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Signs of a Cult
http://www.reachingcatholics.org/signs.html ^ | Unknown | Greg Durel

Posted on 09/27/2013 1:26:05 AM PDT by jodyel

There are about seven principle signs that identify a cult. Now when one hears the word "cult," the first connotation is that of some strange obscure religious group. But for our discussion the word cult is simply a word that describes organized heresy. In other words, any religious group that systematically teaches false doctrine. Knowing some of these signs is key to preventing people from following these cults.

The sign we will focus on here is the teaching of exclusivity. Cults will declare that they are the only way to heaven. Apart from them there is no salvation. They alone are the repositories of truth and all must join them to be saved. Here one might say, "yea, like the Jehovah’s Witnesses or the Mormons." But to infer, let alone say, that Catholicism is in this class, is to be condemned as a hate monger or Catholic basher.

To demonstrate that Roman Catholicism bears the mark of a cult is quite easy indeed. If we were left to our opinions and personal interpretations, it might be difficult, but Rome has supplied a mass (no pun intended) of evidence to use. For example:

1) "WE BELIEVE THE CHURCH IS NECESSARY FOR SALVATION BECAUSE CHRIST, WHO IS THE SOLE MEDIATOR AND EXCLUSIVE WAY OF SALVATION, RENDERS HIMSELF PRESENT FOR US IN HIS BODY WHICH IS THE CHURCH. WE MUST ALWAYS REMEMBER THE UNITY OF THE MYSTICAL BODY, WITHOUT WHICH THERE CAN BE NO SALVATION, IS OPEN TO NO ONE OUTSIDE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH." Pope Paul VI

2) "THE HOLY UNIVERSAL CHURCH PROCLAIMS THAT GOD CANNOT TRULY BE WORSHIPPED SAVE WITHIN HERSELF, AND ASSERTS THAT ALL THEY WHO ARE WITHOUT HER PALE SHALL NEVER BE SAVED." Pope Gregory the Great (Now how is that for ecumenism!)

3) "THE CHURCH IS LIKE THE ARK OF NOAH, OUTSIDE OF WHICH NOBODY CAN BE SAVED." Thomas Aquinas.

4) "THAT THERE IS ONE HOLY CATHOLIC AND APOSTOLIC CHURCH WE ARE COMPELLED TO BELIEVE AND TO HOLD, PROMPTED BY DIVINE FAITH, AND WE DO BELIEVE THIS FIRMLY AND CONFESS IT SIMPLY, OUTSIDE OF WHICH THERE CAN BE NO SALVATION, OR REMISSION OF SINS…." Pope Boniface VIII

5) "IT IS A SIN TO BELIEVE THAT THERE IS SALVATION OUTSIDE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH." Pope Pius IX

6) "FOR IT IS THROUGH CHRIST’S CATHOLIC CHURCH ALONE, WHICH IS THE UNIVERSAL HELP TOWARDS SALVATION, THAT THE FULNESS OF THE MEANS OF SALVATION CAN BE OBTAINED." Vatican II

Now we have just cited six infallible sources of the Catholic Church to prove without reservations that they believe that they are the only way to heaven. Understand that they are saying that only Roman Catholics have a chance at going to heaven. This is classic cult mentality. The organization becomes the focus and the savior. Allow us to clearly illustrate this fact. In a recent debate with a Jesuit theologian, we were able to ask a very simple yet extremely important question. The question was "what do we have to do to go to heaven?" The answer that followed was very revealing. It clearly proved that Roman Catholicism teaches that every Baptist is going to hell, in addition to every Presbyterian, Methodist, etc. The Jesuit theologian said to go to heaven we must "do" several things. Firstly, believe the entire Bible. (Sounds like a fundamentalist.) Secondly, we must be baptized in water. Thirdly, we must keep the commandments. Fourthly, we must eat His flesh and drink His blood literally (in the sacrament of the mass). He mentioned a couple of others, but these four should suffice.

The Scripture clearly reveals to one and all that salvation comes from believing in the Lord Jesus Christ alone. (Cf. Acts 16:30-31; Eph. 2:8-9; Titus 3:5) The entire book of Galatians was written to demonstrate the futility of believing that the Law justifies or saves anyone. But the "eating" and "drinking" the literal flesh and blood of the Lord Jesus Christ says it all. For according to Roman Catholic theology, this can only be done after a "priest"—and only a priest—says the words of consecration over the bread and wine. Hence, no Catholic Church, no priest. No priest, no Mass or transubstantiation. No transubstantiation, no eating His flesh or drinking His blood. No eating and drinking of Jesus literally, NO SALVATION!

We commend to your reading Hebrews 7, 8, 9 and 10. The mysticism is clearly not biblical and certainly not necessary for anyone to be saved. Their insistence on such heresies places them at the top of the list of religious cults. That statement may seem a bit harsh, but it is nonetheless true. Catholicism does not differ from any of the cults where our first sign is concerned. A closer look at the other signs of a cult further confirm the fact that Catholicism, while large in number, humanitarian in practice, is still unbiblical and perhaps the mother of all "Christian" cults.


TOPICS: Apologetics; General Discusssion
KEYWORDS: catholicbashing; falsedefinition
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1 posted on 09/27/2013 1:26:05 AM PDT by jodyel
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To: jodyel

“not of works, lest any man should boast” or something like that.


2 posted on 09/27/2013 2:06:32 AM PDT by Little Pig (Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici.)
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To: jodyel

Give the names of documents. If you don’t give the name of the document in which these statements were supposedly made, these out-of-context snippets are meaningless.

And I suggest that the quotation from “Paul VI” is non-existent.

At any rate, the Catholic Church does not teach, and has never taught, that every person who is a not registered in a Catholic parish as a full-fledged, formal member of the Catholic Church is going to hell.


3 posted on 09/27/2013 2:14:23 AM PDT by Arthur McGowan (If you're FOR sticking scissors in a female's neck and sucking out her brains, you are PRO-WOMAN!)
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To: jodyel

The quotation from Vatican II does not support your argument at all. To say that the “fullness” of helps to salvation are found in the Catholic Church in no way implies that no non-Catholic can be saved.


4 posted on 09/27/2013 2:16:49 AM PDT by Arthur McGowan (If you're FOR sticking scissors in a female's neck and sucking out her brains, you are PRO-WOMAN!)
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To: jodyel
2 Corinthians 6: 14 Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? 15 What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? Or what does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? 16 What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. ...

Galatians 1: ...3 Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, 4 who gave himself for our sins to rescue us from the present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father, 5 to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!

5 posted on 09/27/2013 2:20:11 AM PDT by WVKayaker ("The only place that the left hasn't placed the blame is on their agenda..." -Sarah Palin)
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To: jodyel
Exodus 20: 2- You shall not make for yourself any carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments. -(NOTE: This commandment is conveniently left out of the Roman Catholic list of commandments...)

2 Corinthians 6:16 What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols?


6 posted on 09/27/2013 2:29:29 AM PDT by WVKayaker ("The only place that the left hasn't placed the blame is on their agenda..." -Sarah Palin)
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To: jodyel

Of course, to label the Catholic Church as a “cult,” one must simply ignore the lives of the saints—people who have exhibited heroic virtue—often to a degree that is in itself manifestly miraculous. Singing hymns while being roasted alive—stuff like that. Then there are the prodigious works of charity in the lives of the saints—the invention of the hospital by Catholics, and the foundation of tens of thousands of hospitals and the self-giving of millions of lives (mostly women religious in service to the sick and the poor). And the out-and-out miracles—prodigious healings of illness, lost limbs, lost eyes, etc.

Cf. the life Saint Pius—Padre Pio.


7 posted on 09/27/2013 2:30:27 AM PDT by Arthur McGowan (If you're FOR sticking scissors in a female's neck and sucking out her brains, you are PRO-WOMAN!)
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To: Arthur McGowan
The Paul VI "quote" is taken out of the Credo of the People of God...

22. Recognizing also the existence, outside the organism of the Church of Christ, of numerous elements of truth and sanctification which belong to her as her own and tend to Catholic unity, and believing in the action of the Holy Spirit who stirs up in the heart of the disciples of Christ love of this unity, we entertain the hope that the Christians who are not yet in the full communion of the one only Church will one day be reunited in one flock with one only shepherd.

23. We believe that the Church is necessary for salvation, because Christ, who is the sole mediator and way of salvation, renders Himself present for us in His body which is the Church. But the divine design of salvation embraces all men; and those who without fault on their part do not know the Gospel of Christ and His Church, but seek God sincerely, and under the influence of grace endeavor to do His will as recognized through the promptings of their conscience, they, in a number known only to God, can obtain salvation.

Of course in context it shows the author of the article to be a bit of a liar... and that whole "sole mediator and way of salvation" bit should have driven the anti-Catholic author into having a brain hemorrhage.

8 posted on 09/27/2013 3:16:44 AM PDT by Legatus (Keep calm and carry on)
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To: jodyel

Never argue with a fool. Didn’t God say that?


9 posted on 09/27/2013 3:22:56 AM PDT by If You Want It Fixed - Fix It
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To: jodyel; Legatus

Now that’s interesting! The “quote” from Paul VI really was fake. And the real quote says exactly the opposite of the fake “quote.”

Now why would anyone do that?


10 posted on 09/27/2013 3:35:22 AM PDT by Arthur McGowan (If you're FOR sticking scissors in a female's neck and sucking out her brains, you are PRO-WOMAN!)
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To: jodyel; Legatus

Here’s the entire “Credo of the People of God,” from the Vatican website. I am reasonably sure that they have the correct text of what Paul VI said.

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/motu_proprio/documents/hf_p-vi_motu-proprio_19680630_credo_en.html


11 posted on 09/27/2013 3:40:15 AM PDT by Arthur McGowan (If you're FOR sticking scissors in a female's neck and sucking out her brains, you are PRO-WOMAN!)
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To: Arthur McGowan
Of course, to label the Catholic Church as a “cult,” one must simply ignore the lives of the saints

Of course, NOT to label the Catholic Church as a “cult,” one must simply ignore the Scriptures! Satan can perform miracles. Satan can certainly deceive! We see it in the massive display of wealth in Rome, where those riches are taken as a sign of Godliness or Holiness. They will burn and those that follow in those footsteps must answer to Him!

You can pray to dead people, but, like Joshua, "...as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord." You can pray to Mary until the sun goes down, but" she's dead, Jim!: and so are they!!!

Joshua 24: Throw away the gods your ancestors worshiped beyond the Euphrates River and in Egypt, and serve the Lord. 15 But if serving the Lord seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord.”

16 Then the people answered, “Far be it from us to forsake the Lord to serve other gods! 17 It was the Lord our God himself who brought us and our parents up out of Egypt, from that land of slavery, and performed those great signs before our eyes. He protected us on our entire journey and among all the nations through which we traveled. 18 And the Lord drove out before us all the nations, including the Amorites, who lived in the land. We too will serve the Lord, because he is our God.”

19 Joshua said to the people, “You are not able to serve the Lord. He is a holy God; he is a jealous God. He will not forgive your rebellion and your sins. 20 If you forsake the Lord and serve foreign gods, he will turn and bring disaster on you and make an end of you, after he has been good to you.”


12 posted on 09/27/2013 3:46:44 AM PDT by WVKayaker ("The only place that the left hasn't placed the blame is on their agenda..." -Sarah Palin)
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To: Legatus

“can obtain salvation.”

How do they then obtain salvation?


13 posted on 09/27/2013 3:48:40 AM PDT by jodyel
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To: jodyel
Another day, another pitch by the poor, sick puppies of the anti-Catholic wing.

Shouldn't you be examining your own souls? Attacking other Christians is wasteful and ignorant when the whole world is under desperate siege by Islamist and atheists.

You really should spend more time learning what Christianity really is..

14 posted on 09/27/2013 3:52:38 AM PDT by Chainmail (A simple rule of life: if you can be blamed, you're responsible.)
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To: jodyel

Through “Christ, who is the sole mediator and way of salvation,” but as to how this is accomplished outside of the Church:

We.

Don’t.

Know.

It’s up to God.

But let’s address the proof texting in the article you posted. Aren’t you even a little disturbed that the citation I chose to examine is a little um... misleading?


15 posted on 09/27/2013 3:56:28 AM PDT by Legatus (Keep calm and carry on)
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To: WVKayaker

Remember the “sin against the Holy Spirit”?

You remember what it was?

It was attributing a healing to Satan that had been done by the Lord.


16 posted on 09/27/2013 4:04:12 AM PDT by Arthur McGowan (If you're FOR sticking scissors in a female's neck and sucking out her brains, you are PRO-WOMAN!)
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To: jodyel

By sincerely following the dictates of their conscience.


17 posted on 09/27/2013 4:05:35 AM PDT by Arthur McGowan (If you're FOR sticking scissors in a female's neck and sucking out her brains, you are PRO-WOMAN!)
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Thomas Jefferson - “I Have Sworn Upon the Altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.”

“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”

Just another layer of bureaucracy.

Human Beings do not need keepers - only the animals.


18 posted on 09/27/2013 4:08:25 AM PDT by S.O.S121.500 (Case back hoe for sale or trade for diesel wood chipper....Enforce the Bill of Rights. It's the Law!)
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To: WVKayaker

You condemn praying to “dead people.”

But ARE those who have died, physically, really “dead.”

Or was Jesus wrong when He said that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were all alive, because “I am not the God of the dead, but of the living”?

It’s interesting that Jesus told the parable of the Rich Man who dies and then carries on a conversation with Abraham. If Jesus wanted to PROMOTE the idea that the dead are not really dead, that would be an excellent way to do it!


19 posted on 09/27/2013 4:12:01 AM PDT by Arthur McGowan (If you're FOR sticking scissors in a female's neck and sucking out her brains, you are PRO-WOMAN!)
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To: All
I’ve been long tempted to post this on many of these “my religion or sect is better than yours”, “your religion is a cult” religion threads but as I don’t have a horse running in any of these races, I haven’t up till now.

Teacher Atheist says, every time a bell rings Christians fight with each other, an angel get’s his wings atheist laughs his butt off.

Think about it for a moment then go back to attacking and arguing with each other. Carry on!

20 posted on 09/27/2013 4:24:33 AM PDT by MD Expat in PA
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To: jodyel

These Catholic postings citing the Bible are useless; the Catholics do not BELIEVE the Bible — at least, not all of it. This was shared with me by staunch R.C. friends, one of whom studied for the priesthood. If there is EVER a conflict between what the Bible states and what popes decree, the popes always win.

Per these people, Catholics believe the parts of the Bible they want to believe; the rest is “just stories”.

Of course, any “religion” that raises a man’s word above God’s Word is a cult. Observing extra-biblical fantasies is another criterion.

Gotta love America where anyone can believe anything he chooses. If he chooses to reject God and worship anyone else, living or dead, there are consequences in the hereafter. It’s all about choices.


21 posted on 09/27/2013 4:25:08 AM PDT by MayflowerMadam ("A hyphenated American is not an American at all." Teddy Roosevelt)
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To: jodyel

http://berkleycenter.georgetown.edu/resources/quotes/paul-vi-on-how-the-plan-of-salvation-includes-non-christians?q=Catholic%20%20%20%20social%20justice

Paul VI on How the Plan of Salvation Includes Non-Christians

Pope Paul VI
November 21, 1964

In the first place we must recall the people to whom the testament and the promises were given and from whom Christ was born according to the flesh [...] But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Mohamedans, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind. Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God [...] Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19641121_lumen-gentium_en.html


“The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator.”

This is why men not inspired and indwelt with the Holy Spirit should not be rewriting Scripture. There is no need to rewrite what has already been clearly stated by God, thru men indwelt with the Holy Spirit, in Scripture.

I’m sure this has been called out many times already here but acknowledging the Creator is what even Satan and the demons do and they sure don’t have salvation.

Why rewrite something that is already crystal clear unless one has motives that are less than godly?


22 posted on 09/27/2013 4:27:34 AM PDT by jodyel
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To: MayflowerMadam

The believers here get that, Madam. Loud and clear. But we must refute them and their popes nevertheless.

Thank you for posting.


23 posted on 09/27/2013 4:34:15 AM PDT by jodyel
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To: Arthur McGowan
You condemn praying to “dead people.”

I also condemn anybody that tries to take an isolated Scripture on which to build a doctrine. Your quote to me of Jesus's words were twice misplaced in context.

Firstly, Jesus was quoting scripture, not speaking extemporaneously. Jesus always used the Scriptures to explain the Gospel. Secondly, the context from which your quote came was from the attempted trickery by some suppose that scholars. I see the same thing happening with most of the rhetoric from the Roman Catholic side. the next part of your post even talk about the parable of the rich man and Abraham (which by the way, is found in Luke 16). Do you understand what parable means? Parables are not literal occurrences. Maybe you are just confused, so I will furnish the definition:

par·a·ble [par-uh-buhl]
noun

1. a short allegorical story designed to illustrate or teach some truth, religious principle, or moral lesson.

2. a statement or comment that conveys a meaning indirectly by the use of comparison, analogy, or the like.

The Roman Catholic indoctrination process is strong. It is obvious to anyone that reads these threads that the Roman Catholics here in our totally committed to the defense of the organization based in Rome. They even tried to pick some scriptures to build their case without rhyme nor reason. It's just what they've always been taught! But thank God, I have the Holy Spirit as my guide and comforter. I don't need to depend on Rome's interpretations and misinterpretations and misplaced doctrines of men. I only need to trust in the Lord. There is no dead person I can pray to, know what I have any reason when I have the assurance that I can approach God's throne directly. You see, I am part of the family. I have been grafted into joint heirship with Christ. There is no man on earth that can pardon my sins, because when I gave my life to him he promised to remember them no more. Believe it or not!

But Jesus spoke to them just as I will speak to the Roman Catholic “Sadducees”. In verse 29, Jesus says unto them, “you do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.”

***

Matthew 22:23 The same day came to him the Sadducees, which say that there is no resurrection, and asked him,

24 Saying, Master, Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.

25 Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first, when he had married a wife, deceased, and, having no issue, left his wife unto his brother:

26 Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the seventh.

27 And last of all the woman died also.

28 Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,

32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.28 Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,

32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. ...

24 posted on 09/27/2013 4:53:28 AM PDT by WVKayaker ("The only place that the left hasn't placed the blame is on their agenda..." -Sarah Palin)
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To: jodyel
The sign we will focus on here is the teaching of exclusivity. Cults will declare that they are the only way to heaven. Apart from them there is no salvation. They alone are the repositories of truth and all must join them to be saved.

You mean like fundamentalist Protestants who say (a) only Christians can be saved, and (b) Catholics aren't Christians, Orthodox aren't Christians, most other professing Christians aren't really Christians, and (c) the only real Christians are people in their little group, and a few like it? Like them?

Pot, kettle, black. Pretty amusing to condemn another group for its falsely alleged "exclusivity". Do you not see the blatant irony?

25 posted on 09/27/2013 5:11:17 AM PDT by Campion ("Social justice" begins in the womb)
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To: MayflowerMadam
These Catholic postings citing the Bible are useless; the Catholics do not BELIEVE the Bible — at least, not all of it

Yeah, and Protestants only believe the parts of the Bible they think they can use to trash Catholics, and most of them only know a few verses out of Romans and Galatians.

Do you want to have a civil discussion or just sit here and slander each other? Which do you think actually glorifies Christ?

26 posted on 09/27/2013 5:16:57 AM PDT by Campion ("Social justice" begins in the womb)
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To: WVKayaker

Let’s take one point at a time.

I am well aware that the parable of Dives and Lazarus is a parable.

Note that I did NOT say that Dives and Lazarus were real people in the Gospel. I said that, if Jesus wanted to PROMOTE the idea that people survive after death, i.e., that “dead” people are actually alive, then telling that parable was an excellent way to do so.

It would be possible to take you seriously if you weren’t so eager to find the least charitable or plausible interpretation of what I said.

Perhaps you will notice that my posts have been free of any ranting against “corrupt Protestants,” or “Protestants deceived by Satan,” etc. On the other hand, all or nearly all the posts contesting the Catholic view have been loaded with assertions that Catholics are deceived by Satan, that they will burn in Hell, etc.

The contrast is surely interesting.


27 posted on 09/27/2013 5:28:55 AM PDT by Arthur McGowan (If you're FOR sticking scissors in a female's neck and sucking out her brains, you are PRO-WOMAN!)
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To: Campion
Yeah, and Protestants only believe the parts of the Bible they think they can use to trash Catholics ...

Yep, the parts between Genesis and Revelation! When does your "civil discussion" begin? I don't slander. Use of the word slander implies falsehood or lies, and I speak truth from the whole word of God, chapter and verse included every time. I also don't trash Catholics individually, but I will speak the truth in love. I agree with the premise stated. The Roman Catholic Church is the world's largest cult.

Numbers mean nothing to God. Each individual gets the same opportunity to choose. sadly, the Roman Catholic organization has designed a system to keep their faithful in the pews. Plus, they get to sell them some candles and statues. I don't think that's what God requires. Scripture tells me otherwise. You don't have to be obedient to ritual and rote. You have to acknowledge that you are a sinner in need of salvation and punishment. God wants you to know the way, and there's no detour through Rome!

John 3: ... 11 Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. 12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? 13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man. 14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”

16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. ...

... Romans 3 19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.

21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement] through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26 he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus

28 posted on 09/27/2013 5:34:15 AM PDT by WVKayaker ("The only place that the left hasn't placed the blame is on their agenda..." -Sarah Palin)
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To: jodyel; WVKayaker; MayflowerMadam

If those who have died are DEAD, DEAD, DEAD, as you say, how are they able to enjoy being in heaven?


29 posted on 09/27/2013 5:40:31 AM PDT by Arthur McGowan (If you're FOR sticking scissors in a female's neck and sucking out her brains, you are PRO-WOMAN!)
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To: jodyel
A "cult" is defined as any manipulative, cash-generating scam that funnels money away from the manipulative, cash-generating scam you happen to believe in. :)
30 posted on 09/27/2013 5:44:17 AM PDT by Mr. Jeeves (CTRL-GALT-DELETE)
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Comment #31 Removed by Moderator

Comment #32 Removed by Moderator

To: jodyel

Okay.

Now that it has been proven (use the link above, to the Vatican website) that the “quote” from Pope Paul VI was fake—that, indeed, it said the OPPOSITE of “all non-Catholics are damned,” are you going to inquire of the author of the webpage you cut-and-pasted why he would publish a fake “quote” from a Pope?

I mean, it seems that a person is either interested in pursuing and spreading the truth, or he is the kind of person who uses fake quotations. I can’t see how anybody can be both!


33 posted on 09/27/2013 6:07:46 AM PDT by Arthur McGowan (If you're FOR sticking scissors in a female's neck and sucking out her brains, you are PRO-WOMAN!)
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To: jodyel
I don't know. Mind, I don't disagree particularly, either, nor agree especially.

However, based on the test of exclusivity, does this make Christianity a cult? Even if Christianity (by which I mean accepting Christ as Savior) is right, which it is?

34 posted on 09/27/2013 6:10:01 AM PDT by chesley (Vast deserts of political ignorance makes liberalism possible - James Lewis)
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To: Arthur McGowan; jodyel; MayflowerMadam
If those who have died are DEAD, DEAD, DEAD, as you say, how are they able to enjoy being in heaven?

"They're dead, Jim!" Maybe you will believe Paul.

1 Corinthians 15: ...12 But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14 And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15 More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19 If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied. ...

... 50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet.

35 posted on 09/27/2013 6:12:28 AM PDT by WVKayaker ("The only place that the left hasn't placed the blame is on their agenda..." -Sarah Palin)
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To: WVKayaker

Paul is writing about the resurrection of the body. Where does he say that those who are “asleep” are dead—specifically, dead in such a way that they cannot assist us here on earth, or pray for us?

Where does Scripture say that when people “fall asleep” in the Lord, they cease to know or love those of us still here on earth?


36 posted on 09/27/2013 6:25:15 AM PDT by Arthur McGowan (If you're FOR sticking scissors in a female's neck and sucking out her brains, you are PRO-WOMAN!)
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To: Arthur McGowan; smvoice; WVKayaker; metmom; CynicalBear; Elsie; Delta 21

Right! And that is exactly what Scripture says, huh?

And the Lord your God says....just follow the dictates of one’s conscience....ya wanna believe in Me, great...ya don’t, that’s great too. And everybody’s happy, happy, happy.

Never heard such a load of hogwash in my life!

Guys, I really don’t think we need even bother with this anymore. Anyone trolling or lurking on this site will be able to see the stupidity and ignorance a mile away.

Who in their right mind would want any part of a Catholic god?


37 posted on 09/27/2013 6:26:56 AM PDT by jodyel
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Comment #38 Removed by Moderator

To: Legatus; metmom; smvoice; WVKayaker; Elsie; CynicalBear; Delta 21

We don’t know!!!! It is up to God!!!!

Truly, truly I say to you...Catholics have to be the most gullible, ignorant, unsaved group in the world.

Are ya’ll really that ignorant?

Thank God I serve a God who leaves me in no doubt as to my eternal state. Boggles the mind that grown men and women could believe such stupidity!

I did address it...read on or are all Catholics blind too? Oh yeah, they are.


39 posted on 09/27/2013 6:30:47 AM PDT by jodyel
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To: Chainmail

Attack, attack, attack....poor pitiful Catholics...poor, poor them!!!

Who are Catholics gonna cry to when real persecution out in the real world comes after them?

Ghostbusters?

Don’t expect Jesus to ride to ya’ll’s rescue when y’all have always believed in hogwash.

Grown men and women believe this stupid Catholic stuff...boggles the mind.


40 posted on 09/27/2013 6:34:42 AM PDT by jodyel
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To: Arthur McGowan

friend, I cannot help you. Maybe the Holy Spirit can reach through the muck and mire of Roman Catholicism. You come back at me asking where it says what you wanted to say, but you don’t give me anything by way of direction.

They are dead. They are waiting for the resurrection! What do you not understand about that? I don’t care what the Roman Catholic Church teaches, but I knows what Scripture tells us.

“They are dead, Jim!” They are asleep until the last trump blows… and they are not going to be doing anything to help you here on earth. Claims of miracles and astounding feats are easily spread like all rumors. But just like the rumor mills, what begins with the first telling is completely twisted by the time it gets to the last ear. That confusion does not come from God. God shines his light and dispels the darkness. The light is Jesus Christ. The hope is for us. He’s shining on you now!


41 posted on 09/27/2013 6:35:17 AM PDT by WVKayaker ("The only place that the left hasn't placed the blame is on their agenda..." -Sarah Palin)
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To: WVKayaker

There’s absolutely nothing illogical about the Virgin Birth, the Resurrection, or any other miraculous occurrence. They are facts. Facts aren’t logical or illogical. They just exist. Some of them cannot be explained by natural processes, but they are facts, nevertheless, and they are neither logical or illogical.

It is THOUGHT that is either logical or illogical. There is nothing in Scripture that provides an excuse to engage in irrational or illogical thinking or speaking.

In the simplest (but perfectly valid) terms, the rules of logic are simply rules for how to avoid self-contradiction. And nothing in Scripture excuses self-contradiction.


42 posted on 09/27/2013 6:39:14 AM PDT by Arthur McGowan (If you're FOR sticking scissors in a female's neck and sucking out her brains, you are PRO-WOMAN!)
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To: Arthur McGowan
There’s absolutely nothing illogical about the Virgin Birth, the Resurrection, or any other miraculous occurrence.

If they are facts, prove them. The rest of your verbiage is just more of the same leaping to conclusions. Give me chapter and verse IN CONTEXT from Scripture to make your points, not the catechism of the Roman organization...

Hebrews 11: 11 Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. 2 This is what the ancients were commended for.

3 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible. ...

43 posted on 09/27/2013 6:45:30 AM PDT by WVKayaker ("The only place that the left hasn't placed the blame is on their agenda..." -Sarah Palin)
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To: WVKayaker

Well, anybody knows that the body goes into the grave.

What is the state of the soul between now and the General Resurrection?

What is a “dead” soul? Does it cease to exist, and then come back into existence later?

It seems to me that the deadness of the dead is central to your understanding of Christianity. You certainly pound on the point enough, and call people names who question this doctrine. It is obviously very, very important.

So: Where, or in what state, are the souls of people who have physically died? If they are dead, what does that mean? Non-existent. Or, existent and “frozen” somehow?


44 posted on 09/27/2013 6:45:39 AM PDT by Arthur McGowan (If you're FOR sticking scissors in a female's neck and sucking out her brains, you are PRO-WOMAN!)
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To: WVKayaker

Well, anybody knows that the body goes into the grave.

What is the state of the soul between now and the General Resurrection?

What is a “dead” soul? Does it cease to exist, and then come back into existence later?

It seems to me that the deadness of the dead is central to your understanding of Christianity. You certainly pound on the point enough, and call people names who question this doctrine. It is obviously very, very important.

So: Where, or in what state, are the souls of people who have physically died? If they are dead, what does that mean? Non-existent. Or, existent and “frozen” somehow?


45 posted on 09/27/2013 6:45:39 AM PDT by Arthur McGowan (If you're FOR sticking scissors in a female's neck and sucking out her brains, you are PRO-WOMAN!)
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To: Arthur McGowan; smvoice; Elsie; Delta 21; WVKayaker; metmom

Same thing the man in the original article said...but Catholics won’t see that. They’ll parse it down to the nth degree to make their case and they won’t even do it with Scripture.

I can honestly see now why the Roman Catholic Church is called the Whore of Babylon!

Some Catholics are so far gone I don’t think there is any hope...never in my life have I seen such naivete, such gullibility, such utter folly and stupidity. And Catholics think we need to learn about Christianity???

I sure hope I am standing within hearing range when some of this lovely bunch come before the judgment. Un-frickin-believable!

Guys, if you want to continue in this futile quest then more power to you, but this one has had enough. Any lurker within 100 light years can see the idiocy and futility of Catholic theology. And anyone stupid enough to get sucked into the Catholic vortex gets exactly what he deserves.


46 posted on 09/27/2013 6:47:13 AM PDT by jodyel
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To: WVKayaker

You don’t believe that the Resurrection is a fact?

I thought you said you are Christian. You can’t be a Christian if you don’t believe the Resurrection happened.


47 posted on 09/27/2013 6:49:27 AM PDT by Arthur McGowan (If you're FOR sticking scissors in a female's neck and sucking out her brains, you are PRO-WOMAN!)
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To: Arthur McGowan
What is the state of the soul between now and the General Resurrection?

Arthur, thanks for playing but you are not a winner this time. Don't bother trying again. Your questions have already been answered, if you take the time to check out God's word. If you insist on following Catholic doctrine, it's not my soul that is in danger.

Hebrews 11: ...32 And what more shall I say? I do not have time to tell about Gideon, Barak, Samson and Jephthah, about David and Samuel and the prophets, 33 who through faith conquered kingdoms, administered justice, and gained what was promised; who shut the mouths of lions, 34 quenched the fury of the flames, and escaped the edge of the sword; whose weakness was turned to strength; and who became powerful in battle and routed foreign armies. 35 Women received back their dead, raised to life again. There were others who were tortured, refusing to be released so that they might gain an even better resurrection. 36 Some faced jeers and flogging, and even chains and imprisonment. 37 They were put to death by stoning; they were sawed in two; they were killed by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated— 38 the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, living in caves and in holes in the ground.

39 These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised, 40 since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

48 posted on 09/27/2013 6:54:45 AM PDT by WVKayaker ("The only place that the left hasn't placed the blame is on their agenda..." -Sarah Palin)
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To: jodyel

You haven’t answered my simple question:

If the person who wrote the original article is a man devoted to the truth, why did he manufacture a fake “quote” from Pope Paul VI? And a “quote” that said the opposite of what Pope Paul really said!

Can you answer that simple question?


49 posted on 09/27/2013 6:55:03 AM PDT by Arthur McGowan (If you're FOR sticking scissors in a female's neck and sucking out her brains, you are PRO-WOMAN!)
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To: Arthur McGowan

Democrat? That lies?


50 posted on 09/27/2013 6:58:35 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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