Posted on 10/08/2013 6:04:00 AM PDT by Colofornian
(Salt Lake City, UT) — A group of activist women seeking access to the Priesthood Session at the 183rd Semiannual General Conference were turned away. The 200 women are part of a group called Ordain Women, which is lobbying the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints to allow for the ordination of women. A BYU graduated founded the group last year after returning from a mission to Barcelona.
You and I have a very different understanding of those verses, and so do your own evangelical friend protesters at Temple Square over the weekend. I too would like to know what denomination you are, and if your own feminism beliefs play a role in what your understanding of the bible is. As has been stated by other non-Mormons here, your beliefs are counter to most of Christendom.
Perhaps you should lay aside this latest anti Mormon effort and move on to your next one, you have so many, no one will notice.
Not at all.
1. Most of Christendom is anti-ordaining women. (I've NEVER advocated ordaining women; and Mormons don't really ordain women or men for that matter! They pride themselves on "lay leaders" leading the church...so "ordination" issue is not at play here...it's a "straw man" issue here & you know it...it's misleading to pretend it is!)
2. Most of Christendom places "prophets" within the time frame of
(a) The Old Testament;
and (b) the earliest church (Philip's daughters -- Acts 21:8-9)...or they say that Philips daughters were not prophetesses -- but rather had a spiritual prophetic gift...more dynamic than a given "official office" within the Church.
I am NOT at odds with either (a) or (b) above, ESPECIALLY given that Hebrews 1:1-2 clearly says:
1 In the PAST God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 BUT in these LAST DAYS he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.
Hebrews 1:1-2 CLEARLY says that the main consideration as to why we no longer need any "offices" of "prophets" is because Jesus is the Ultimate Prophet...and He promised He would never leave His Church (Matthew 28:20).
YOU -- and other Mormons -- are at odds with Hebrews 1:1-2...despite its very "latter-day" specific language! YOU -- and other Mormons -- are the ones who adhere to prophet offices...which makes you wonder why if Anna was a prophet (Luke 2:36), why do you discriminate vs. females as prophets merely upon skin texture & biological differences!!! Here the Book of Mormon CLEARLY makes an unusual claim that Jesus' church was well established well before Jesus mentioned "church" for the first time in Matthew 18...which would mean that Anna was a "prophet" (Luke 2:36) at a time that the Mormon church claims the church was already in operation!!!!!
3. I utterly denounce most of the feminist worldviews INSIDE and OUTSIDE the church. That includes denouncing feminist perspectives as commonly uttered by liberal mainline denominations like the United Church of Christ, Presbyterian USA, the Episcopalian Church, the ELCA, the United Methodist Church, & other similar bodies. Many of these are also pro-abortion at many levels -- and you of all people should know that I even criticize Mormon church leadership positions on abortion as quite liberal in some areas...like if you pray to the Mormon god and he says, "OK, you can have an abortion," that gives Mormons the go ahead to kill at will.
What? Are you claiming that...
(a) The text -- like 1 Peter 2:4-9 -- can't speak for itself?
Or that (b) The Holy Spirit stuttered so much in speaking thru Peter we can't understand plain Greek (now translated into English)???
What plain part of 1 Peter 2:4-9 is there to misunderstand?
Let's review:
This time I'll use the KJV; let's just focus on verses 5 & 9:
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual HOUSE, an holy PRIESTHOOD, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
Questions:
1. What "house" do you know of excludes women?
2. Are only MEN "acceptable to God by Jesus Christ" -- or are women also?
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal PRIESTHOOD, an holy NATION, a peculiar PEOPLE; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light
Questions:
3. Since when in the history of the Judeo-Christian world have women been excluded when an overall reference is highlighted as a "nation?"
4. Since when in the history of the Judeo-Christian world have women been excluded when an overall reference is given as a "people?"
5. Have only men been "called out of darkness into His wonderful light?"
6. And note the adjective "royal" -- since when are queens & princesses excluded from royalty???
ALL: Note the Scripture-twisting, open distortion, & Bible-verse snipping Mormon apologists like Ripliancum have to resort to so as to NOT having to face plain readings of the Scriptures.
Ripliancum & Teppe would have you believe that references to...
...households...
...nations...
...people groups...
...royalty...
...and kingdoms [Revelation 1:6]...
...automatically excludes women...
...just so that they don't have to wrestle with the plain texts that the priesthood is given to these GROUPS!
That is shameful Scripture-twisting...and if Catholics buy into it as well -- just so that they can continue to make "priesthood" mean something it is Biblically not -- that is placing tradition ahead of the New Testament!
And then for all of you Protestants & Catholics who think "ordination" is Biblically based, please provide the Greek word for "ordained" contained in the New Testament -- and give us a NT Biblical phrase where the word "ordained" is attached to a specific "ordained" leader in the Church...
Pelosi denies being a liberal, claims to be a Christian, and hands out homework assignments as insults.
How many botox injections have you had? Inquiring Christians want to know.
And this, Colofornian is why I stopped discussing things with you long ago. You take a teaching or a scripture we’re discussing, and in the same breath of accusation of twisting scripture, you snip what is convenient for your debate tactics, all the while engaging in malicious contention that that I have no stomach nor desire for.
I will respond this last time as to your tactics, and then be done with you. Your 1 Peter “interpretation” leaves out who he is talking to in these phrases. Just a few verses later in 17, he speaks of the brotherhood. “17 Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God...” It’s not until verse one of the next chapter that he addresses the women, (”Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands...”)
Yes, we have a different view of scripture, and it’s different than most of your own evangelical and protestant fellows, and especially our Catholic friends. You lambast modern prophets and apostles, yet we are admonished to have them precisely so we aren’t carries about with every wind of doctrine, like seen among your varying viewpoints on this issue alone.
Your constant bashing of my faith, through hostility, while getting my ire at times, has shown me that there is no effort on your part to convert through the spirit of Christ. I will stop responding to you, because I too get filled with contention when I do, and I have no desire to go there anymore. Good luck to you, I hope you find peace.
FYI...From the AP Oct. 8 2013: Mormon Church softening its stance on homosexuality
I have no doubt that Mormonism will adapt itself again to the culture. Did it before, will happen again. Especially in the area of polygamy.
Yes. 100% agreement there.
You say... You lambast modern prophets and apostles...
But per Hebrews 1:1-2, which apparently you have not taken to heart, says that ONLY JESUS CHRIST born of Bethlehem (not the Mormon Jesus born of Jerusalem) is our Living Prophet. And, no, I don't lambast Him.
You say... Good luck to you, I hope you find peace.
OK, I know that "Good luck" is a common trite phrase -- usually no deep ponderous underlying aspect attached -- but ya know, Rip, God is sovereign. I am not fatalistic; nor do I believe in "luck" -- good or bad.
And peace? Jesus is not only our ONLY PROPHET, but He Himself is our Living Peace! And yes, I have found Him...or rather, He found me:
For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; (Ephesians 2:14)
You say..."Your constant bashing of my faith..."
Yet, which bashers assumed the now 24/7 initiative to claim about worldwide Christianity that...
...all Protestant, Catholic & Orthodox churches are all "apostate?"
...all Protestant, Catholic & Orthodox churches are allegedly not part of the "only true & living church on the face of the earth" (D&C 1:30) -- thereby labeling them as false and dead?
...all Protestant, Catholic & Orthodox creeds -- 100% of them -- are an "abomination" to the Mormon gods?
...the gift of indwelling Holy Spirit is to be found NOWHERE outside of Mormonism?
...no missionary work outside of Mormonism is recognized as divinely authorized?
...no baptism outside of Mormonism is recognized as divinely authorized?
...no communion outside of Mormonism is recognized as divinely authorized?
...no spiritual gifts outside of Mormonism is recognized as divinely given?
...although the apostle Paul wrote about prophetic gifts to the Corinthians (which is distinct from any official "OFFICE" of prophet as we find in the Old Testament), Mormonism claims no one but their top echelon speaks prophetically any more as guided by the Holy Spirit? [Ironically, many Mormon apologists and writers have attempted to belittle Christianity for saying God doesn't reveal revelations any more; yet, these very advocates of Mormonism have "bottled up" God from speaking to anyone beyond a few who happen to live in Salt Lake City!]
Answer to each of these questions? The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (the Mormons) YOUR faith, is it not? (Then start taking responsibility for what your tithe pays for!)
Why does your Mormon faith bash us 24/7 as the heirs of "the Great Apostasy?"
Why does your faith bash us 24/7, claiming we in the Christian church have...
...zero priesthood authority?
...zero authoritative, prophetic revelation
...our spiritual forefathers corrupted the scriptures beyond internal restoration or reformation?
Why does your faith bash 100% of our professing believers as being "corrupt" -- corrupt in both our theology as well as our individual & collective morality? (Joseph Smith History, vv. 18-20, Pearl of Great Price)
Your words and tactics speak volumes louder than my silence. Please don’t bother asking for a response from me again.
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