Posted on 11/13/2013 5:43:01 PM PST by Faith Presses On
The Bible clearly says that women should dress modestly. Why does much of the church in America not follow what the Bible says? (And I'm a woman myself, I should add). It's not so much new believers who dress immodestly who are a concern, but women in leadership.
"In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works." (1 Timothy 2:9-10)
Because I said so.
I do try to say "Because I said so, and do it now, I'll explain later".
Later sometimes turns out to be 20 years later when they can handle the explanation.
Men are heads of household. Patriarchs. They need to act like it.
Flip side is they have to be right, or it screws everything up.
No pressure, though.
/johnny
> They are children. They need pushed.
Actually, most of them are young adults, now. When they were younger, we bought their clothes. Now they earn their own money and buy a lot of their own clothes, and their friends give them clothes, too.
We have had 11 children. Three are married, so 8 still live at home. Well, 7, as one is off at Bible college. To be sure, they are more modestly dressed than most of the young people their age. A couple of the girls are really good about it and have no problems dressing modestly. A couple others are rebels in that regard, though they are cooperative in every other respect. And a couple others are compliant, though they do try to press the boundaries and need to be reminded from time to time.
All our kids were homeschooled, except the two oldest. The gravitational pull towards more worldly apparel was introduced by “family friendly” movies, un-saved family, and, sadly, friends from church. But, as you point out, we aren’t going to forgo meeting with the saints of God just because there are temptations, neither can we shut out our extended families or the worlds of sports and entertainment.
We are hoping that as they mature and start families of their own, the teaching on modesty to which they’ve been exposed will enjoy a resurgence in their personal lives.
The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.
Isaiah 3:16-24
16 Moreover the Lord saith, Because the daughters of Zion are haughty, and walk with stretched forth necks and wanton eyes, walking and mincing as they go, and making a tinkling with their feet:
17 Therefore the Lord will smite with a scab the crown of the head of the daughters of Zion, and the Lord will discover their secret parts.
18 In that day the Lord will take away the bravery of their tinkling ornaments about their feet, and their cauls, and their round tires like the moon,
19 The chains, and the bracelets, and the mufflers,
20 The bonnets, and the ornaments of the legs, and the headbands, and the tablets, and the earrings,
21 The rings, and nose jewels,
22 The changeable suits of apparel, and the mantles, and the wimples, and the crisping pins,
23 The glasses, and the fine linen, and the hoods, and the vails.
24 And it shall come to pass, that instead of sweet smell there shall be stink; and instead of a girdle a rent; and instead of well set hair baldness; and instead of a stomacher a girding of sackcloth; and burning instead of beauty.
1 Corinthians 11:14
Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
1 Corinthians 11:15
But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.
1 Timothy 2:9-14
9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
Teens/young adults need standards. Own those standards and require those around you, regardless of age, meet them.
My neighbor's 13 year old grandchildren are frequent guests here. They act like adults because if they didn't, they wouldn't be allowed here.
We have a good relationship based on mutual respect and that I teach them things while they are here. Things they want to learn.
Physics/engineering for the boychild, including some dangerous stuff that I carefully monitor, and art for the girl twin, which I provide media for her to work with.
I share that to say that those kids know a certain standard of conduct is required in this house.
Those that don't comply, don't get to be here to benefit.
I provide the benefit. I control who gets it.
What benefits do you provide? Piper calls the tune.
/johnny
Proper dress for Church goes beyond how much or how little someone wears. Dress well, but don’t draw undue attention to yourself. Jesus taught about the hypocrites who loved to show how religious they were, and this included how they dressed. They were doing it for their own glory, and not God’s. The same thing applies today. Who is being glorified by an outfit that leaves little to the imagination? Likewise, who is being glorified by an outfit that is too modest? Don’t dress in a way that says “LOOK AT ME!!!”
No source?
All is vanity.
/johnny
I am going to pick and choose because I don’t wish to type an encyclopedia:
1st question is how do you apply this mish mash to today?
2nd The stuff from Isaiah. You know he was talking to his people at a specific time for a specific purpose. You surely don’t think that Isaiah was telling US to renounce “ changeable suits of apparel” whatever that means do you? Additionally are you saying that God wants women to stink? “And it shall come to pass, that instead of sweet smell there shall be stink; and instead of a girdle a rent; and instead of well set hair baldness; and instead of a stomacher a girding of sackcloth; and burning instead of beauty.” Pretty sure that was a punishment. what do you think?
3rd question: Paul, a Roman citizen, living in a Roman world says “Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?”
Betcha that King David had long hair. Bet Isaiah did too. Do you believe that cultural norms change over the eons and geography? I bet whatever your wife wears to church today would be scandalous 100 years ago if worn anywhere.
4th question:
“But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering. “
This is an obvious cultural norm of his time. So what? If a woman has short hair she is not holy? If a woman finds pride in the glory of her long hair isn’t that a form of idolatry?
5th question
“Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.” I know a whole bunch of smart women. My wife is one of them. She has areas of expertise and I have mine. When she speaks from her areas of expertise I listen. She listens when in my wheel house.
Could it be that Paul existed in a particular time and place where women were not universally literate?
So we can be like the hajji and freeze our culture 2000 years ago or we can accept that things are a bit different for us than they were for Isaiah 3000 years ago or for Paul 2000 years ago. Betcha Paul didn’t own a toaster, have an SUV, or ever experienced global communication or Obamacare for that matter.
If you pull out Deut. then I expect you to adhere to every single jot and tiddle in it. NO EXCEPTIONS!
Apparently an older woman in the church had brought it up to him (from the sound of it, in regards to a particular woman, but I wasn't able to determine/guess who as most dressed rather conservative).
His response, and reiterated to the congregation on Sunday - older women are supposed to counsel the younger. If you see something like that, you don't need to gossip about it, or run and tattletale to the Pastor.....have the Christian fortitude to say, "that's really pretty, but I think it might not be appropriate for church."
And that said - church was a place for worship and respectable clothing.
To the other posters asking what defines "respectable" or "proper......"
No, it's not a burka. But if your tattas and/or rear end are hanging out, or your skirt barely covers your nether region, or your pockets hang below your shorts, or you needed a shoehorn to assist getting it over your ass - yeah it's inappropriate.
And I'm a guy. I'm a younger guy. I like to look. But, you don't need to look like a whore when you go to church.
If you have to ask......yeah it's probably inappropriate.
And if you're a guy - you don't need to wear a suit and tie......but gym clothes aren't appropriate either.
What is long?
/johnny
Young women attending Mass in Havana often wear tube tops and short shorts.
That is pretty much my point Johnny. But people want rules. They really want somebody to tell them what to do. They most of all want to tell others what to do. Not just in church by the way.
As the liberal "egalitarians" and prohomosexual apologists argue.
Invoking burkas and arguing we cannot define what modesty is makes a mockery of the Word of God that commanded it. And yes, we men in muscle shirts can be guilty also. But a (normal) man is wired to be sexually attracted to shapely legs, breasts, and even bare shoulders, and while we appreciate beauty, it is a distraction. And in defining modesty, i am sure, and research shows, Jewish dress covered such in the 1st century, as they do today, tastefully and often beautifully, without wearing a burka.
Halacha regarding modesty and community customs dictate the dress code for women. This "code" is practiced primarily by Orthodox Jews. Typically, women are expected to wear sleeves extending at least to the elbow, blouses or dresses with necklines that do not expose any cleavage and skirts long enough to cover the knees when seated.
Pants or slacks may be allowed in certain instances. For example, in many religious kibbutzim the women wear pants out of habit, for the simple reason that they work in agricultural areas or perform other activities where a skirt would be less modest . This is the exception; however, when not performing these activities, skirts are worn. - http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/Women_in_Judaism_Dress.html
And the principle of veiling is seen in that even God veils Himself, and reveals Himself more fully only to those who seek Him and enter into His covenant.
A good basic rule is to dress so that the first thing a man looks at is your face. Those who dress otherwise will get more attention, but the kind of bait you use largely determines the kind of fish you catch, even as admirers.
This should get some comments.
“As the liberal “egalitarians” and prohomosexual apologists argue.”
That’s not an argument, that’s just a reactionary statement. You do so without addressing issues like long hair for men, or what qualifies as “long” for men or “short” for women. So although you reject my argument of cultural norms on it’s face, you do so without much enthusiasm.
Then you expose the wearing of pants by women for “agricultural reasons”.
So the excuses that appeal to you are ok, but the excuses of others are not.
“Then you expose the wearing of pants by women for “agricultural reasons”.”
“expose” should be “exuse”.
Ladies who fail the dress code are welcome to come fish with the Lord and I Sunday...apostolically traditional and no building fund ;)
Or plowing fields with heifers....
/johnny
You are obviously a godless homosexual revisionist >S
I wouldn't mind baiting a line and saying a prayer with you. I generally bring bread and beer to such a gathering, depending on the good Lord to provide the fishes.
/johnny
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