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Pope says he is not a "Marxist" and it is not time to start "clericalizing" women
Vatican Insider ^ | December 14, 2013 | ANDREA TORNIELLI

Posted on 12/15/2013 9:14:52 AM PST by NYer

In this exclusive interview, Pope Francis speaks about Christmas, hunger in the world, the suffering of children, the reform of the Roman Curia, women cardinals, the Institute for the Works of Religion (IOR), and the upcoming visit to the Holy Land.


“For me Christmas is hope and tenderness...”. Francis talks to “La Stampa” and “Vatican Insider” about his first Christmas as Bishop of Rome. We’re in Casa Santa Marta in the Vatican; it’s 12:50 in the afternoon on Tuesday 10 December. The Pope receives us in a room next to the dining hall. The meeting lasts an hour and a half. Twice during the course of the interview, the peaceful look which the whole world has grown accustomed to seeing on Francis’ face fades away when he talks about the innocent suffering of children and the tragedy of hunger in the world.

During the interview the Pope also speaks about relations with other Christian denominations and about the “ecumenism of blood” which unites them in persecution, he touches on the issue of the family to be addressed at the next Synod, responds to those in the USA who criticised him and called him “a Marxist” and discusses the relationship between Church and politics.


What does Christmas mean for you?

“It is the encounter Jesus. God has always sought out his people, led them, looked after them and promised to be always be close to them. The Book of Deuteronomy says that God walks with us; he takes us by the hand like a father does with his child. This is a beautiful thing. Christmas is God’s meeting with his people. It is also a consolation, a mystery of consolation. Many times after the midnight mass I have spent an hour or so alone in the chapel before celebrating the dawn mass. I experienced a profound feeling of consolation and peace. I remember one night of prayer after a mass in the Astalli residence for refugees in Rome, it was Christmas 1974 I think. For me Christmas has always been about this; contemplating the visit of God to his people.”



What does Christmas say to people today?

“It speaks of tenderness and hope. When God meets us he tells us two things. The first thing he says is: have hope. God always opens doors, he never closes them. He is the father who opens doors for us. The second thing he says is: don’t be afraid of tenderness. When Christians forget about hope and tenderness they become a cold Church, that loses its sense of direction and is held back by ideologies and worldly attitudes, whereas God’s simplicity tells you: go forward, I am a Father who caresses you. I become fearful when Christians lose hope and the ability to embrace and extend a loving caress to others. Maybe this is why, looking towards the future, I often speak about children and the elderly, about the most defenceless that is. Throughout my life as a priest, going to  the parish, I have always sought to transmit this tenderness, particularly to children and the elderly. It does me good and it makes me think of the tenderness God has towards us.”


How is it possible to believe that God, who is considered by religions to be infinite and all-powerful, can make Himself so small?


“The Greek Fathers called it syncatabasis, divine condescension that is: God coming down to be with us. It is one of God’s mysteries. Back in 2000, in Bethlehem, John Paul II said God became a child who was entirely dependent on the care of a father and mother. This is why Christmas gives us so much joy. We don’t feel alone any more; God has come down to be with us. Jesus became one of us and suffered the worst death for us, that of a criminal on the Cross.”


Christmas is often presented as a sugar-coated fairy tale. But God is born into a world where there is also a great deal of suffering and misery.

“The message announced to us in the Gospels is a message of joy. The evangelists described a joyful event to us. They do not discuss about  the unjust world and how God could be born into such a world. All this is the fruit of our own contemplations: the poor, the child that is born into a precarious situation. The (first) Christmas was not a condemnation of social injustice and poverty; it was an announcement of joy. Everything else are conclusions that we draw. Some are correct, others are less so and others still are ideologized. Christmas is joy, religious joy, God’s joy, an inner joy of light and peace. When you are unable or in a human situation that does not allow you to comprehend this joy, then one experiences this feast with a worldly joyfulness. But there is a difference between profound joy and worldly joyfulness.”


This is your first Christmas in a world marked by conflict and war...


“God never gives someone a gift they are not capable of receiving. If he gives us the gift of Christmas, it is because we all have the ability to understand and receive it. All of us from the holiest of saints to the greatest of sinners; from the purest to the most corrupt among us. Even a corrupt person has this ability: poor him, it’s probably a bit rusty but he has it. Christmas in this time of conflicts is a call from God who gives us this gift. Do we want to receive Him or do we prefer other gifts? In a world afflicted by war, this Christmas makes me think of God’s patience. The Bible clearly shows that God’s main virtue is that He is love. He waits for us; he never tires of waiting for us. He gives us the gift and then waits for us. This happens in the life of each and every one of us. There are those who ignore him. But God is patient and the peace and serenity of Christmas Eve is a reflection of God’s patience toward us.


This coming January marks the 50th anniversary of Paul VI’s historic visit to the Holy Land. Will you go?

“Christmas always makes us think of Bethlehem, and Bethlehem is a precise point in the Holy Land where Jesus lived. On Christmas night, I think above all with the Christians who live there, of those who are in difficulty, of the many people who have had to leave that land because of various problems. But Bethlehem is still Bethlehem. God arrived at a specific time in a specific land; that is where God’s tenderness and grace appeared. We cannot think of Christmas without thinking of the Holy land. Fifty years ago, Paul VI had the courage to go out and go there and this marked the beginning of the era of papal journeys. I would also like to go there, to meet my brother Bartholomew, the Patriarch of Constantinople, and commemorate this 50th anniversary with him, renewing that embrace which took place between Pope Montini and Athenagoras in Jerusalem, in 1964. We are preparing for this.”


You have met with seriously ill children on more than one occasion. What do you have to say about this innocent suffering?

“One man who has been a life mentor for me is Dostoevskij and his explicit and implicit question “Why do children suffer?” has always gone round in my heart. There is no explanation. This image comes to mind: at a particular point of his or her life, a child “wakes up”, doesn’t understand much and feels threatened, he or she starts asking their mum or dad questions. This is the “why” age. But when the child asks a question, he or she doesn’t wait to hear the full answer, they immediately start bombarding you with more “whys”. What they are really looking for, more than an explanation, is a reassuring look on their parent’s face. When I come across a suffering child, the only prayer that comes to mind is the “why” prayer. Why Lord? He doesn’t explain anything to me. But I can feel Him looking at me. So I can say: You know why, I don’t and You won’t tell me, but You’re looking at me and I trust You, Lord, I trust your gaze.”


Speaking of children’s suffering, we can’t forget the tragedy of those who are suffering from hunger

“With all the food that is left over and thrown away we could feed so many. If we were able to stop wasting and start recycling food, world hunger would diminish greatly. I was struck by one statistic, which says ten thousand children die of hunger each day across the world. There are so many children that cry because they are hungry. At the Wednesday General Audience the other day there was a young mother behind one of the barriers with a baby that was just a few month s old. The child was crying its eyes out as I came past. The mother was caressing it. I said to her: madam, I think the child’s hungry. “Yes, it’s probably time…” she replied. “Please give it something to eat!” I said. She was shy and didn’t want to breastfeed in public, while the Pope was passing. I wish to say the same to humanity: give people something to eat! That woman had milk to give to her child; we have enough food in the world to feed everyone. If we work with humanitarian organisations and are able to agree all together not to waste food, sending it instead to those who need it, we could do so much to help solve the problem of hunger in the world. I would like to repeat to humanity what I said to that mother: give food to those who are hungry! May the hope and tenderness of the Christmas of the Lord shake off our indifference.”



Some of the passages in the “Evangelii Gaudium” attracted the criticism of ultraconservatives in the USA. As a Pope, what does it feel like to be called a “Marxist”?

“The Marxist ideology is wrong. But I have met many Marxists in my life who are good people, so I don’t feel offended.”


The most striking part of the Exhortation was where it refers to an economy that “kills”…

“There is nothing in the Exhortation that cannot be found in the social Doctrine of the Church. I wasn’t speaking from a technical point of view, what I was trying to do was to give a picture of what is going on. The only specific quote I used was the one regarding the “trickle-down theories” which assume that economic growth, encouraged by a free market, will inevitably succeed in bringing about greater justice and social inclusiveness in the world. The promise was that when the glass was full, it would overflow, benefitting the poor. But what happens instead, is that when the glass is full, it magically gets bigger nothing ever comes out for the poor. This was the only reference to a specific theory. I was not, I repeat, speaking from a technical point of view but according to the Church’s social doctrine. This does not mean being a Marxist.”



You announced a “conversion of the papacy”. Did a specific path emerge from your meetings with the Orthodox Patriarchs?

“John Paul II spoke even more explicitly about a way of exercising the primacy which is open to a new situation. Not just from the point of view of ecumenical relations but also in terms of relations with the Curia and the local Churches. Over the course of these first nine months, I have received visits from many Orthodox brothers: Bartholomew, Hilarion, the theologian Zizioulas, the Copt Tawadros. The latter is a mystic, he would enter the chapel, remove his shoes and go and pray. I felt like their brother. They have the apostolic succession; I received them as brother bishops. It is painful that we are not yet able to celebrate the Eucharist together, but there is friendship. I believe that the way forward is this: friendship, common work and prayer for unity. We blessed each other; one brother blesses the other, one brother is called Peter and the other Andrew, Mark, Thomas…”.


Is Christian unity a priority for you?


“Yes, for me ecumenism is a priority. Today there is an ecumenism of blood. In some countries they kill Christians for wearing a cross or having a Bible and before they kill them they do not ask them whether they are Anglican, Lutheran, Catholic or Orthodox. Their blood is mixed. To those who kill we are Christians. We are united in blood, even though we have not yet managed to take necessary steps towards unity between us and perhaps the time has not yet come. Unity is a gift that we need to ask for. I knew a parish priest in Hamburg who was dealing with the beatification cause of a Catholic priest guillotined by the Nazis for teaching children the catechism.  After him, in the list of condemned individuals, was a Lutheran pastor who was killed for the same reason. Their blood was mixed. The parish priest told me he had gone to the bishop and said to him: “I will continue to deal with the cause, but both of their causes, not just the Catholic priest’s.” This is what ecumenism of blood is. It still exists today; you just need to read the newspapers. Those who kill Christians don’t ask for your identity card to see which Church you were baptised in. We need to take these facts into consideration.”


In the Apostolic Exhortation you called for prudent and bold pastoral choices regarding the sacraments. What were you referring to?

“When I speak of prudence I do not think of it in terms of an attitude that paralyses but as the virtue of a leader. Prudence is a virtue of government. So is boldness.  One must govern with boldness and prudence. I spoke about baptism and communion as spiritual food that helps one to go on; it is to be considered a remedy not a prize. Some immediately thought about  the sacraments for remarried divorcees, but I did not refer to any specific cases; I simply wanted to point out a principle. We must try to facilitate people’s faith, rather than control it. Last year in Argentina I condemned the attitude of some priests who did not baptise the children of unmarried mothers. This is a sick mentality.”


And what about remarried divorcees?

“The exclusion of divorced people who contract a second marriage from communion is not a sanction. It is important to remember this. But I didn’t talk about this in the Exhortation.”


Will this issue be dealt with at the next Synod of Bishops?


“The synodality of the Church is important: we will discuss marriage as a whole at the Consistory meetings in February. The issues will also be addressed at the Extraordinary Synod in October 2014 and again at the Ordinary Synod the following year. Many elements will be examined in more detail and clarified during these sessions.”

How is the work of your eight “advisors” on Curia reform proceeding?

“There’s a lot of work to do. Those who wanted to make proposals or send ideas have done so. Cardinal Bertello has gathered the views of all Vatican dicasteries. We received suggestions from bishops all around the world. At the last meeting, the eight cardinals told me the time has come for concrete proposals and at the next meeting in February they will present their suggestions to me. I am always present at the meetings, except for Wednesday mornings when I have the General Audience. But I don’t speak, I just listen and that does me good. A few months ago, an elderly cardinal said to me: “You have already started Curia reform with your daily masses in St. Martha’s House.” This made me think: reform always begins with spiritual and pastoral initiatives before structural changes.”


What is the right relationship between the Church and politics?

“The relationship needs to be parallel and convergent at the same time. Parallel because each of us has his or her own path to take and his or her different tasks. Convergent only in helping others. When relationships converge first, without the people, or without taking the people into account, that is when the bond with political power is formed, leading the Church to rot: business, compromises… The relationship needs to proceed in a parallel way, each with its own method, tasks and vocation, converging only in the common good. Politics is noble; it is one of the highest forms of charity, as Paul VI used to say. We sully it when we mix it with business. The relationship between the Church and political power can also be corrupted if common good is not the only converging point.”


May I ask you if the Church will have women cardinals in the future?


“I don’t know where this idea sprang from. Women in the Church must be valued not “clericalised”. Whoever thinks of women as cardinals suffers a bit from clericalism.”


How is the Institute for the Works of Religion(IOR) clean-up operation going?

“The commissions for reference are making good progress. Moneyval has given us a positive report and we are on the right path. As regards the future of the IOR, we will see. The Vatican “central bank” for example is meant to be APSA (The Administration for the Patrimony of the Holy See). The IOR was established to help with works of religion, missions and the poor Churches. Then it became what it is now.”

Could you have imagined a year ago that you would be celebrating Christmas 2013 in St. Peter’s?


“Absolutely not”.


Were you expecting to be elected?


“No I didn’t expect it. I never lost my peace as the number of votes increased. I remained calm. And that peace is still there, I consider it a gift from the Lord. When the final scrutiny was over, I was taken to the centre of the Sistine Chapel and asked if I accepted. I said I did and that I had chosen the name Francis. Only then did I walk away. I was taken to the next room to change (my cassock). Then, just before I made my public appearance, I knelt down to pray for some minutes in the Pauline chapel along with cardinals Vallini and Hummes.”


TOPICS: Catholic; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: popefrancis; romancatholicism; yeshesamarxist
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1 posted on 12/15/2013 9:14:52 AM PST by NYer
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To: Tax-chick; GregB; Berlin_Freeper; SumProVita; narses; bboop; SevenofNine; Ronaldus Magnus; tiki; ...

Ping!


2 posted on 12/15/2013 9:15:16 AM PST by NYer ("The wise man is the one who can save his soul. - St. Nimatullah Al-Hardini)
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To: NYer

It has repeatedly become clear...

1 either El Joffe has no real idea what Marxist economics are, or
2 the Vatican is absolutely lousy at communication.


3 posted on 12/15/2013 9:17:15 AM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (I grew up in America. I now live in the United States..)
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To: NYer

I believe him. But there are definitely Marxists with access to the Vatican word processors.


4 posted on 12/15/2013 9:19:28 AM PST by DManA
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To: NYer

Jesus is about the story of a man foretold. Why would we revise history and make him a woman. If people do not like the story, they can find their own story, and not make everything gay. And Catholic is catholic. Any other change, for better or for worth, from a plagiarized bastardized version of the Cathechism and its dispension is of another religion. Being priest is not being a government bureaucrat robot without gender.


5 posted on 12/15/2013 9:19:47 AM PST by lavaroise
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To: NYer

But…he insists he’s met many Marxists who are “good people.”

How does that work exactly? What is a good Marxist? WHO is a good Marxist? I think some names are in order here.


6 posted on 12/15/2013 9:20:44 AM PST by C. Edmund Wright (Tokyo Rove is more than a name, it's a GREAT WEBSITE)
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To: NYer
I've never understood why Leftists who aren't Catholics have such a problem with the Catholic Church not ordaining women as priests. Given that I'm not Catholic, the Pope could say that only left-handed Lithuanians could be priests for all I care. Since I'm not a member, why could it possibly matter to me?
7 posted on 12/15/2013 9:26:07 AM PST by Kip Russell (Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors -- and miss. ---Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: NYer
I wish I could say what I wanted to...

But I won't.

8 posted on 12/15/2013 9:27:25 AM PST by real saxophonist (The revolution will not be televised. Everything else will.)
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To: Kip Russell

Because leftists are by nature busy body control freaks……..in pursuit of their fantasized utopia…..


9 posted on 12/15/2013 9:27:31 AM PST by C. Edmund Wright (Tokyo Rove is more than a name, it's a GREAT WEBSITE)
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To: C. Edmund Wright
Because leftists are by nature busy body control freaks……..in pursuit of their fantasized utopia…..

“Political tags — such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth — are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire. The former are idealists acting from highest motives for the greatest good of the greatest number. The latter are surly curmudgeons, suspicious and lacking in altruism. But they are more comfortable neighbors than the other sort.”

― Robert A. Heinlein

10 posted on 12/15/2013 9:28:21 AM PST by Kip Russell (Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors -- and miss. ---Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: Kip Russell
The former are idealists acting from highest motives for the greatest good of the greatest number.

So, do you really buy this notion of leftists? Really?

11 posted on 12/15/2013 9:30:12 AM PST by C. Edmund Wright (Tokyo Rove is more than a name, it's a GREAT WEBSITE)
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To: NYer

Bookmark!


12 posted on 12/15/2013 9:32:05 AM PST by Servant of the Cross (the Truth will set you free)
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To: Kip Russell

Speaking as a Protestant who’s a layman in a denomination that ordains men only(PCA), the reason why leftists want the RCC(and any other religious entity) to ordain females is that they’re totalitarian “do-gooders” who are so “correct”, they have a “human right” in their mindset to enforce their views on everyone.

C.S. Lewis’ quote describes leftists to a T:

“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”


13 posted on 12/15/2013 9:32:55 AM PST by ReformationFan
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To: NYer
Anti-Catholicism

Anti-Catholicism in the United States

How to confront anti-Catholicism

14 posted on 12/15/2013 9:44:33 AM PST by Berlin_Freeper (Obamacare - Get used to dying.)
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To: NYer

This should calm down the traditionists very fast.


15 posted on 12/15/2013 9:53:11 AM PST by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: C. Edmund Wright
What is a good Marxist?

I could answer your question, but my answer would get me banned.

16 posted on 12/15/2013 9:54:38 AM PST by Hardastarboard (The question of our age is whether a majority of Americans can and will vote us all into slavery.)
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To: miele man

later read


17 posted on 12/15/2013 9:55:01 AM PST by miele man
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To: C. Edmund Wright
So, do you really buy this notion of leftists? Really?

I believe you're mis-reading the quote. Heinlein is pointing out that people of any political stripe who wish to control others might well believe that they're doing good for society as a whole, but that the results are very uncomfortable when they start controlling you.

18 posted on 12/15/2013 9:59:38 AM PST by Kip Russell (Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors -- and miss. ---Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: Kip Russell
Heinlein is pointing out that people of any political stripe who wish to control others might well believe that they're doing good for society as a whole, but that the results are very uncomfortable when they start controlling you

But that's a false argument…..people of "any polticial stripe" do not wish to control others - that is almost, not totally, but almost confined only to the liberal statist. And I'm ready for your anticipated response too……but I stand by my point here….and I think Heinlein is wrong, even while being pithy.

19 posted on 12/15/2013 10:02:06 AM PST by C. Edmund Wright (Tokyo Rove is more than a name, it's a GREAT WEBSITE)
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To: NYer

Uh-oh another interview.

Can’t wait to read it all......


20 posted on 12/15/2013 10:06:49 AM PST by piusv
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To: NYer

21 posted on 12/15/2013 10:08:15 AM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: piusv
I didn't have to go far:

During the interview the Pope also speaks about relations with other Christian denominations and about the “ecumenism of blood” which unites them in persecution

Um, wut? Some more false ecumenism. Francis needs to read Mortalium Animos and Cantate Domino.

22 posted on 12/15/2013 10:10:16 AM PST by piusv
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To: NYer
This one fact should not escape anyone. The leftist media spends most of its time trying to find holes in which to dig and implant doubt into the minds of the faithful and unfaithful alike.

La Stampa and the American Lamestream Media probably have staff rooms set up into which they have daily meetings where they decide what sentence or phrasing used by the Pope they will exploit this week.

John Paul II always gave speeches during his Wednesday audiences that would be printed up and I would read by Friday. I read most of them throughout his papacy. So, I feel as though I was in an excellent position to know what he was really saying and how badly the media worked to pervert what he was saying.

They are doing the exact same thing right now with this Pope.

23 posted on 12/15/2013 10:15:45 AM PST by Slyfox (Satan's goal is to rub out the image of God he sees in the face of every human.)
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To: NYer

Well he says he isn’t a Capitalist...so then he’s socialist, Marxist or some other economical-whacko group. Too bad he can’t stick to being a Christian...you would think that would be enough for a Pope.


24 posted on 12/15/2013 10:19:57 AM PST by ThePatriotsFlag (...and to the Republic for which it stood.)
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To: Slyfox

Yes, it’s always the media.

Please just stop insulting many of us.


25 posted on 12/15/2013 10:20:11 AM PST by piusv
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To: NYer
Marxists in my life who are good people,

Were they already dead? The only 'good' Marxist.

26 posted on 12/15/2013 10:22:11 AM PST by xone
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To: NYer

Methinks he doth protest too much.


27 posted on 12/15/2013 10:34:07 AM PST by Flintlock ( islam is a LIE, mohammed was a CRIMINAL, shira is POISON.)
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To: C. Edmund Wright

Personally, as a traditional Catholic this doesn’t bother me as much as his apparent contradictions with Traditional Catholic teaching. I believe to answer your question though, a “good” Marxist to Francis is probably a person, who though not Catholic, follows his conscience. So all’s good.

YWIA.


28 posted on 12/15/2013 10:45:41 AM PST by piusv
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To: C. Edmund Wright; Kip Russell

A strong force of controlling others, I detect in you grasshopper.


29 posted on 12/15/2013 10:49:34 AM PST by Paladin2
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To: C. Edmund Wright
How does that work exactly? What is a good Marxist? WHO is a good Marxist? I think some names are in order here.

Groucho, Harpo, Zippo and Karl, {not in your request for order}.


30 posted on 12/15/2013 10:49:51 AM PST by USS Alaska (If I could...I would.)
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To: Paladin2

You need to adjust your detector, and your reading comp…..


31 posted on 12/15/2013 10:51:13 AM PST by C. Edmund Wright (Tokyo Rove is more than a name, it's a GREAT WEBSITE)
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To: C. Edmund Wright

Well, we’re always hearing what a nice guy Bob Beckel is.


32 posted on 12/15/2013 10:52:34 AM PST by Viennacon
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To: piusv
I believe to answer your question though, a “good” Marxist to Francis is probably a person, who though not Catholic, follows his conscience. So all’s good.

So let me get this straight…if a person's conscience leads him to believe in something immoral, unworkable, and evil like Marxism, it's okay as long as it was reached through his conscience? Sorry, I do not agree……that only indicates a flawed conscience….or perhaps a lack of understanding of what Marxism is and who Marxists are.

33 posted on 12/15/2013 10:53:53 AM PST by C. Edmund Wright (Tokyo Rove is more than a name, it's a GREAT WEBSITE)
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To: USS Alaska
Groucho, Harpo, Zippo and Karl,

Zeppo.

34 posted on 12/15/2013 10:54:44 AM PST by Kip Russell (Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors -- and miss. ---Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: Kip Russell

I’ve observed this as well. In a recent radio show I listened to, some British people who were clearly atheists were saying how they wanted the Anglican church to have women priests. It’s just the control-freak mentality.


35 posted on 12/15/2013 10:55:03 AM PST by Viennacon
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To: USS Alaska

Nicely played!!! :)


36 posted on 12/15/2013 10:55:31 AM PST by C. Edmund Wright (Tokyo Rove is more than a name, it's a GREAT WEBSITE)
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To: Viennacon
I’ve observed this as well. In a recent radio show I listened to, some British people who were clearly atheists were saying how they wanted the Anglican church to have women priests. It’s just the control-freak mentality.

Exactly. I'm an atheist myself, and I couldn't care less what doctrines the Catholic (or any other) Church has, as long as those doctrines don't intervene in the affairs of non-members.

37 posted on 12/15/2013 10:59:19 AM PST by Kip Russell (Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors -- and miss. ---Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: NYer

Bump.


38 posted on 12/15/2013 11:06:44 AM PST by GonzoII (Ted Cruz/Susana Martinez 2016)
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To: ThePatriotsFlag

Catholic church doctrine is to reject socialism and lassiez faire capitalism. The position has been called distributism, most famously by G.K. Chesterton (The Man Who Was Thursday, Father Brown stories) and Hilaire Belloc (The Servile State), and more recently by E.F. Schumacher (Small is Beautiful) and Kirkpatrick Sale (Human Scale).

Many conservatives would, I believe, see distributism as an authentic capitalist economic system.

I do not consider myself distributist, but I have been influenced by distributist thought.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributism


39 posted on 12/15/2013 11:10:37 AM PST by oblomov
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To: C. Edmund Wright

He knows “good Marxists”, so the label doesn’t bother him so much.

Wow.


40 posted on 12/15/2013 11:13:46 AM PST by WhistlingPastTheGraveyard (If you don't stand up, you don't stand a chance.)
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To: WhistlingPastTheGraveyard

That doesn’t do a lot to refute what Rush said, now does it…….


41 posted on 12/15/2013 11:16:59 AM PST by C. Edmund Wright (Tokyo Rove is more than a name, it's a GREAT WEBSITE)
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To: C. Edmund Wright

My little cousin describes herself as a Marxist. She is young, socially awkward, book-smart but very sheltered, naive and very little experience of the real world. Naturally, her political Outlook irritated me, but she is family and I love her. I put her down as ignorant rather than malevolent.


42 posted on 12/15/2013 11:18:03 AM PST by sinsofsolarempirefan
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To: oblomov

Which does not excuse, nor explain, how one could be so misguided as to talk about capitalism as if laissez faire exists anywhere in the world……which is exactly what happened in context.


43 posted on 12/15/2013 11:18:21 AM PST by C. Edmund Wright (Tokyo Rove is more than a name, it's a GREAT WEBSITE)
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To: oblomov

And FTR, distributism is a phony theoretical but euphimisitc way of saying command and control…..and I do reject it out of hand.


44 posted on 12/15/2013 11:19:49 AM PST by C. Edmund Wright (Tokyo Rove is more than a name, it's a GREAT WEBSITE)
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To: sinsofsolarempirefan

Wth due respect, the Pope is not talking about 8 year old kids….and you know it.

context matters….


45 posted on 12/15/2013 11:20:44 AM PST by C. Edmund Wright (Tokyo Rove is more than a name, it's a GREAT WEBSITE)
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To: C. Edmund Wright

Oh, and she is Catholic. Funny enough, all that do-gooding and elevating the poor as morally superior to the rich does seem to predispose a lot of Catholics I know to believe in leftist bollocks for some reason...


46 posted on 12/15/2013 11:21:53 AM PST by sinsofsolarempirefan
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To: C. Edmund Wright

She is 18 and has been like this since she was about 14.


47 posted on 12/15/2013 11:23:33 AM PST by sinsofsolarempirefan
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To: C. Edmund Wright

Agreed. In my experience, the giveaway that someone is a Marxist (or Marxian, if you prefer) is that they refer to the status quo system (subsidies, bailouts, anti-competitive regs, licensing requirements, etc.) as laissez faire capitalism, sometimes using the terms “neo-liberalism” or “cultural capitalism”.


48 posted on 12/15/2013 11:24:50 AM PST by oblomov
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To: C. Edmund Wright
Something like one third of Italians voted for the Communist Party.

In some parts of the country a third still vote for the successor party, and at times the post-communist party has been in the governing coalition.

So I guess what the pope is trying to say is that somebody who just happened to vote for the party isn't necessarily totally evil.

I don't know how seriously to take Francis's comment. It may just be a "some of my best friends are _____" reflex that he's using to temper and take the edge off his remarks.

49 posted on 12/15/2013 11:27:23 AM PST by x
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To: Slyfox

This one fact should not escape anyone. The leftist media spends most of its time trying to find holes in which to dig and implant doubt into the minds of the faithful and unfaithful alike.

________________________________

Bingo!

...and their inspiration for this work comes from below.


50 posted on 12/15/2013 11:27:39 AM PST by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo....Sum Pro Vita - Modified Descartes)
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