Re: Bible study, chronology question

[dr.proctor]

Which occurred first (in chronology)........and the reason you believe that?

[Acts 10:14-28] ....or......[Galatians 2:12]?

[Diego1618]

When Peter was first instructed (by the Holy Spirit) to visit Cornelius [Acts 10:17-23] his initial reaction was confusion because he had grown up believing that Gentiles and Israelites should be kept separate. [Matthew 10:5-6] tells us that Yeshua, during his ministry.....even wanted the disciples to stay away from Gentiles as well. He had a different man in mind for the eventual ministry to the Gentiles. This common belief (separatism) by first century Jews was not Torah.....but the teachings of the Talmud from Rabbinical Councils.

After going to Cornelius he explained that, "Our law says it is forbidden for a Jew to associate or visit a Gentile but Yahweh has told me not to call any man impure or unclean" [Acts 10:28]. Folks..........this is at least a decade after the resurrection (40 A.D.????) And....again....you do not find this instruction in Torah (the Old Testament). It is Talmudic.....straight out of Babylon and the Rabbinical Councils.

The headquarters church at that time was Jerusalem and Paul had not yet begun his own ministry.....probably still in Arabia sorting things out [Galatians 1:15-17]. We find that Jewish companions were absolutely dumbfounded that Peter had actually called down the Holy Spirit [Acts 11:44-47] upon mere Gentiles and when they returned to Jerusalem the members of the Jerusalem Christian community indeed......even criticized him for doing so [Acts 11:1-3].

This was the mental state of the early church and Gentiles had not yet figured into the Church's plan of salvation [Acts 11:19]....contrary to the misinterpreted words of [Matthew 28:19].

Paul had been selected by Yeshua and appointed as the Apostle to the Gentiles.....(as well as the Israelites) [Acts 9:15].....but at the time of Cornelius's conversion he had not yet started his ministry. It would begin shortly.

Peter had visited Paul in Antioch some time after the event with Cornelius because he was, indeed now associating with Gentiles [Galatians 2:11-12] who were part of Paul's new ministry. Peter would never had eaten with Gentiles prior to receiving the vision of [Acts 10:9-15] but was still under the authority of James and the Jerusalem Church which was controlled by the Pharisee faction [Acts 15:5] and therefore shied away from the Gentiles whenever they (certain men from James) were present. For this apparent cowardice he was thoroughly scolded by Paul [Galatians 2:14-15]. The Law referred to by Paul was the oral law.....the Talmud, not Torah.

These incidents (which were occurring with frequency) caused Paul and Barnabas to decide to finally have it out with James [Acts 15:2] and the Jerusalem Church. The Council was held in 49 A.D. and followed the events of [Galatians 2].

Paul, after being appointed an Apostle to the Gentiles (attested to by Ananias [Acts 9:15]) was constantly doing battle with James over this issue.....adult male circumcision of Gentile converts. He was exasperated to the point of even wishing they (the circumcision patrols sent out by James [Galatians 2:11-12]) would castrate themselves with their own circumcision knives:

God's Word Translation: [Galatians 5:12] I wish those troublemakers would castrate themselves.

NASB [Galatians 5:12] I wish that those who are troubling you would even mutilate themselves.

Paul had his day in court in Jerusalem.....after the events in Antioch.

[dr.proctor]

I don’t know what to make of this non-sequitur of a reply. You didn’t address the question; you still haven’t addressed the question; what point, if any, are you trying to make regarding the OP?
No response is fine, and we’ll just pretend we didn’t waste our time here. Cyberspace is limitless- hallelujah.

[Diego1618]

The passage about Cornelius in Acts is given to show how the Jewish Christians began to realize that the Gospel was intended for Gentiles as well as Jews.

Doesn't this fly in the face of "Mainstream Christianity's" declaration about [Matthew 28:19]?

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost

This event (in Galilee) shortly after the resurrection..... occurred sometime before the event at Caesarea with Cornelius. If the disciples were informed about preaching to the Gentiles at Galilee....then why are they so surprised when Peter (at the insistence of the Holy Spirit [Acts 10:19-20]) does exactly that [Acts 10:45]?

In fact, Peter was chastised by the Church in Jerusalem upon his return:

[Acts 11:1-3] 1And the apostles and brethren that were in Judaea heard that the Gentiles had also received the word of God. 2And when Peter was come up to Jerusalem, they that were of the circumcision contended with him, 3Saying, Thou wentest in to men uncircumcised, and didst eat with them.

Can't you just hear the tones of their voices as they sneer at him for daring to eat with Gentiles?

Later on....they all seem to come to an agreement that maybe Yahweh, indeed wants salvation taken to the Gentiles:

Acts 11:18] When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

But..........because of their Talmudic teachings (from early childhood) the early Christians (all Jews) reverted back to their separatism:

[Acts 11:19]Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen traveled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only.

I guess the real question is.........Did Yeshua really direct the disciples to go out and preach the gospel to the world? It appears not.....on the surface, because of the subsequent actions of the very early church.

[Rocky]

I think the early disciples were hardheaded, much as people today. They had to be told more than once. Peter had to be given a special revelation (the vision of the descending blanket with forbidden animals). And even then, he was pressured into eating with the Jewish Christians separately from the Gentile Christians until Paul confronted him.

These were real human beings. They weren’t perfect, and they weren’t always consistent.

[Diego1618]

I think the early disciples were hardheaded, much as people today. They had to be told more than once.

Well....thanks Rocky but I don't think that's the case. I don't think they were told to go out and evangelize the world in [Matthew 28:19]. I don't believe they were given the same "Great Commission" that most of "Main Stream" Christianity believes was given. I think the commission was much different.

Stop and think. If they had been told in Galilee to evangelize the Gentiles then why in the world was Paul selected to do the same thing.....at a much later date?

[Acts 9:15]But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel

Don't you think the original Apostles would be getting in Paul's way......if they were doing the same thing? And....we're not even touching on the astonishment factor that the early church displayed when told about Peter going to Cornelius [Acts 10:45][Acts 11:1-3][Acts 11:18].

No....I don't think they were hardheaded at all. I just think they were ignorant about Gentiles being available to receive salvation.....just like them. They hadn't been told yet!

[Yosemitest]

Please take a look at CHRONOLOGY etc. OF THE "ACTS" PERIOD. from the Appendixes to The Companion Bible of Dr. E.W. Bullinger.
I think you'll find your answers there.

"[Acts 10:14-28] ....or......[Galatians 2:12]"

"Acts 10:14-28" : Look at A.M. 42 and A.D. 38.

"Galatians 2:12" : Look at A.M. 55 and A.D. 51.

You can check out who Ethelbert William Bullinger was here.
And for serious Bible Study, I highly recommend Companion Bible-KJV-Large Print.
I assure you, it's well worth the cost.
If you're lucky, you can sometimes find it for as little as $45.00, but it's hard to find.
Also, don't consider anything less than the large print edition, due to the size of the print in the Appendixes, which you'll use a lot.

[Rocky]

OK, what commission were they given? If they weren’t give the Great Commission, then was that a fabrication by Matthew?

[Diego1618]

OK, what commission were they given? If they weren’t given the Great Commission, then was that a fabrication by Matthew?

[Matthew 10:5]These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not

Can you tell me where this command was ever rescinded? It definitely was not rescinded by [Matthew 28:19] because....as we have noticed.....everyone in the early church, as much as 5/10 years later.... were completely dumbfounded by the visit to Cornelius by Peter....and its aftermath [Acts 10:45][Acts 11:1-3] and [Acts 11:18].

In His original commission He tells the disciples NOT to go among the Gentiles (some did anyway) and go to the "Lost Sheep of the House of Israel". He later selects Paul to go to the Gentiles [Acts 9:15].

[Matthew 10:6] But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

The Gentiles were not the Lost Sheep. He even reiterates later just who His personal commission is to:

[Matthew 15:24] But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

So....the question still is (to main stream Christianity) when did this commission change....to include Gentiles? It wasn't mentioned in Galilee.......that's for sure.

Let's look at the Greek: [Matthew 28:19] Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost

The word "nations" is "ETHOS" in the Greek and it means a race (as of the same habit), i.e. a tribe; specially, a foreign (non-Jewish) one (usually, by implication, pagan)

The Lost Sheep of the House of Israel were not Jews, they were thought to be living among the Gentiles [John 7:35] and they were tribal in nature. Ten of the original twelve tribes were considered lost.....both to Yahweh and to history. But.....during the first century everyone knew who they were....and where they were.

Here is what Josephus (first century historian) has to say about them:

Josephus: [Antiquities XI; V; II] snip: "but then the entire body of the people of Israel remained in that country; wherefore there are but two tribes in Asia and Europe subject to the Romans, while the ten tribes are beyond Euphrates till now, and are an immense multitude, and not to be estimated by numbers."

Needless to say....the two tribes subject to the Romans were Judah and Benjamin....the Jews [I Kings 12:20-24]. The rest of the Israelites were beyond the Euphrates and the disciples had been commissioned to go to them.

It was to these ten tribes that the disciples had been commissioned to evangelize and told to stay away from the Gentiles. This is exactly where we find Peter after he left James and the Jerusalem Church [I Peter 1:1-2][I Peter 5:13].....beyond the Euphrates.

[Diego1618]

Sorry...........meant to ping you to my last post.....

[Diego1618]

Some additional data regarding Peter.......

[I Peter 1:1-2]1Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

These people who Peter had been commissioned to evangelize were not Gentiles. They had a "foreknowledge" of Yahweh. The Greek words for "strangers scattered" are defined thus.........

Strangers: PARAPIDEMOS....an alien alongside...i.e, a resident foreigner.

Scattered: DIASPORA....Israelite residents in Gentile countries.

Peter was in Babylon writing to folks who were descended from the ten tribes of Israel and were now living on the southern shores of the Black Sea. He was precisely where Yeshua had told him to go.......seek out and evangelize the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel [Matthew 10:5-6]. By writing from Babylon he was also among the largest congregation of Israelite descendents anywhere in the known world at that time. Reference my earlier post on the historical location of these folks from the pages of Josephus.

I've pinged a couple of earlier posters who seem to have a good grasp of biblical history. Since you've posted some other areas have been covered........and they may interest you.

[count-your-change]

Thus the Scriptures offer no evidence Peter was ever in Rome.

[editor-surveyor]

>> “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost” <<

.
Even the early Greek texts don’t have quite that wording, calling only for baptising in the name of Yeshua. Those in the original Hebrew are in agreement.

[Diego1618]

Thus the Scriptures offer no evidence Peter was ever in Rome.

Yes....and indeed, stipulate otherwise. He is found in Galilee, Jerusalem, Caesarea, Antioch....and finally in Babylon.

It's quite remarkable that a whole theology has developed around where he.....was not!

[Diego1618]

Even the early Greek texts don’t have quite that wording, calling only for baptising in the name of Yeshua. Those in the original Hebrew are in agreement.

Now....I'm curious. Do you have a copy of any original Hebrew texts....i.e. "Shem Tov" (or a link)?

[editor-surveyor]

I don’t need a copy, I rely on scholars like Nehemia Gordon whose creds are unassailable.

He has demolished the errors promoted by the sloppy Greek translations of Matthew in his “Greek Jesus vs. Hebrew Yeshua” based not just on Shem Tov, but also several others.

[editor-surveyor]

http://store.aroodawakening.tv/shop-3/hebrew-yeshua-vs-greek-jesus.html

[editor-surveyor]

>> “It’s quite remarkable that a whole theology has developed around where he.....was not!” <<

.
The theologies of all of the major recognized “churches” are based not only on what was not, but also a total rejection of “what is.”

How can one claim to love and believe in Yeshua, when they reject all that he commanded and did?

[count-your-change]

Indeed so as most worship an incomprehensible three headed god, conflate sheol-hades-gehenna into a confused ‘hell’, and have forgotten the chief identifying mark of Jesus’ disciples.

[editor-surveyor]

Almost all conflate Hell, and the “Lake that burns with brimstone.”

[count-your-change]

And in so doing negate the resurrection of the dead fron the memorial tombs. Hell is simply the English word for sheol/hades not the Dante and Milton picture of the abode of Satan who was never described in Scripture as being in hell at all.