Let Us Honour God's Holy Spirit

Derek Prince Ministries ^ | Derek Prince

[WVKayaker]

One of the gifts I see most often publicly abused is the gift of healing. Benny Hinn comes to mind.

First one that came into my mind was Ernest Angley! I watched him pushing people to the floor, and claiming they were "slain in the Spirit". My first question was "which spirit"?

As for Derek Prince, I was saved in 1972, and became a member of a small "charismatic" independent church. I enjoyed the fellowship, but never got into some of what was happening. Let's just say I was "skeptical". I ended up attending Elim Bible Institute in Lima, NY, and saw God working through many people, but also saw more to feed my "skepticism".

But, Derek Prince and a lot of other "ministries" were big into "shepherding", which required you to get permission for your life activities through a false teaching about "submission". I had already read enough of Romans to know that God cleanses us one day at a time... and the Holy Spirit guides us our daily life!

From Wiki:

The Shepherding controversy

In 1968 Prince joined the Holy Spirit Teaching Mission (HSTM), which linked him to three other Charismatic Christian pastors living in Ft. Lauderdale: Don Basham, Bob Mumford, and Charles Simpson. The HSTM had been founded by businessman Eldon Purvis; but after the discovery of Purvis’s homosexuality the leadership team of the HSTM asked Basham, Mumford, Prince, and Simpson to help in managing the crisis.[17] Prince and the others changed the name of the HSTM to Christian Growth Ministries (CGM)in 1972.[18] CGM sought to counter what were seen as excesses within the Charismatic movement by emphasizing discipleship and pastoral care which later on was abused by those in leadership positions. ...Read more about Derek Prince and Sherpherding

[metmom]

First one that came into my mind was Ernest Angley!

Now there's a name I haven't heard in a LONG time. I forgot about him.

I am familiar with Elim. I have some friends who worked for it many years ago. They had issues about how things were done as well, and while they are not Pentecostal in the typical sense, they are more charismatic leaning, if that makes sense.

But, Derek Prince and a lot of other "ministries" were big into "shepherding", which required you to get permission for your life activities through a false teaching about "submission". I had already read enough of Romans to know that God cleanses us one day at a time... and the Holy Spirit guides us our daily life!

I have also heard about the *sheperding movement* but was unaware of his involvement in it.

I was doing some searching on the internet concerning what has been going on in Bill Johnson's church and the charismatic movement as a whole and we found this article by him. It did seem pretty solid. Is there anything in this message here that Prince gave that you take exception with?

My concern is finding answers for several friends I have who are buying into this name it and claim it stuff, looking for gold dust, feathers, holy laughter, etc. I am praying for them that God would open their eyes to see what's going on because the lifestyles of those leaders leaves MUCH to be desired. And yet some people just get so pumped with the emotionalism and when you challenge what they experienced, look out.

They're convinced it's God.

[metmom]

Thank you for that link. It was interesting reading.

Further on it mentions that he removed himself from the shepherding group and publicly repented of his involvement in it.....

CGM’s strong emphasis on submission was controversial. Lydia Prince herself disapproved, and as stories of abuses came out the movement was condemned by Pat Robertson, Kathryn Kuhlman, and the Full Gospel Business Men's Fellowship International. Most of the opposition to these teaching came from those who heard of the abuses yet never studied the actual teachings. Many leaders eventually reversed their position (e.g.; Bill Britton Ministries). Lydia died in 1975, and when Prince later wanted to marry Ruth Baker, his fellow shepherds prayed about it, and each of them initially felt it was not God's will. Derek chose to submit to their discernment. A very short time later each of the men said God made it clear to them it was His will, and Prince was re-married in 1978. Derek believed this was a test by God to see if he would live what he taught. Derek was the elder statesman of the group and lived by the principles he taught. Nowhere in any of his teaching on submission and authority does it suggest any person has the authority to demand submission. Nor does it suggest that those in authority make decisions for those under authority. The fact that these teachings were perverted and used by the immature and unscrupulous is something seen in every facet of human endeavor.

Derek later left the group and repented in public over being a member of this group.[21] There are several sermons where Derek commented on the shepherding controversy (sometimes referring to it as "discipleship movement").,[22] even in Ft. Lauderdale years after.[23]

[CynicalBear]

One thing we always need to keep in mind and be on the alert for is that Satan works to get people to deny Christ on the one side and on the other to corrupt the teachings if they do believe. We can take on faith what Jesus said but not what man teaches. We need to be very careful to “test the spirit”.

1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Given the amount of false doctrine out there the words of Paul to “search the scriptures daily” is of vital importance.

It’s interesting that your post mentions Kathryn Kuhlman. It was she that most influenced Benny Hinn after he went to her meetings in Jerusalem in 1974. There is a very good article about her here: http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/kuhlman.htm that looks to be done in an honest way. That site also has many other articles about deception in the church that may be of interest. I have not read them all so make no claims about them one way or the other.

[metmom]

Yeah, there is so much out there on the internet and some of it is really whacked out.

It’s hard to find something that you agree with on EVERY point, but still, there is enough out there showing the deception of these leaders and their behavior.

Here is another interesting link I found of a pastor speaking out against the Word of Faith movement and the excesses of it.

This next guy is Shane Idleman who pastors Westside Christian Fellowship
This message is entitled:
Avoiding False Worship and False Prophets
http://vimeo.com/65044521

In this message he shows a video clip from Bill Johnson’s church and the bizarre stuff that goes on there.

Here are a couple more links to what Bill Johnson, part of the New Apostolic Reformation, advocates.

Warning: Bill Johnson and Bethel Church
http://www.apostasywatch.com/Wolves/WolfReports/BillJohnsonBethelChurchReddingCa/WARNINGBILLJOHNSONandBETHELCHURCH/tabid/260/Default.aspx

Bill Johnson, Jesus Culture, and Bethel Church
http://redeemingmoments.com/2013/08/22/bill-johnson-jesus-culture-and-bethel-church/

Bill Johnson Exposed
http://youthapologeticstraining.com/bill-johnson-exposed-08-portals-spirit-travel-sozo-and-angel-orbs/

[CynicalBear]

>> My concern is finding answers for several friends I have who are buying into this name it and claim it stuff, looking for gold dust, feathers, holy laughter, etc.<<

One of the things I have always found that shows the error in their approach is that they more often than not give glory to the Holy Spirit rather than Jesus. If they glorify the Holy Spirit it’s a clear indication of error. It is Jesus we are to glorify.

John 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

[Salvation]

God’s Holy Spirit?????

The Holy Spirit IS God, a member of the Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

[metmom]

Where does anyone say that He isn’t?

[Salvation]

MM — you’re smart. The possessive implies that the Holy Spirit is subordinate to God.

[metmom]

It’s more about specifying which Holy Spirit one is talking about.

Lots of people claim that what they are doing is from the Holy Spirit, but while they can claim it all they want, it doesn’t mean it’s the Holy Spirit as revealed in Scripture.

Same as for those who claim to follow Jesus, like the Mormon’s who teach another Jesus than the one revealed in Scripture.

Besides, subordinate does not necessarily mean unequal in essence. Even Jesus was subordinate to the Father’s will. He talked about it Himself. He Himself said that He came to do the Father’s will. That is being in subordination to the authority of the Father.

[Gamecock]

Does no such thing.

[Iscool]

God’s Holy Spirit?????

The Holy Spirit IS God, a member of the Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

MM — you’re smart. The possessive implies that the Holy Spirit is subordinate to God.

Does God have a Son??? Who is God's Son???

Those of us who know and believe scripture know that the name used for the Trinity in the scriptures is Godhead...

Col_2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

When we say God, it isn't always God, the Father...It is sometimes the Godhead...

Often when I refer to Jesus in these posts, I'll say God, knowing while they are separate, they are one...

Your lack of bible knowledge is showing...

[CynicalBear]

>> The possessive implies that the Holy Spirit is subordinate to God.<<

Is not God one but three persons? Thus couldn’t one say “God’s Father”, God’s Son, and God’s Holy Spirit? Or must one say God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit?

[alnick]

Thank you CB. That has answered some questions I’ve had. :-)

[CynicalBear]

Thanks for conformation. Sometimes we wonder if our efforts here are bearing fruit but we press on with faith that God’s word will not return void. If we “search the scriptures daily” with prayer for guidance from the Holy Spirit the answers are given. Sometimes later than we would like but God knows best.