Posted on 12/15/2013 9:14:52 AM PST by NYer
It’s wonderful to see you too, trisham!
Merry Christmas - the kind the Pope means.
I really, really like Pope Francis and it amazes me how people misunderstand what he says. It’s clear to me.
:-)
Thank you, friend. :)
He wasn’t taken out of context and he’s not a Marxist. He’s the Pope (as was said upthread). The job of Pope is to lead people in the faith, not devise the best economic system.
It’s become clear to me now his economic ideas and mine differ, and that’s ok. The charism of infallibility has absolutely nothing to do with economics. A Pope can be wrong about anything he says really (even matters of faith and morals); the charism must be clarified and stated in a very specific way to be applied to any statement he makes. This is why many do not believe “ex cathedra” has been witnessed very often in the history of the Church.
So, now, all we (anyone) has here to disagree, or lambaste if that is one’s desire, the Pope with is his apparent affection for some people who are Marxists.
Big whoop. Again, he’s the Pope. He can’t show affection for people he knows personally who are Marxist, when taking about Marxism?
Maybe he’s friends with such people because he’s trying to share his witness of Christ with them. Anyone here think of that possibility?
After all, Christ associated with the sick too, not the healthy.
Can we (FR) move on now? Or are we going to try to continue to look for a Papal Marxist Boogyman in every interview/exhortation/encyclical he offers?
Keep on ignoring that direct statement he made while repeating trash.
People recognize that approach as SOP for propagandists who believe that if they repeat a lie often enough people will accept as fact.
Um, hmmm. maybe from this DIRECT QUOTE FROM THE ARTICLE: I have met many Marxists in my life who are good people, so I don’t feel offended.”
……..apologies accepted anytime…...
Then DO clear it up for us won’t you…… I keep hearing OUT of context, but no one says what is IN context…..so please….SOME CONTEXT!!!!
This does not matter….whether or not they are sincere in their marxists beliefs…..they are not good, period….idealist or not. Just because someone is an idealist does not make them good….
I hope they will wake up too….but this slumber they are in is no excuse.
He is the one who made comments about his economic beliefs, and did so as Pope…and now our Marxist President has glomed onto those comments as his talking points. I’m sorry, but that horse done left the barn. I wish he’d never said any of this, but he did, and it’s out there, and it’s now fodder for the Obama spin machine on income inequality and all of the rest of the redistributionist program. Sorry, that’s a fact.
BUT No, he’s not a marxist for sure, but he has bought into some marxist ideas about free markets and free enterprise. I don’t think anyone said anything more than that, and I do not think that is possibly out of context. He really does think free enterprise is all about greed, and must be regulated by some kind of angels of power, I presume government. There’s a name for that, and it ain’t free enterprise…….
There are many people, even right here on FR, that used to be leftists. But they woke up. It happens more often than you might think.
Marxism doesn’t really prey on good intentions. It preys on envy and rage. In order to fall for the demonic lie that Marxism is, you must be consumed by one, the other or both.
Marxism and goodness are mutually exclusive. One cannot not be a “good person”, in any meaningful sense of the term, and be a self-identified Marxist.
I agree with that….but again off topic a bit….becaue while someone is a marxist…they are NOT GOOD, PERIOD. Now, they may become good as you say….and they may think they are good now while still a marxist…and they may be ‘nice’ or ‘pleasant’ - but if they are a marxist, they simply are not good.
Marxism is evil. Period.
Well stated.
I heard a nice song, used to have it on a home made tape, sort of a talking song.
It went something like this, but with sung refrains.
Once there was a king, who wanted to find out if there was a truly good man in his kingdom. So he sent his servant out to find a really good man.
The servant went to the churches, the schools, the monasteries - looking for a really good man. He searched and searched.
Finally he came back to the king, and said, My lord, I cannot find a truly good man. Every man had some bad in his heart.
So the king asked another servant - to find a truly bad man.
The servant searched through the prisons, the hospitals, the streets - and could not find a truly bad man. He told the king - even the worst man had a little good in him.
The moral of this story, the moral of this song, is the good man finds the good in all, and the bad man finds only the wrong.
Amen! I like that.
I think Pope Francis is like the second servant.
It’s not a question of whether the Marxist has any good in him. It’s whether he can reasonably be considered a “good person” while actively promoting something as perfectly evil and murderous as Marxism has proven to be.
Take Bergoglio’s comments and replace the word “Marxist” with “Nazi”. Are we having a different conversation? If so, why?
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
He's clearly weighing in on economic matters AS IF HE BELIEVES IN A SOMEWHAT STATIST, QUASI-MARXIST POSITION.......
How do you not see that in what he has said? Please describe to us what it is we are misunderstanding since, as you say, "it's clear to me".
Since I cannot read the Pope’s mind, nor do I personally know the people he considers “good” despite being Marxist, I cannot really discuss this any more with any weight (nor, IMHO, can any one else).
For all we know, the “Marxists” he said were good people, are not hardcore communists but dabblers, coffee table theorists, who the heck knows. I don’t know, you don’t know.
So...
The good man sees the good in all, the bad man sees only the wrong. I think the Pope is a good man and wants to see some good in everyone.
Note my comment above.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.