Posted on 10/21/2013 9:32:05 AM PDT by armydoc
Pope Francis called for a more open-minded Church on Thursday, suggesting that when a Christian “becomes a disciple of the ideology, he has lost the faith.”
Francis said because ideology is rigid and non-inclusive, it pushes people away and leaves out the grace of God.
“And, even worse, the Lord cannot be close to the people,” Francis said.
“The faith passes, so to speak, through a distiller and becomes ideology,” he said. “And ideology does not beckon [people]. In ideologies there is not Jesus: in his tenderness, his love, his meekness. And ideologies are rigid, always. Of every sign: rigid.”
It is judgmental and without exception, which Francis says is not the Lord’s message.
“The faith becomes ideology and ideology frightens, ideology chases away the people, distances, distances the people and distances of the Church of the people,” he said. “But it is a serious illness, this of ideological Christians.”
He said the Church does not want to keep the door shut and the key in its pocket.
He also claimed Christians who lose faith and prefer the ideologies are “rigid, moralistic, ethical, but without kindness.”
“The key that opens the door to the faith is prayer,” he said. “If there is no prayer, you always close the door.”
A person who does not pray is “arrogant, is proud, is sure of himself. He is not humble. He seeks his own advancement.”
That being said, he also warned, “It is one thing to pray, and another thing to say prayers.” He said people who are obsessed with Christian ideology don’t pray; they simply recite the same prayers they’ve memorized years ago.
see 58 and 60. While I agree that words have “meanings” often those “meanings” have histories -— both ignored and also crafted or spun.
but we are dancing on the head of a pin — the headline was meant to start a controversy where most of use, Catholic or not, see none upon reading the actual context of the homily and the words of Jesus cited from the bible in the homily itself.
That being said, he also warned, “It is one thing to pray, and another thing to say prayers.” He said people who are obsessed with Christian ideology don’t pray; they simply recite the same prayers they’ve memorized years ago.I would like the pope to explain the above; how does he think we should actually pray? Is he referring to "mental prayer"? If so, maybe he could explain it. Myself, I enjoy repeating [the most beautiful] prayers I've memorized long ago.
I'm sure Pope Francis knows what he is doing, but he is confusing a lot of Catholics. For example, praying the rosary is done by rote.
Looks like we’ll have to agree to disagree.
That a belief system may be true does not make it any less a belief system.
Let’s look at the definition you use, section by section, to see whether it applies to Christianity.
“A systematic scheme of ideas.” Obviously applicable.
“usually relating to politics and society, or to the conduct of a class or group,” This says “usually,” which does not exclude the possibility that the scheme of ideas is universally useful or true, rather than limited to a given class, group or society. Or that the class, group or society it applies to is that of all humanity for all time.
“regarded as justifying actions” Anyone claiming to be a Christian will use his belief as justifying actions.
“especially one that is held implicitly as a whole and maintained regardless of events.” Or as Paul put it, “Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.” Presumably a Christian will not change his belief system (or ideology) because of momentary events.
I think you are reading implications into what I say that just aren’t there. Noting that Christianity is an ideology that competes against other ideologies is just a statement of fact. It does not necessarily imply that it is “just another” ideology. There is only one Truth, though there are an infinite variety of untruths.
The Pope is very clear. He cannot help how the liberal Media interprets his message and hears only what they want to hear. And he cannot help how people here interpret his message, and hear what they want to hear.
The Pope is perfectly clear. None are so blind as those who will not see. None are so deaf as those who will not hear.
Mehtinks it is you who hears what you want to hear.
You think Pelosi is in on this?
What the Pope said was that prayer - a dialogue with God - is the key to faith. It’s the key to coming to church in the first place.
Salvation is the key. It’s the non-negotiable. Beyond that, everything is open to interpretation.
Perhaps. But I am not the one interpreting, or making a federal case out of it. Just listening with my heart.
Well, I've had four different Catholics give me four different answers as to what the Pope meant by "ideology" - so he's not that clear. I'm sure he is to those who "see" and "hear" exactly what they want to see and hear.
Sigh. I cannot speak for them. All I know is what the Pope has been emphasizing all along . . . not the arguments of the rational mind, but the Love that transcends them, the love of Christ in our hearts, the love that moves the sun and the other stars. Peace to you, Sir.
Agreed, in spades.
People who say “God is Love” usually mean “Love is God”.
Go figure.
This seems to me to be a ventriloquist's argument: put words into the pope's mouth, then stand aghast at what he's "said"!
There’s a difference between ideology and doctrine. Ideology is a construct that ordinarily accommodates doctrine to the political, economic, social assumptions of our time. It is fundamentally allergic to mystery and, therefore, to revelation.
Ideology is the antagonistic of the teachings of the Bible. The Bible is full of revelation and mystery, i.e. elements which do not it into ideology.
Or not.
I would dispute that. Some of my RCIA students naively see the Bible, for instance, as if it were a manual of systematic moral philosophy. I keep pointing out to them that much of it is not exactly moral, and it's anything but systematic. It is full of weirdly mysterious things which you're stuck with (which I, a believer, am stuck with) whether they make sense to me at all, simply because they are true (defining true as: stuff that happened.)
Still less is Christ, Our Lord, an ideology. He is an infinite, divine Person who cannot be lopped off, shaped and framed into a human taxonomy system.
Ideology is antithetical to Mystery.
I would say that ideology inherently can’t accommodate mystery. This is almost a tautology.
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