POPE’S CRACKDOWN ON ORDER ALARMS TRADITIONALISTS

ABC News ^ | December 14, 2013 | NICOLE WINFIELD

[ebb tide]

Pope Francis may have been named Time magazine's Person of the Year, but he has come under scathing criticism from a growing number of traditionalist Catholics for cracking down on a religious order that celebrates the old Latin Mass. The case has become a flashpoint in the ideological tug-of-war going on in the Catholic Church over Francis' revolutionary agenda, which has thrilled progressives and alarmed some conservatives. The matter concerns the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate, a small but growing order of several hundred priests, seminarians and nuns that was founded in Italy in 1990 as an offshoot of the larger Franciscan order of the pope's namesake, St. Francis of Assisi.

[Shugee]

Pope Francis is a Jesuit - actually the first Jesuit pope. Jesuits are known for being rather renegade free thinkers and liberal in their approach and interpretation of the Church's teachings. A mass offered by a Jesuit-run parish will often look much less traditional than a typical Catholic mass.

I'm not surprised by anything this pope has done - he seems true his roots and his order. When he was chosen, I was more stunned that he was a Jesuit than that he was from South America. I knew we were in for a ride, for better or worse, though he's a likable man who connects with the people and for that I am grateful. He's definitely shaking things up like Pope John XXIII did during his too short reign.

[faucetman]

As long as the Mass is also translated to the local language or everyone in the church speaks Latin.
NIV
1 Corinthians 14:19 But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue.

New Living Translation
But in a church meeting I would rather speak five understandable words to help others than ten thousand words in an unknown language.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
yet in the church I would rather speak five words with my understanding, in order to teach others also, than 10,000 words in another language.

International Standard Version
But in church I would rather speak five words with my mind to instruct others than 10,000 words in a foreign language.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
But in the church I would rather speak five words with my understanding, that I may instruct others also, than 10,000 words in languages.

GOD’S WORD® Translation
Yet, in order to teach others in church, I would rather say five words that can be understood than ten thousand words in another language.

World English Bible
However in the assembly I would rather speak five words with my understanding, that I might instruct others also, than ten thousand words in another language

[Salvation]

I doubt it. The article is from lamestream media ABC.

[DannyTN]

As a Southern Baptist, I think services should be in the common tongue of the people the services are for. How are you going to win people for Christ if the services are in Latin and the unsaved don't speak latin?

When Paul preached in Acts 2:8 everyone understood him in their own tongue. That was accomplished by the Holy Spirit, but the point was that people needed to understand what was being said. The Holy Spirit accomplished this.

The following verses on the practice of speaking in tongues is instructive. Speaking in a tongue that men do not understand is of no benefit to the men being talked to unless someone interprets. That's true whether the tongue is latin or some kind of angelic tongue or any other "unknown" tongue.

1Cr 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. 1Cr 14:3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort. 1Cr 14:4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church. 1Cr 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

[laplata]

You’re right.

I hope the Media gets what they deserve for what they’ve done.

[NKP_Vet]

Old news. The Franciscans wanted the Old Mass performed and nothing else. That’s why the Church cracked down on them. It was a disciplinary measure.

The Old Mass is still being performed all over the world, especially at the Vatican.

http://www.traditionalcatholicpriest.com/2013/06/30/how-to-offer-the-traditional-tridentine-mass-in-vatican/

[namvolunteer]

The Pope was kidnapped. An imposter reigns. It’s as if Soros managed it. Popes don’t resign. He was given an offer he couldn’t refuse. “It would really be too bad if something really bad happened, you know, like Pope John Paul I. Capiche?”

[Cronos]

from what I understand, this article is a sham:

This group is not part of the Franciscan Order, they are an Institute. Since they are an institute, which requested to be a Papal Institute instead of its status as a Diocesan Institute, the yagreed to be under the complete authority of the Pontiff should a "question" arise such as this one

Since they are an institute and take a vow of obedience, the people waiting to be ordained must agree to abide by the Church rules

[Wyrd bið ful aræd]

Common misconception. In extremely limited cases, under extremely limited circumstances, The Holy Spirit will ensure that certain teachings regarding faith and morals are unerring.

Other than that, the pope is as fallible as the next guy, as Francis so eloquently displays on a near daily basis.

[Cronos]

Well,there is "something" -- read my post above. But the mainstream media, as we expect, distorts anything to foment discord among Christians.

If abc reports something about the Pope, I either dont' read it, or read it with a bucket of salt...

[laplata]

Thanks, Cronos.

[Cronos]

well, it’s not as simple as just the language. The “Latin mass” besides being in Latin :) also had other aspects, such as the priest spent much of the mass turned away from the people. The basic content is the same of course.

[right way right]

All I will say as a Protestant is that ABC only has evil intentions is all this just the same as TIM does.
They want this Pope to fit their adgenda.To be their Saviour to
proclaim their salvation by reaffirming there perverted hearts.
Jesus had very simular difficultys except he knew what to say.
I guess It helps to actually be God.
I pray for the Pope.

[If You Want It Fixed - Fix It]

Anything the media says about Francis is wrong!!!!

Move on.

[Jimmy Valentine]

He would do much better getting the Jesuits under control

[Biggirl]

AMEN.

This BASHING of each other, as Christians and as Catholics is just PLAIN WRONG.

Are there not different rites in the RCC? I consider TLM to be a rite in the RCC.

[Biggirl]

Thankfully that was DONE under Blessed John Paul II. The Jesuits have since been cleaned up.

[Biggirl]

Thank-you and God Bless.

[trebb]

I strongly support the Latin mass, for the record, and see only good coming from it.

[vladimir998]

Hand missals contain the Mass in the local language. The benefit of having the Mass in Latin is that you would be able to travel anywhere in the world and still understand the Mass.