Posted on 06/14/2013 10:49:52 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
Amen!
Can you elaborate on that comment? I'm honestly curious as to what you're talking about.
What are the books and versus where this is mentioned? Thank you.
Yes. I would be glad to. I have contemplated what speaking in tongues is all about. I have visited churches where people openly pray in public, in tongues, and over the years I have come to the conclusion that this idea of a secret prayer language in the charismatic church is a trick of the mind.
It was not until I , as a Christian, attended a Messianic congregation that I understood that ancient Hebrew is the sound that the Lord meant.
The services about Jesus in Hebrew are eye opening.
Gobbledygook mumbo-jumbospeak.
Audible insanity is what speaking in tongues is all about.
1 Samuel 28, starting in vs 3 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20samuel%2028&version=NIV
I listen to the bible on my android through my car stereo most days on my way to and from work. It is a 2.5 hour round trip so I get heavy “single session” doses of the bible. I’m on 2 Samuel now but this whole visit to the medium was fascinating. You rarely hear sermons on it. ;-)
Read Corinthians. You cannot help but see that the “unknown” tongues are nothing but foreign languages. Nothing more.
The thing about speaking in tongues is that anyone can do it if they enter into an ecstatic state. You don’t have to be a Christian or to even believe in God. The hard part is to decipher the source of the behavior.
I would be careful in reading that instance as Samuel actually rising up. From the illustrious Matthew Henry’s commentary on those verses:
The spectre, or apparition, personating Samuel, asks why he is sent for (1Sa_28:15): Why hast thou disquieted me to bring me up? To us this discovers that it was an evil spirit that personated Samuel; for (as bishop Patrick observes) it is not in the power of witches to disturb the rest of good men and to bring them back into the world when they please; nor would the true Samuel have acknowledged such a power in magical arts: but to Saul this was a proper device of Satan’s, to draw veneration from him, to possess him with an opinion of the power of divination, and so to rivet him in the devil’s interests.
II. Saul makes his complaint to this counterfeit Samuel, mistaking him for the true; and a most doleful complaint it is: “I am sorely distressed, and know not what to do, for the Philistines make war against me; yet I should do well enough with them if I had but the tokens of God’s presence with me; but, alas! God has departed from me.” He complained not of God’s withdrawings till he fell into trouble, till the Philistines made war against him, and then he began to lament God’s departure. He that in his prosperity enquired not after God in his adversity thought it hard that God answered him not, nor took any notice of his enquiries, either by dreams or prophets, neither gave answers immediately himself nor sent them by any of his messengers. He does not, like a penitent, own the righteousness of God in this; but, like a man enraged, flies out against God as unkind and flies off from him: Therefore I have called thee; as if Samuel, a servant of God, would favour those whom God frowned upon, or as if a dead prophet could do him more service than the living ones. One would think, from this, that he really desired to meet with the devil, and expected no other (though under the covert of Samuel’s name), for he desires advice otherwise than from God, therefore from the devil, who is a rival with God. “God denies me, therefore I come to thee. Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.” - If I fail with heaven, I will move hell.
III. It is cold comfort which this evil spirit in Samuel’s mantle gives to Saul, and is manifestly intended to drive him to despair and self-murder. Had it been the true Samuel, when Saul desired to be told what he should do he would have told him to repent and make his peace with God, and recall David from his banishment, and would then have told him that he might hope in this way to find mercy with God; but, instead of that, he represents his case as helpless and hopeless, serving him as he did Judas, to whom he was first a tempter and then a tormentor, persuading him first to sell his master and then to hang himself. 1. He upbraids him with his present distress (1Sa_28:16), tells him, not only that God had departed from him, but that he had become his enemy, and therefore he must expect no comfortable answer from him: “Wherefore dost thou ask me? How can I be thy friend when God is thy enemy, or thy counsellor when he has left thee?” 2. He upbraids him with the anointing of David to the kingdom, 1Sa_28:17. He could not have touched upon a string that sounded more unpleasant in the ear of Saul than this. Nothing is said to reconcile him to David, but all tends rather to exasperate him against David and widen the breach. Yet, to make him believe that he was Samuel, the apparition affirmed that it was God who spoke by him. The devil knows how to speak with an air of religion, and can teach false apostles to transform themselves into the apostles of Christ and imitate their language. Those who use spells and charms, and plead, in defence of them, that they find nothing in them but what is good, may remember what good words the devil here spoke, and yet with what a malicious design. 3. He upbraids him with his disobedience to the command of God in not destroying the Amalekites, 1Sa_28:18. Satan had helped him to palliate and excuse that sin when Samuel was dealing with him to bring him to repentance, but now he aggravates it, to make him despair of God’s mercy. See what those get that hearken to Satan’s temptations. He himself will be their accuser, and insult over them. And see whom those resemble that allure others to that which is evil and reproach them for it when they have done. 4. He foretels his approaching ruin, 1Sa_28:19. (1.) That his army should be routed by the Philistines. This is twice mentioned: The Lord shall deliver Israel into the hand of the Philistines. This he might foresee, by considering the superior strength and number of the Philistines, the weakness of the armies of Israel, Saul’s terror, and especially God’s departure from them. Yet, to personate a prophet, he very gravely ascribes it once and again to God: The Lord shall do it. (2.) That he and his sons should be slain in the battle: Tomorrow, that is, in a little time (and, supposing that it was now after midnight, I see not but it may be taken strictly for the very next day after that which had now begun), thou and thy sons shall be with me, that is, in the state of the dead, separate from the body. Had this been the true Samuel, he could not have foretold the event unless God had revealed it to him; and, though it were an evil spirit, God might by him foretel it; as we read of an evil spirit that foresaw Ahab’s fall at Ramoth-Gilead and was instrumental in it (1Ki_22:20, etc.), as perhaps this evil spirit was, by the divine permission, in Saul’s destruction. That evil spirit flattered Ahab, this frightened Saul, and both that they might fall; so miserable are those that are under the power of Satan; for, whether he rage or laugh, there is no rest, Pro_29:9.
Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part; 10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away. 1 Corinthians 13:8-10
Paul wrote that when the perfect came the partial would cease.
The “perfect” came in 70 AD, when the partial - the Law - was finally and forever done away with in the destruction of the Temple (the “reformation” of Hebrews 9).
I would strongly urge all to read the book of Hebrews to understand the significance of what the imperfect vs. the perfect meant.
Thank you. I agree. I like to bring this stuff up to discuss and also refute wnat the overt satans say/do. You answered some of my questions and demonstrated that there can often be wisdom hidden in plain sight in the bible. Your post also makes me think that this should be the subject of sermons more often.
"I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. Nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five words with my mind in order to instruct others, than ten thousand words in a tongue."
Paul points out the differences in using tongues in private vs. public settings.
In private he speaks in tongues more than anyone presumably for self-edification.
But in church the tongues should be interpreted for the benefit of others.
On other words, the apostolic understanding of perfect vs. imperfect is canonized in the book of Hebrews.
They appear to be foreign languages...
But then,,,, Paul says, 'tho I speak in tongues of men AND ANGELS,!!! What is that???
My conclusion based on 'not much' is that Adam was gifted with a language not only to speak to God with but his descendents as well...And I conclude from the verse that angels can converse with an actual language...
I have also concluded this language is probably Hebrew...
I find no language in the scriptures that justifies speaking in what Charismatics call tongues...
LOL! I honestly don't care what goes on between a person and God, because, If the person is sincere, God WILL teach him how to pray. Sometimes that may involve being still and knowing God. The concern I have over the so-called gift of tongues in use today is when people insist that, in order to be saved, one must be "filled with the Spirit" or "baptized in the Spirit" - demonstrated by "speaking in tongues". They make this a mandatory exhibition and actually question a person's sincerity if he doesn't "get" this gift. To me, that is wrong and cannot be proved by Scripture. Paul even said in Corinthians that not everyone gets the same gifts, so that means the one who didn't speak in tongues was no less a real Christian than one who did.
I've had people tell me that their gift of tongues was a heavenly language and that the Holy Spirit was praying through them "in words that cannot be uttered". They insisted that ALL Christians should pray in the Spirit - but to them that means we all should speak in tongues. I believe the Scripture you posted disproves that contention since Paul says that these "tongues" would cease. I imagine that in heaven we will all be able to understand each other no matter what our native language was while here on earth and there will be no deaf or mutes there, either. Therefore, the heavenly language is NOT the same thing as the tongues/unknown language God gifted to those first century believers. That gift was a special one designed to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ to all nations - both those represented in Jerusalem that first Pentecost after the resurrection as well as the new believers spread throughout the world when the church began.
Hi boatbums- I just read all your comments on this thread. Those were wise words.
Thank you. I cherish the times we can agree. :o)
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