Posted on 10/04/2013 2:11:50 PM PDT by jodyel
Very interesting, and convincing, points made. Thanks.
Thanks, good exposition.
There was some discussion awhile back and some were holding to post-trib so I thought it might be a good idea to post re: pre-trib which is the view I hold.
Glad you enjoyed.
Have never met him or Dr. Ice.
And they hold their prophecy conference every year around Christmas time, I think, in the Dallas area where I live. I should attend one year.
I believe that the pre-trib position is the correct one, too.
The author makes an excellent point which I, and I’m sure many others of opposing views, never thought of. What is the difference between the tribulations experienced by believers throughout the Church Age and that in the Seven-Year Tribulation? Is it just a matter of degree? If so, what were the Christians under the exceedingly cruel Roman Emperor Nero? Chopped liver?
Christians have been skinned alive, tortured at length, fed to wild beast, cast out of society, and countless other indignities and cruelties to mention. How can it get any worse under the Anti-Christ?
The obvious answer is that the trials endured by Church-Age Christians are imposed by a pagan, god-hating world. The sufferings that will be inflicted on humanity during the Great Tribulation will be by God himself, using the instrument of the Anti-Christ as a bludgeon against Israel until the time of their deliverance.
A B C
Enoch
Book 1: Watchers
Chapter 1
1 The words of the blessing of Enoch, wherewith he blessed the elect and righteous, who will be 2 living in the day of tribulation, when all the wicked and godless are to be removed. And he took up his parable and said -Enoch a righteous man, whose eyes were opened by God, saw the vision of the Holy One in the heavens, which the angels showed me, and from them I heard everything, and from them I understood as I saw, but not for this generation, but for a remote one which is for to come.
3 Concerning the elect I said, and took up my parable concerning them: The Holy Great One will come forth from His dwelling, 4 And the eternal God will tread upon the earth, (even) on Mount Sinai, [And appear from His camp] And appear in the strength of His might from the heaven of heavens. 5 And all shall be smitten with fear And the Watchers shall quake, And great fear and trembling shall seize them unto the ends of the earth. 6 And the high mountains shall be shaken, And the high hills shall be made low, And shall melt like wax before the flame 7 And the earth shall be wholly rent in sunder, And all that is upon the earth shall perish, And there shall be a judgement upon all (men).
8 But with the righteous He will make peace. And will protect the elect, And mercy shall be upon them. And they shall all belong to God, And they shall be prospered, And they shall all be blessed. And He will help them all, And light shall appear unto them, And He will make peace with them'. 9 And behold! He cometh with ten thousands of His holy ones To execute judgement upon all, And to destroy all the ungodly: And to convict all flesh Of all the works of their ungodliness which they have ungodly committed, And of all the hard things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.
And...
Matthew 13
The Parable of the Tares Explained
36 Then Yeshua sent the multitude away and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.” 37 He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. 39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels.
40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!
See: Malachi 4, Daniel 7:21, Jude 1:14, Revelation 13:7, etc...
Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!
Buckle up! Cuz the ride just gets wilder!
John Lennon
Yes, and I have to admit that had never occurred to me...but it should have.
We are being taken out of the world and being spared God’s wrath on the unbelieving world.
Hallelujah!
Over the years I have noticed an argument against pretribulationism which goes something like the following: "The New Testament teaches that we will suffer persecution and tribulation as followers of Christ, therefore, I believe the Church will go through the tribulation." The New Testament does teach that Believers will suffer persecution and tribulation, but it does not follow that because of this the Church will go through the tribulation....
The point is that non-pretribulationists believe that future tribulation during the seven-year tribulation is basically more of the same kind of persecution that has been going on for the last two thousand years.
Statements like that make me think Ice really doesn't understand what the other side is saying.
What of an abomination of desolation set up in 688 (dome of the rock) and the prophetic 1948 and 1967 tie in to those with daniel and revelation and that date of 688?
What does the other side say then?
Real quick. Bible says the dead in Christ shall rise first then those who remain. And the dead are the first to leave. We will not preceed them! When? At the last trump. The seventh (last) trump (et) is fairly close to the end of the 3 and 1/2 year Great tribulation. The apostles (except one) all had their lives ended horribly. Most of the prophets met an untimely end. If you are NOT raptured before all comes to pass make sure you are not decieved by any of the miracles designed by the antichrist.
BTW, the rapture theory has only been around a little over a hundred years.
Jus’ sayin’.
You will be spared Yahweh’s wrath. But that wrath is not poured out until the end of the trib.
Actually the “rapture theory” has been around since the Apostle Paul. He wrote about what was the future of the Church the Body of Christ.
Did you miss the point, wheat, about the Tribulation being about God’s wrath and not tribulations and persecutions from man or satan?
It is an important distinction.
See you caught it here.
“What does the other side say then?”
Uh no. Do you really believe that the church that has been martyred for 2000 years will skip out at the last minute? It will be tough to show which one of you so called christians will keep the faith and not accept the mark of the beast. Only through persecution will we know the true bride of christ.
Please look at the Feast of Trumpets. Are you at the first or the last trumpet? Do you know Torah? Or just some doctrine that was thought up in the 1900’s to make christians feel better. But at the end gold is refined by fire.
By the way. I’m a christian and I will not take the mark of the beast. But when Obama creates a crisis and the SHTF what do you think the the RFID chip is? If you take it good luck going before the throne of Christ.
So if you are waiting for the rapture train better hope it comes and takes you before Barry Soetoro and the globalists start trading RFID chips/food for your guns and your silver and gold.
Pre Trib Rapture is the only thing that fits what scripture teaches.
Glad you know everything, Georgia Girl 2...that’s a load off my mind. lol
No idea where you guys come up with this stuff.
Did you read the part that says the church is raptured and is not subject to God’s wrath? That would be the salient point.
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