Posted on 10/20/2013 11:29:26 AM PDT by CHRISTIAN DIARIST
Who did Jesus have fellowship with?
The apostles and diciples...Let's not play semantics...Jesus did not hook up with the 'sick in spirit' and take them bowling...They never went on canoe trips or camping together...
“So do the elect have any choice in the matter?”
Strictly, no, we have not chosen Christ:
Joh_15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
On the the other hand, there is a sense that all those who are the elect, willingly come to God, and not by force, as Calvin explains it in his commentary on John 6:
“To come to Christ being here used metaphorically for believing, the Evangelist, in order to carry out the metaphor in the apposite clause, says that those persons are drawn whose understandings God enlightens, and whose hearts he bends and forms to the obedience of Christ. The statement amounts to this, that we ought not to wonder if many refuse to embrace the Gospel; because no man will ever of himself be able to come to Christ, but God must first approach him by his Spirit; and hence it follows that all are not drawn, but that God bestows this grace on those whom he has elected. True, indeed, as to the kind of drawing, it is not violent, so as to compel men by external force; but still it is a powerful impulse of the Holy Spirit, which makes men willing who formerly were unwilling and reluctant. It is a false and profane assertion, therefore, that none are drawn but those who are willing to be drawn, [153] as if man made himself obedient to God by his own efforts; for the willingness with which men follow God is what they already have from himself, who has formed their hearts to obey him.”
Thus our willingness, in other words, is from God who made us willing. So that we choose to believe in Christ, yet it is only because Christ first chose us.
So the God of agape created some with the sole intent of condemning them to eternal suffering. That would make him the god of cruelty.
No thinks I will stick with the God of Love.
Wonderfully stated, redleghunter.
One evening when I was nine my grandmother was reading Bible stories as I sat across the dining table from her. For the first time I asked God to come into my heart. Suddenly, almost like a physical blow, I was overwhelmed by an intense, unbearable joy and I began to cry. Then the thought occurred to me: “Why am I crying when I am so happy?” So I laughed. And cried, all mixed up together. This was my first experience with laughing and crying at the same time.
Then I became aware of a Presence of goodness and love, and this Being was radiating pure love all over me. There was nobody there that I could see, but I knew with all my heart that He loved me, protected me, and would always be there for me, even after I died.
This is my testimony. It never happened again. All I know is that He lifted a little corner of Heaven and let me peek in so I would not be overcome by this ugly world and the organized unbelief that surrounds us.
By believing in Jesus Christ (Jn 3:16; Acts 16:31)
By repentance (Acts 2:38; 2 Pet 3:9)
By baptism (Jn 3:5; 1 Pet 3:21; Titus 3:5)
By eating His flesh and drinking His blood (Jn 6)
By the work of the Spirit (Jn 3:5; 2 Cor 3:6)
By declaring with our mouths (Lk 12:8; Rom 10:9)
By coming to a knowledge of the truth (1 Tim 2:4; Heb 10:26)
By works (Rom 2:6-7; James 2:24)
By grace (Acts 15:11; Eph 2:8)
By His blood (Rom 5:9; Heb 9:22)
By His righteousness (Rom 5:17; 2 Pet 1:1)
By keeping the commandments (Matt 19:17)
By our words (Matt 12:37)
By compassion toward the needy (John 10:25-37; Matthew 25:31-46)
By enduring to the end (Matt.24:13)
"All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in righteousness." 2 Timothy 3:16
This is something I've struggled with for years. If I think I'm saved, asked for the Lord to forgive my sins, and done my best to try to live as a Christian, yet when I finally pass from this life, I find myself in Hell, with no chance whatever to escape. Then, at the Final Judgement, God informs me that I was never His, no matter what I believed?
If that is truly the case, then that IS monstrous. It's the ultimate crapshoot, the ultimate gamble. You THINK you're winning, and end up losing at all in the end.
I will believe in OSAS and call it good, thank you.
Your post suggests that we were made for our own purposes, whatever they may turn out to be. Like it or not (according to my faith, anyhow) we were made for God’s purposes and pleasure. He delights in our recognition and love of Him. He gives us the wherewithal to believe in Him and to love Him.
The search for God is built into our DNA. All societies reflect this, and we all ask ourselves about our Creator. Some deny it, but if you watch them (or read their posts) it is clear that they are struggling with the concept of God’s existence and many of them react angrily when the very issue is raised.
Could God be wrong? Perhaps (but I don’t believe so, in the truest sense of the word “believe”), but what does it mean if God is wrong or did something wrong?
If my true belief were that God only saves those who pull for Duke, you’d find me pulling for Duke. My faith teaches me that what is required is to love God with all my heart, soul, mind and strength and to love my neighbor as myself. I foul it up pretty often, but that is my aim.
Always seeming paradoxes.
The only logical way to grasp this concept once the premise is accepted is to throw out a sequential flow of time. Once again we must leave our way of seeing time and the universe behind.
So we are again being forced to accept an un-provable concept and wrap a theory around it to make it work.
I was pressured by my Southern Baptist family to take that walk down the aisle at the conclusion of a church service and speak with a preacher with bad breath at the age of 9.
I subsequently figured out the scam, had to endure more of the same until age 18, at which point I moved out and never darkened the door of a church again, except for weddings and funerals, and only did that under protest.
I saw through the whole thing at an early age.
Now, at age 61, I have no regrets.
“If I am reading what I think I am reading, you’re saying that there are some created to be cast into Hell and tortured for all eternity even if they desire to be saved and ask for salvation.”
The first part is correct, but the last part is wrong. I never said that anyone is damned who desired to be saved and asked for salvation. My point is, that no man willingly desires to be saved or asks for salvation unless drawn to do it by the Holy Ghost. All those who will be damned, jump into it headlong, or in their self-righteousness. All those who are saved, they are taught of the Lord, and all those taught of the Lord do come to the Son.
Therefore, you have nothing to fear. Though I cannot see into your heart, do you desire to serve God? Do you despair of yourself and your inability to merit heaven, and put your trust in Christ? Then you do well.
I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.
2 Timothy 4:7
“Always seeming paradoxes.
The only logical way to grasp this concept once the premise is accepted is to throw out a sequential flow of time. Once again we must leave our way of seeing time and the universe behind.”
Not at all! One only desires to throw out the sequence if they are still trying to save their own free-will. Stomp it beneath your feet and toss its remains into hell, and accept the scriptural sequence, which puts the whole thing in the hand of God even before the foundation of the world.
2Ti_1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
You are starting with the premise that we are created. So if we are created beings then we must have a purpose either corporately or individually. I cannot believe a created being has a purpose unto himself. Why would he?
Yes, yes, and yes! I know I do not merit Heaven, and the ONLY way I'm getting there is through the Lord Jesus. I fall so short sometimes in my walk with God. I rely on His grace a LOT.
Couldn’t have said it better. Salvation is just the first step. You need to continue running the race. If you turn aside or quit you don’t get the prize.
Then why John 3:16?
If Jesus knocks and you don’t answer the door... What then?
Biblical evidence of free will yes?
Let's see, tax collectors, a woman caught in adultery, a Samarian woman that had 5 husbands....Yep each one of them a paragon of virtue.
What does “darkening the door of a church” have to do with salvation anyway? But if you have no desire to be saved for eternity it would be a total waste of time to “darken the door of a church” anyway right?
I bet Jesus went camping with Pharisees, Sadducees, Governors. You know TV preachers and Politicians.
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