IDOLATRY? 'Get that thing down, immediately,' Pope Francis says of Argentinean statue

LOS ANGELES, CA (Catholic Online) - Pope Francis, at the age of 76, has found himself to be a most unwilling media celebrity. A household name and on countless newspapers and magazines, he has been adamant that the message of the church, and not him, is his mission on Earth.

Believers have visited the statue to pay homage to it ever since being installed in the cathedral's garden two weeks ago. Tourists have had their pictures taken alongside the figure. The fiberglass statue is five feet, six inches tall and has been a fixture of the cathedral since the end of June.

The former Archbishop of the Argentine capital, Pope Francis was reportedly horrified at the news.

Strong words with the priest responsible were exchanged between Francis and the priest responsible. "Get that thing down, immediately," the Argentinean newspaper Clarin reported. Since his election in March, Francis has gone to lengths to be seen as humble, showing little patience for the pomp and fuss that come with his position as head of the world's 1.2 billion Catholics.

Eschewing the robes and trimmings traditionally allocated to the Pope, Francis continues to wear a simple white cassock and iron cross.

Refusing to move into the luxurious Papal apartments, claiming they are too grand, Francis prefers to live in a humble guesthouse for visiting clerics, with whom he eats meals and offers mass every morning.

His celebrity, however, is to be expected. Vanity Fair magazine has declared Francis as Man of the Year in the magazine's Italian edition. "His first 100 days have already placed him in the category of world leaders who make history," the magazine says. "But the revolution continues."

Well, I’m neither a madam or nor anti-Catholic. What I am is pro-truth. I’m pro the Jesus Christ who came “according to the Scriptures.” I have great concern for the souls of Catholic people, a number of whom are in my own family. However, I readily admit I am against the papacy, the priesthood, the mass, the eucharist, and numerous other attributes and doctrines of the Roman Catholic system. I’m not against them just to be contrary or because I’m a protestant. I’m against them because I have a high view of Scripture and find no biblical support for them.

Few Catholics I know are all that serious about their faith. They can’t really discuss these things because they have never once considered Catholic doctrines in light of Scripture. The same goes for the Catholics I run into here. A few attempt a defense by way of reference to what “the Church” teaches. Some resort to human logic and philosophy. Only occasionally do I encounter a Catholic who even attempts an argument from the Bible. Many seem to just get angry.

For instance, rather than give Scriptural support for why statues of Mary and crucifixes are biblical, you scoffed and resorted to ad hominem, which is telling.

Do these things statues just seem good and right to you? Does your heart tell you God couldn’t possibly care about statues of Christ and Mary? How do you know they are okay? Do you accept them merely because your church propagates them? Have you been a Berean (Acts 17:10-11) and searched the Scriptures to find out what they have to say?

“The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?” (Jeremiah 17:9)

“There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.” (Proverbs 14:12)

Boogieman:

Well, I think in many instances people remember the deceased when they pass, Of course, even Shakespeare longed for the Catholic Funeral Liturgy thath the Prots in England thru out as he would state something of the order “Oh Ritual oh Ritual where are thou Ritual”.

As for dieing, I guess when Ronald Reagan died, there should not have been dignataries at the Reagan Library and several days of celebrating his life, nor should we have named a DC airport after him, Princess Di.

When a Pope dies, there is the Funeral Liturgy which all Baptized Catholics, who die in communion with God and the Church, albeit sometimes not a perfect communion, are entitled to have. Some Popes lives are celebrated more than others. Not sure how that is hypocritical. Of course, “maybe” you are one of those guys that when your Parents pass, you are going to say, just stick em in the ground and be done with em. But again, only you know that as I am only speculating.

Dear Mr. Boogieman-

Hey, were you a member of KC and the Sunshine Band?

Well, I don’t want you to be disappointed in not having Catholics trying to explain the inexpliquably unexplainable, so here I am. However, before I cut to the chase, you may want to prepare yourself beforehand for the unthinkable prospect of becoming RC.

Why do I say this? Because many evangelicals — informed evangelical scholars, mind you — have been seeing things they missed before that explain the Catholic point of view. And no, I’m not talking about photography here, I’m referring to Biblical in that thar Bible-type stories.

The sitting president of the Evangelical Theological Union, Dr. Francis Beckwith, is one of them. Story here:
http://acatholiclife.blogspot.com/2007/05/evangelical-theological-society.html

But back to those graven images, those sinister, plain as the nose on your face CONDEMNED graven images, how IN THE WORLD can anyone justify their existence?????

The 2nd Commandment clearly states (I love how scripture scholars of all stripes use the word ‘clearly’ when debating their diametrically-opposed positions) in Exodus 20 that “Thou shalt make NO GRAVEN IMAGE”. Period. End of discussion, right?

Umm, not so fast.

Gotta keep reading that Exodus. What happens in Exodus, mostly? Jews, err, Israelites, complaining. And complaining. Then, they complain some more.

So, they get smitten, smitted, smote. I mean, even BEFORE the 10 C’s came down the mountain with Moses (twice) they were gravening. Got themselves a golden calf! Whoo hoo! Got smote.

OK, now they got themselves the 10 C’s. But they’re complaining. No food! Then ... No water! Later ... No meat! Got milk?

God sent 10 plagues on the E’s, pillar of fire, parts the Red Sea, gives ‘em manna, quails, you name it. These people just can’t be pleased! You ever work in a restaurant and have a chosen person as a customer? Yeesh. “Your salt is too salty... Is this ham kosher?” It still goes on TODAY!! By the time you bring their bill, YOU’RE ready to do some smiting. But alas, I digress.

Soooo, this complaining has lethal consequences. In one segment, God sends seraph serpents among the I’s that bite and kill them, but it seems it doesn’t kill them right away. We’re right on script here though - complaint, smite, repent. It’s like shampooing. Lather, rinse, repeat.

By the way, does ANYONE repeat when shampooing?

Now, FINALLY, to the point.

What does God instruct Moses to do? That’s right.

GOD ORDERS — ORDERS, COMMANDS — MOSES TO MAKE (gasp!)

A GRAVEN IMAGE!!!!

Say it isn’t so!!

Moses casts an image of the serpent, and puts it on a staff, and anyone who looks upon THE GRAVEN IMAGE is healed.

So, did God forget His own 2nd C? Let’s just say that’s a non-starter. The point about GRAVEN IMAGES is that you are not to worship them as a god.

Which is CLEARLY (hee, hee, I love dat woid) illustrated much later ... IN THE BIBLE!!!

But where, oh my enlightened Catholic brethren, you may ask, might that be?

Well, later on our friends the Jews were in their normal state, which is to say, all screwed up, worshipping idols, not keeping the Sabbath, killing their babies in sacrifice to gods -similar to today. But this is the time of the Kings. And lo and behold, a reformer king, Josiah by name, comes on the scene.

So he’s smashing idols, re-dedicating the temple, etc. etc.
But do you remember reading what one of the idols was? Something kept initially as a memoir of the 40 year sojourn in the desert?

That’s right. The bronze seraph serpent! Only now it’s being worshipped as a god!! So Josiah has this important historical artifact, not to mention a proof of God’s intervention on behalf of the Israelites, this object touched by Moses and Aaron, DESTROYED.

So now, my pre-Catholic friend, when you watch a Catholic Mass and you see Christ crucified on a staff leading the procession to begin that Mass, remember that the just judge will be instead your merciful Savior. You have but to look upon Him to be healed.

And you can only do that in a Catholic Church.

Thank for proving my point. You lashed out with all manner of angry, irrational, and fallacious argumentation. Rather than engage the issue from Scripture, you resorted to ad hominem, digression, argument by emotive language, argument by gibberish, argument by ambiguous assertion, etc.

Your argument about the Lord’s Supper is nonsensical, not to mention unsupported by any facts. Moreover, you SCREAMED at me instead of supporting your position, whatever it might be, with Scripture.

Just because your friend either can’t defend her beliefs or has chosen not to, you must not assume no one else can defend her position. Most people never think deeply about anything, let alone the Word of God.

Man must have religion of some sort; should he cease to worship the God who made him, he will worship the god whom he himself made-an idol graven or molten-or it may be a stump, a stone, a creeping thing, the sun, the moon, the stars, or even the devil!

Men, by degrees, lost the knowledge of God, a result which was punishment, since, “when they knew God they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful;” and “because they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, He gave them up to a reprobate mind.”

This state of things gives a fearful significance to the second commandment, “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them, for I, the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.”

When you find Scriptural support for idolatry please let me know. As for me and my house, we will remember that God is a jealous God and avoid images altogether.

As I said, I will pray for you. In fact, I already have.

>>Moses casts an image of the serpent, and puts it on a staff, and anyone who looks upon THE GRAVEN IMAGE is healed.<<

I don’t suppose you have read what God said to do with that “image” after they began to “venerate” it did you?

2 Kings 18:4 He eliminated the high places, smashed the sacred pillars to bits, and cut down the Asherah pole. He also demolished the bronze serpent that Moses had made, for up to that time the Israelites had been offering incense to it; it was called Nehushtan.

Burning incense in front of a statue (idol) sound familiar to you?

>>The point about GRAVEN IMAGES is that you are not to worship them as a god.<<

Oh you think so? Let’s see what God actually says about that.

Deuteronomy 12:30 Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise.

31 Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods.

32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

Would you please show the scripture where God commands to use statues and incense in the worship of Him?

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