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What Happened to the Apostles and where their remains are today
Orbis ^ | April 26, 2013

Posted on 04/26/2013 1:28:31 PM PDT by NYer



TOPICS: Catholic; History; Orthodox Christian
KEYWORDS: apostles
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1 posted on 04/26/2013 1:28:31 PM PDT by NYer
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To: netmilsmom; thefrankbaum; Tax-chick; GregB; saradippity; Berlin_Freeper; Litany; SumProVita; ...

Catholic / Orthodox ping!


2 posted on 04/26/2013 1:29:05 PM PDT by NYer (Beware the man of a single book - St. Thomas Aquinas)
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To: NYer

I saw a History (International?) Channel on St. Peter’s Basilica as part of coverage of Pope Francis and “hidden Vatican.”

It was extremely fascinating to say the least. I would go as far as to say riveting.


3 posted on 04/26/2013 1:31:57 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (LBJ declared war on poverty and lost. Barack Obama declared war on prosperity and won. /csmusaret)
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To: NYer

I didn’t know all the apostles’ remains but Judas are accounted for.


4 posted on 04/26/2013 1:32:27 PM PDT by skeeter
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To: NYer

I had an opportunity to go to several of the Roma churches....my favorite was Paul’s church.
It is simply beautiful, I was sad so few people were visiting but that allowed us to see the incredible artwork up close.
Very interesting chart, that is a keeper.


5 posted on 04/26/2013 1:33:43 PM PDT by svcw (If you are dead when your heart stops, why aren't you alive when it starts.)
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To: skeeter

He runs the GOP these days.


6 posted on 04/26/2013 1:34:44 PM PDT by Norm Lenhart
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To: skeeter; NYer

Neither did I. This is really cool, thanks NYer.


7 posted on 04/26/2013 1:37:38 PM PDT by FourtySeven (47)
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To: NYer

bump


8 posted on 04/26/2013 1:37:46 PM PDT by Rumplemeyer (The GOP should stand its ground - and fix Bayonets)
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To: NYer

It is interesting how they were tortured and murdered. And what they built survives to this day.

It is a reminder that Christians must be prepared to stand up for their faith even when threatened.


9 posted on 04/26/2013 1:39:16 PM PDT by detective
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To: NYer; trisham; vox_freedom

Saving.
Thanks very much for this posting.


10 posted on 04/26/2013 1:39:42 PM PDT by onyx (Please Support Free Republic - Donate Monthly! If you want on Sarah Palin's Ping List, Let Me know!)
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To: NYer
How do they verify their claims? Sure, the church has a tradition and there's somebody buried in the various locations, but how can they say with certainty "this is the Mathias," etc.? Are there known descendants to test against or some obvious indicia of authenticity?
11 posted on 04/26/2013 1:46:07 PM PDT by Trod Upon (Every penny given to film and TV media companies goes right into enemy coffers. Starve them out!)
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To: freedumb2003
I saw a History (International?) Channel on St. Peter’s Basilica as part of coverage of Pope Francis and “hidden Vatican.” It was extremely fascinating to say the least. I would go as far as to say riveting.

Take a tour of the Necropolis below the Vatican! You can do it from the comfort of your own home.

Virtual Tour

12 posted on 04/26/2013 1:48:01 PM PDT by NYer (Beware the man of a single book - St. Thomas Aquinas)
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To: svcw
my favorite was Paul’s church.

St. Paul Outside the Walls?

You can revisit it here. Enjoy!

13 posted on 04/26/2013 1:52:18 PM PDT by NYer (Beware the man of a single book - St. Thomas Aquinas)
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To: NYer

Hey, thanks. What a great link.


14 posted on 04/26/2013 1:57:30 PM PDT by svcw (If you are dead when your heart stops, why aren't you alive when it starts.)
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To: svcw

I was able to visit the place where St. Thomas martyred in India. The entire place felt so Holy.


15 posted on 04/26/2013 2:07:10 PM PDT by MNDude (Sorry for typos. Probably written on a smartphone, and I have big clumsy fingers.)
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To: NYer

Very interesting.
Only one died a natural death.


16 posted on 04/26/2013 2:09:21 PM PDT by kidd
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To: Trod Upon

Good question.


17 posted on 04/26/2013 2:14:20 PM PDT by Lent
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To: MNDude
I completely understand.
We went to Emphasis to view the ruins.

Saw the amphitheater Paul(or Peter) preached, walked the streets that Mary and James walked.......it gave me the shivers.
My granddaughter just kept saying Mary was here......
We saw a little chapel that had been dedicated to her, folk lore had it that was the place she liked to go and pray.

There were these great columns along the walkway to the amphitheater and one was about three feet higher than the others and it was called the column of James.

I just love that these areas are still there, and we can walk on the same streets these mighty people of God walked.

18 posted on 04/26/2013 2:15:35 PM PDT by svcw (If you are dead when your heart stops, why aren't you alive when it starts.)
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To: NYer

Thanks. Informative and interesting post!


19 posted on 04/26/2013 2:16:48 PM PDT by Steelfish (ui)
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To: NYer

The virtual tour is awesome. The actual tour is beyond belief. You go in a group of 12, only allowed in with a guide who is highly educated on what you will see, and lectures throughout the tour.

Standing about 12 feet from St. Peter’s grave is quite an experience.

The entry about St. Andrew’s death reminded me of the church (can’t remember the name) in Rome that has a large painting depicting his cruxifiction. The painting will stop you in your tracks. I wandered into the church not knowing it was there and was not prepared.


20 posted on 04/26/2013 2:17:53 PM PDT by SaxxonWoods (....Let It Burn....)
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To: NYer

Where`s St. John the Baptist?
Where`s St. Mark? Where`s St. Barnabas? Where`s St. Luke?

?


21 posted on 04/26/2013 2:27:22 PM PDT by bunkerhill7 (("The Second Amendment has no limits on firepower"-NY State Senator Kathleen A. Marchione.))
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To: freedumb2003

If it was on the History Channel I’m shocked it did not say all of the Apostles were evacuated to the Mother Ship. (they were all Ancient Aliens, dontcha know...)


22 posted on 04/26/2013 2:27:44 PM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: NYer

Anyone going to Rome reserve the scavi tour under St. Peter’s early.


23 posted on 04/26/2013 2:30:09 PM PDT by morphing libertarian
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To: NYer

Interesting.
I never thought about the remains.


24 posted on 04/26/2013 2:34:47 PM PDT by Verbosus (/* No Comment */)
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To: NYer

bttt


25 posted on 04/26/2013 2:37:19 PM PDT by Guenevere (....)
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To: NYer
A church in Patras, Greece (Ayios Andreas), claims to have the head of St. Andrew, along with portions of the cross he was crucified on. It was returned by Pope Paul VI after being taken to Italy in 1460 by Thomas Palaiologos. A rival tradition says the relics of St. Andrew had been taken to Scotland much earlier than that.

A church in Heraklion, Crete, claims to have the head of St. Titus, the associate of St. Paul.

26 posted on 04/26/2013 2:44:34 PM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: NYer

bookmark


27 posted on 04/26/2013 2:50:12 PM PDT by DFG ("Dumb, Dependent, and Democrat is no way to go through life" - Louie Gohmert (R-TX))
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To: Trod Upon
Has anyone ever done a DNA test on known descendants of King Tutakhamun to make sure that really was him buried in that tomb?

How about living descendants of Ulysses S. Grant - when was the last time they cracked the tomb open and did a tissue sample?

And how do we know these descendants are really descendants?

28 posted on 04/26/2013 3:07:31 PM PDT by wideawake
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To: NYer
If one can suppress the gag reflex long enough to try a Martin Sheen movie, I can highly recommend, The Way

. The story unfolds during a pilgrimage to the Cathedral of Santiago de Compostela, which houses the remains of St. James. The physical journey takes on a spiritual component for all the parties involved. It's not an overtly Catholic, or even, "religious" film per se, and yet, IMHO, most any one watching it will end up reflecting on the direction their life is taking and how they set their priorities (and by extension, the role relics and tradition can play in that capacity).

It's not a perfect film, but a very good and accessible story for persons at most any level of spiritual development.

Just my $0.02.

29 posted on 04/26/2013 3:10:55 PM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Qui me amat, amat et canem meum.)
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To: svcw

“Very interesting chart, that is a keeper.”

The extraordinary thing about it is how many were martyred for their faith. It’s really hard to believe that they weren’t actually direct witnesses to the events recounted in the Christian scriptures. Otherwise, why would they willingly subject themselves to such frightful deaths? Those multiple acts of bearing witness are probably the most compelling proof of the veracity of the Christian scriptures.


30 posted on 04/26/2013 3:11:58 PM PDT by libstripper
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To: libstripper

Bingo!


31 posted on 04/26/2013 3:21:44 PM PDT by svcw (If you are dead when your heart stops, why aren't you alive when it starts.)
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To: Joe 6-pack
A college friend made the pilgrimage...said the accomodations in the movie are 10 times better than in the movie.

I enjoyed "The Way." It's entertaining plus made a lot of people aware of the pilgrimage for the first time.

32 posted on 04/26/2013 3:24:29 PM PDT by lonestar (It takes a village of idiots to elect a village idiot.)
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To: Joe 6-pack

Buen camino


33 posted on 04/26/2013 3:26:35 PM PDT by Dick Vomer (democrats are like flies, whatever they don't eat they sh#t on.)
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To: NYer

mark


34 posted on 04/26/2013 4:01:32 PM PDT by silverleaf (Age Takes a Toll: Please Have Exact Change)
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To: All

John really lucked out compared to the rest


35 posted on 04/26/2013 4:28:10 PM PDT by escapefromboston (manny ortez: mvp)
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To: escapefromboston
John really lucked out compared to the rest

Yeah, but he had to write the book reports. :-)

36 posted on 04/26/2013 5:12:47 PM PDT by Albion Wilde (Don't believe any rumors in Washington, DC until they are officially denied.)
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To: freedumb2003
"I saw a History (International?) Channel on St. Peter’s Basilica as part of coverage of Pope Francis and “hidden Vatican.”

It was extremely fascinating to say the least. I would go as far as to say riveting."

I'm going to keep an eye out for that one. Normally I avoid the History Channel's Christianity-themed shows, but it's good to know there's one worth watching.

37 posted on 04/26/2013 5:20:07 PM PDT by CatherineofAragon ( (Support Christian white males---the architects of the jewel known as Western Civilization))
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To: NYer
"Crucified" doesn't quite describe it for Bartholomew.

The manner of his death, said to have occurred at Albanopolis in Armenia, is equally uncertain; according to some, he was beheaded, according to others, flayed alive and crucified, head downward, by order of Astyages, for having converted his brother, Polymius, King of Armenia. On account of this latter legend, he is often represented in art (e.g. in Michelangelo's Last Judgment) as flayed and holding in his hand his own skin. His relics are thought by some to be preserved in the church of St. Bartholomew-in-the-Island, at Rome. His feast is celebrated on 24 August. An apocryphal gospel of Bartholomew existed in the early ages.

38 posted on 04/26/2013 5:21:06 PM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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To: annalex
My previous post quotes St. Bartholomew.
39 posted on 04/26/2013 5:26:52 PM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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To: CatherineofAragon

My secret is that when they do stuff about insects and jellyfish and the like, I also can’t change the channel.

Nature is a cruel and interesting b*tch!


40 posted on 04/26/2013 5:27:20 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (LBJ declared war on poverty and lost. Barack Obama declared war on prosperity and won. /csmusaret)
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To: freedumb2003

LOL, quite true.

(Insects are permanently off the screen in this house-—I’m phobic!)


41 posted on 04/26/2013 5:31:14 PM PDT by CatherineofAragon ( (Support Christian white males---the architects of the jewel known as Western Civilization))
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To: wideawake

But I was asking about the purported grave sites of the Apostles. Should I take your raising other issues as a concession that there is nothing backing up the claim beyond the church’s say-so? I always wonder what is behind absolute statements in matters of religious sites and relics. Is it fact or is it faith that it is fact? As for the others...Grant is probably pretty easy to verify given the short time period involved (might even be photographic evidence of the burial). Tut? There is certainly a significant amount of archaeological evidence regarding his existence and rule, but it could be anybody inside the sarcophagus. It seems odd they would mummify the wrong guy when the pharaoh was seen as a god. Not sure who would benefit from the fraud either then or millennia later, but it’s possible.


42 posted on 04/26/2013 5:36:18 PM PDT by Trod Upon (Every penny given to film and TV media companies goes right into enemy coffers. Starve them out!)
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To: svcw

In retrospect what really surprises me is that so few ministers teach the gospels in the context of how and why the apostles died. Indeed, I came to see the historical value of the apstles’ martyrdom entirely on my own. It would have been nice for at least one of my Sunday school teachers or the minister of my parents’ church to have explained the significance of those martyrdoms as proof of then historicity of the gospels. Indeed, those martyrdoms and the historical proof they provide ought to be at the core of any teaching of Christianity.


43 posted on 04/26/2013 5:37:35 PM PDT by libstripper
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To: Trod Upon; wideawake
the church’s say-so?

Often, this kind of language is a code word for "old wives' tale". However, the Church is, among other things, the oldest continually surviving historical institution today. It was vital for the Church to preserve an accurate historical record, especially of the relics and the martyrdom sites, because they were venerated as holy places and objects. Where the record is uncertain, the Church would be the first to say so. Consider, for example, the Catholic Encyclopedia reference to the martyrdom of St. Baltholomew that I quoted in #38. Would you dismiss that balanced and sober account as say-so?

44 posted on 04/26/2013 5:57:39 PM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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To: NYer

Wow. Only one natural death out of 14.
Wait. 14?


45 posted on 04/26/2013 6:03:31 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: Lancey Howard
Well, yes. 12 original apostles, Apostle Paul and apostle Mathias.

Let us go over the two evangelists who were not apostles:

Considered by early Christians as a saint, he is believed to have died a martyr, although accounts of the events do vary.

Despot George of Serbia bought the relics from the Ottoman sultan Murad II for 30,000 gold coins.[24][25][not in citation given] After the Ottoman conquest of Bosnia, the kingdom's last queen, George's granddaughter Mary, who had brought the relics with her from Serbia as her dowry, sold them to the Venetian Republic.[26] In 1992, the then Greek Orthodox Metropolitan Ieronymos of Thebes and Levathia (the current Archbishop of Athens and All Greece) requested from Bishop Antonio Mattiazzo of Padua the return of a a significant fragment of the relics of St. Luke to be placed on the site where the holy tomb of the Evangelist is located and venerated today. This prompted a scientific investigation of the relics in Padua, and by numerous lines of empirical evidence (archeological analyses of the Tomb in Thebes and the Reliquary of Padua, anatomical analyses of the remains, Carbon-14 dating, comparison with the purported skull of the Evangelist located in Prague) confirmed that these were the remains of an individual of Syrian descent who died between 72 and 416 A.D. The Bishop of Padua then delivered to Metropolitan Ieronymos the rib of St. Luke that was closest to his heart to be kept at his tomb in Thebes, Greece.[24][25] Thus, nowadays, the relics of St. Luke are so divided: the body, in the Abbey of Santa Giustina in Padua; the head, in the St. Vitus Cathedral in Prague; a rib, at his tomb in Thebes.

Luke the Evangelist


1.The Martyrdom of Saint Luke the Evangelist

On this day, St. Luke the Evangelist and physician, was martyred. He was one of the 70 disciples mentioned in the tenth chapter of his gospel. He accompanied the Apostles Peter and Paul and wrote their account.

After the martyrdom of these two Apostles, he went through Rome preaching. Those who worshipped idols and the Jews in Rome agreed among themselves and went to Nero the Emperor accusing St. Luke of attracting many men to his teaching with his sorcery. Nero commanded that St. Luke be brought before him. When St. Luke knew that, he gave all the books he had to a fisherman and told him, "Take these and keep them for they will be useful to you and will show you God's way."

When St. Luke came before Nero the Emperor, the Emperor asked him, "How long will you lead the people astray?" St. Luke replied, "I am not a magician, but I am an Apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Living God." The Emperor commanded his men to cut off his right hand saying, "Cut off this hand which wrote the books." The saint replied to him, "We do not fear death, nor the departure from this world, and to realize the power of my Master." He took up his severed hand and made it reattach to its proper place, then he separated it. Those who were present marvelled and the head of the Emperor's cabinet and his wife believed as well as many others and it was said that they numbered 276. The Emperor wrote their decree and ordered that their heads be cut off together with that of the Apostle St. Luke; thus their martyrdom was completed.

They placed the body of the saint in a hair sack and cast it in the sea. By God's will, the waves of the sea brought it to an island. A believer found it, took it and buried it with great honor. This saint wrote the Gospel bearing his name and the "Acts of the Apostles" addressing his words to his disciple Theophilus who was a gentile.

The Martyrdom of Saint Luke the Evangelist (Coptic Orthodox Church)


The date of Mark's death is uncertain. St. Jerome ("De Vir. Illustr.", viii) assigns it to the eighth year of Nero (62-63) (Mortuus est octavo Neronis anno et sepultus Alexandriæ), but this is probably only an inference from the statement of Eusebius (Church History II.24), that in that year Anianus succeeded St. Mark in the See of Alexandria. Certainly, if St. Mark was alive when II Timothy was written (2 Timothy 4:11), he cannot have died in 61-62. Nor does Eusebius say he did; the historian may merely mean that St. Mark then resigned his see, and left Alexandria to join Peter and Paul at Rome. As to the manner of his death, the "Acts" of Mark give the saint the glory of martyrdom, and say that he died while being dragged through the streets of Alexandria; so too the Paschal Chronicle. But we have no evidence earlier than the fourth century that the saint was martyred. This earlier silence, however, is not at all decisive against the truth of the later traditions. For the saint's alleged connection with Aquileia, see "Acta SS.", XI, pp. 346-7, and for the removal of his body from Alexandria to Venice and his cultus there, ibid., pp. 352-8. In Christian literature and art St. Mark is symbolically represented by a lion. The Latin and Greek Churches celebrate his feast on 25 April, but the Greek Church keeps also the feast of John Mark on 27 September.

St. Mark


46 posted on 04/26/2013 6:18:30 PM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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To: svcw

Ephesus


47 posted on 04/26/2013 6:55:16 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: bunkerhill7

This last week our pastor said that St. Mark’s relics were stolen from Alexandria where he was a bishop and talken to Vienna. (I think that was the V word.)


48 posted on 04/26/2013 6:57:19 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: NYer

I am planning a trip to hike the Camino Way to Compostela, where James in buried.


49 posted on 04/26/2013 7:02:01 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion (Gone rogue, gone Galt, gone international, gone independent. Gone.)
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To: annalex
You miss my point. People accept historical traditions without comment - unless the Catholic Church, the institution that preserved the concept of history for the West, and preserved its historical records as well, attests to them.

Its testimony is immediately suspect, because it still exists and maintains its teaching 1900 years after the original skeptics said it was supposed to go away.

50 posted on 04/26/2013 7:20:28 PM PDT by wideawake
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