Do John Hagee or Perry Stone support Messianic Jews and/or Messianic Jewish Rabbis?

1/7/2014 | Laissez-Faire Capitalist

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

“If you cannot grasp the concept of Torah, then anything from Talmud is going be Martian to you.”

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That was from the Zohar, actually, it’s a medieval fraud that modern Jews still believe is ancient, for some reason. But, either way, so much for “not adding to the word of God!”

” I think you’re getting unnecessarily frustrated”

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Trust me, it’s only you! lol

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

“The constant is Torah, and apparently, you find THAT threatening”

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Trust me, I don’t! But, about 2,000 years of Temple-less Judaism really should!

“Do you understand why?”

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If YOU understood why, you wouldn’t keep spamming me! I don’t care what you believe! Me and the Messianic Jews will stick to the scripture. You can go read your Zohar and beat your chest and moan and complain!

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“It’s not a matter of belief. The Torah says what it says, not what you and your missionary pals make up. Facts, not beliefs.”

I thought “you didn’t want to argue theology???”

I will leave it at this. We believe the Hebrew Scriptures DO point to Jesus Christ as Messiah and Savior, in fulfillment of the Abrahamic and subsequent covenants. I understand you do not view the facts the same way. Your call and consequence.

“For people like me, who can read the original”

When you find that “original copy of Torah”, ping me. I’d like to see it!

“in scriptural Hebrew and Aramaic, you can’t begin to speak of interpretation. “

I’ve sat under professors who could do that and more. I use electricity without knowing every detail about power generation.

“you can’t begin to speak of interpretation”

Oh, sure I can. I do it all the time. We have fantastic translations of the Hebrew Scriptures.

“Whatever you have to say on the subject is of recent fabrication for the express purpose of proselytizing among unlearned Jews. IOW, purposeful manipulation and distortion.”

Your post is simply mind-reading. Again, your call and I support your right to choose to believe whatever you wish. America is a big country. There is room for those who believe Jesus Christ is Messiah and those who don’t.

I still wish you the best.

[Steve_Seattle]

"This is duplicitous fraud."

Belated reply. I do not think it is fraud unless you believe that a Jew can't - by definition - be a Christian. There are Jews who are atheists and agnostics, and if they can call themselves Jews why can't Jews who have accepted Jesus as the Messiah be called Jews? Jewish scholars such as Daniel Boyarin and Julie Galambush (a convert to Judaism) have written some excellent books on "the parting of the ways" between Judaism and Christianity, and the differences between the two belief systems in New Testament times were not nearly so vast as most people believe. The topic has been clouded by centuries of polemic on both sides.

[Piranha]

I believe that a Jew can’t — by definition — be a Christian. This has been Jewish law, or Halacha, for a long, long time. Maimonides wrote about this nearly 1,000 years ago. What you say is “clouded by centuries of polemic from both sides” is really the same thing as what others might call “well-established principle” of nearly two millenia.

[Uri’el-2012]

If one worships Jesus or through him to G-D or thinks flesh is divine or whatever, then that person is Christian and is no longer practicing Judaism. One who is a Jew and does that therefore breaks the covenant with G-D explicitly given to Moshe.

“Messianic Judaism” is just another man-made “religion” that will cease to exist when all know His name

Jesus in Hebrew is Yah'shua
as you know it means
YHvH is/be my salvation.

You are confused by all the so called "christian" religions.
They reflect a religion created in 325CE at Nicea

I know a vast number of Jews who describe
themselves as atheists or Buddhists.
They think of themselves a Jews.

Are they practicing Judaism ?

Have they broken the covenant ?

Most Reform Jews do not believe in nor trust YHvH.

Are they practicing Judaism.

Did Rabbi Gunther Plaut believe in or observe the Torah
or did he redefine Tikkun haOlam to be "social justice" ?
Read Marxism.

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach

[JewishRighter]

There is no such thing Yah’shua HaMashiach. Shame on you for making up and/or peddling this nonsense.

[Uri’el-2012]

There is no such thing Yah’shua HaMashiach. Shame on you for making up and/or peddling this nonsense.

This is a joke, yes ?

baruch HaShem

[JewishRighter]

Not a joke at all. Absolute swill. You guys just make crap up. Jews for Jesus is as real as Peter Pan. Wait. Wrong. Peter Pan actually makes sense, even if he’s not real.

[Uri’el-2012]

And on a final note, if Mashiach came, then this conversation wouldn’t exist. There wouldn’t be any debate, no need for “conversions,” or whatever man-made dogma you fling around. You’d know this if you stopped using TNK to pick and choose passages to justify some book authored by a bunch of men that comes in more than 31 flavors.

“Messianic Judaism” is an oxymoron. There is nothing Jewish about it. ,font

What is your view of Chabad-Lubavitch ?

In the late 1980s, the Rebbe called for his followers to become
involved in outreach activities with the purpose of bringing
about the Jewish Messianic Age. Statements concerning
the advancement of the Messianic age was a factor leading to the
controversy surrounding the messianic beliefs of some
members of the movement.

baruch HaShem

[Steve_Seattle]

"So apparently those Christians who turn around and call Jesus a ‘prophet,’ start following Mohammed, recite the Koran, refer to G-d as Allah, and make Haj to Mecca are still Christians according to your logic."

Quite frankly, you don't know what you are talking about, and you incorrectly describe what you call "my logic." From all of my reading, "Messianic Jews" accept Jesus as their savior in exactly the same way that Christians do. The only difference is that, as Jews, they continue to adhere to Jewish practices and observances, as did JESUS and his first disciples. Jesus himself said he did not come to abolish the (Jewish) law, and he is quoted - in the Bible - as saying he was sent to the Jews first of all.

[Steve_Seattle]

Take a sedative; read the books of Daniel Boyarin on this topic; he is a Jewish scholar who is more well-versed than either of us.

[delchiante]

Joshua the Messiah is located throughout.

Some use the Greek/Latin name Jesus... I have come to a conclusion that I speak neither Greek or Latin... and any Hebrew I know is a butchering.. I speak English... when I do say Yahshua in Hebrew, I speak of the same.. the name of the general that led the Israelites into the promised land.. the same name God gave His Son to lead us all into the eternal promised land!

The feasts are all shadows and I am so blessed to have the time to study them in Leviticus .

He is the Passover lamb, without blemish who died on Nisan 14. His body is represented by the matza, unleavened, bread. Pierced and striped...broken.... exodus 12:1-14, Isaiah 53:4-8, Isaiah 53:9, Psalm 22:16, Zechariah 12:10

But not one bone was broken... psalm 34:20, exodus 12:46...

He arrived that week on a donkey... Zechariah 9:9..

Sold for silver... Zechariah 11:12-13

His followers fled after He was struck... Zechariah 13:7

The Messiah’s blood was to be shed as sacrifice... exodus 24:8...as an atoning sacrifice - Leviticus 15:15-17

He was the coming ruler out of Jacob... Numbers 24:17

He was the coming prophet sent from God... Deuteronomy 18:17

Messiah was to be David’s son and an eternal king and a savior. 2 Samuel 7:14-16 , 1 Chronicles 17:13-14, Ezekiel 37:24-25, Jeremiah 23:5-6, 33:15-16, Isaiah 9:6-7, 11:1-2, 10, Daniel 7:13-14, 27...

Messiah would speak in parables... psalm 78:2

Messiah would be exalted in power at God’s right hand as God’s son and Lord of David.. psalm 110:1

He is the rejected stone that becomes the capstone that people will stumble over.. psalm 118:22-23,
Isaiah 8:14, 28:16, 65:2

Hearts would be closed to His message... Isaiah 6:9-10, Isaiah 53:1

Virgin birth of the messiah.. Isaiah 7:14

Born in Bethlehem.. Micah 5:2

Messiah would be called out of Egypt... Hosea 11:1

Messiah’s timetable for coming... Daniel 9:24-26...

Mighty miracles would be performed .. Isaiah 35:5-6

A forerunner in the spirit of Elijah would come first... Isaiah 40:3-5, Malachi3:1, 4:5-6...

Messiah would be a chosen servant of God ... Isaiah 42:1-4

Messiah will be a light to the Gentiles... Isaiah 49:6, Isaiah 60:1-3, 65:1, Amos 9:11-12...

A new covenant, an everlasting covenant will come through the Messiah.. Jeremiah 31:31-34, 32:40, Ezekiel 37:26

On purpose I have given no ‘new testament scripture’. These are just some of the propechies and shadows that were fulfilled by one man..

He came 2,000 years ago... and He is coming back...He is the Word and He became flesh and literally fulfilled Torah..Because He is Torah...He came and fulfilled it just as the prophets detailed, lived as they said He would.

The best shadows are in the ceremonies of His Feasts that represent Him.the observing of Torah is Him..His kingdom is forever..He is forever.. I beg you, do not stumble over Him.. He is your King! Rejoice! Halleluyah!

[Zionist Conspirator]

Unfortunately, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if they do. They do, after all, believe that J*sus is (lehavdil!) the Jewish messiah. They are also (unlike historical chrstianity) committed to the restoration of an alleged original chrstianity whose place the historical church usurped. And unlike liberals (and the historical churches), they actually believe what they claim to believe, so don't expect them not to act on it.

I have always loved and supported pro-Jewish chrstians on Free Republic, but I do not and cannot support their errors. I support them when they are right and oppose them when they are wrong. And one of the things they are wrong on is their belief in chrstianity.

Support the Jewish People because of G-d, not because of a man who lived a thousand years later. Once G-d has spoken, no one else's permission is necessary.

[Zionist Conspirator]

“Messianic Jew” is an oxymoron

Not to a Messianic Jew.

So? "Compassionate liberal" isn't an oxymoron to a "compassionate liberal" either.

Can't you dear but infuriating people ever get it through your heads that the Jews were given their religion at Sinai, that they were charged by G-d to never change it or deviate from it, and that your belief that the Torah was a mere "preparation" for a future higher revelation is an alien notion imported from outside?

You cannot "prove" the "new testament's" interpretation of the Hebrew Bible by quoting the "new testament" any more than you can prove the claims of mormonism by quoting the "book of mormon." What about this is so hard for you to understand???

The "new testament" cannot authorize itself. Neither can it simply "declare" itself authorized by the Hebrew Bible and then "prove" it by its own interpretation of the Hebrew Bible. The Torah would have had to explicitly declare itself to be temporary and preparatory from day one for chrstianity to even be possible, and this is most assuredly not what happened.

I absolutely marvel at chrstian's immunity to this simple self-evident, logical truth.