I will go still further and say, take this revelation, or any other revelation that the Lord has given,

and deny it in your feelings, and I promise that you will be damned.

Brigham Young - JoD 3:266 (July 14, 1855)

[Elsie]

We Mormons have been instructed to only baptize our own dead relatives.

You've been 'instructed' to do a LOT of things: things that you DO not do!

(The above dire promise from your Great Living Prophet #2 should send you RUNNING to Hildale!)

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Warm weather is coming. No backyard BBQ for YOU unitl it gets COLD again!

[Elsie]

He suffered and died for Mormons, too.

Then WHY don't you accept what HE said???

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John 6:28-29

Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

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1 John 3:21-24

Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.