Disgraced Ex-Preacher Says There’s a Major Culture Problem in Evangelical Christianity

The Blaze ^ | Dec. 16, 2013 | Billy Hallowell

[Gene Eric]

>> I’m sick that our message did not do what we all hoped

Ah, the tenuous message of hope betrayed — imagine the despair such betrayal instills in those who give their hearts and trust.

>> Haggard said that he believes wholeheartedly in the Bible, but that Christianity has “abandoned the application of the gospel” and

Notice the placement of the quotes. Maybe it’s the author, Hallowell, that has a problem with Christianity.

[wardaddy]

What denomination are you?

When someone uses evangelical as a wide label....

Nothing personal

But it means they are likely uninformed....even though like u I distrust many TV preacher;;.

Evangical includes most baptists....half of Presbyterians.... methodists.....southern church of Christ..... all charismatics......all assemblies of God

About any Pentecostal......Lutheran Missouri synod (not the others which frankly I find many apostate)

Needless to say all these varying evangelicals I just listed...a partial list....do indeed vary a lot

As a southern Baptist.... evangelical to be sure.....we are quite different than tongue speakers and hands healers....and presbyterians.....and so forth

This broad label is usually pejorative

But really most Christian denominations spread the gospel and look to bring souls to heaven..

In other words evangelize to be born anew...

I think its usually an urban Catholic Episcopalian or Jewish outside looking in perspective on those wacky Evangelicals

I mean how many charismatics are media folks

Oddly most religion editors I see in big media are Jewish...makes for interesting but predictable musings

[RichInOC]

“What is wrong with evangelical Christianity?

“I am,
“Ted Haggard”

[DaveMSmith]

So, in your opinion, all spiritual growth ends with the death of the body? We are perfect, just as the risen Lord is perfect?

A stone cannot sin. We have the freedom, since the fall, to look downward/outward or upward/inward. That doesn't change with death of the body for if it did, our souls would perish.

I'm older and have many things to work on - many I will take to the spiritual world after I die and I'm sure more will be revealed to eternity.

[mitch5501]

I didn't think I posted an opinion.

"I'm older and have many things to work on - many I will take to the spiritual world after I die and I'm sure more will be revealed to eternity"

Nothing corrupt/corruptible/corrupting will enter God's kingdom.We need to be persuaded that He is able to keep that which we have entrusted to Him.

"Now unto Him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy..."

What we really need to work on is what Jesus said we need to work on..."This is the work of God,that ye believe on Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29)...because if we don't do "that good part which will not be taken from us" then we will end up (or remain)"careful and troubled about many things"

I'm still aspiring to the dizzying heights of an unprofitable servant myself but when it's all over it will be 'all over but the shouting' for joy!

[verga]

Not knowing if there are Roman Catholic nuances tied to that statement, on the surface, I agree

I don't know if this will make it easier to accept but Socrates said: "The unexamined life is not worth living"

No matter what your belief (or non-belief) system is, we owe it to ourselves and our loved ones to insure that we are living an upright life. The example we set will always have unintended consequences.

[ravenwolf]

Agreed.

[redgolum]

He is mad his meal ticket ended.

[ravenwolf]

and who will vow not to gossip or divulge what they hear in prayer by others in the group.

---

Matthew 6
5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

Only the father is to hear our prayer.

[DaveMSmith]

Again, you are basing your entire argument on a misunderstanding of 'corrupt':

Matt 6:19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt , and where thieves break through and steal : 20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt , and where thieves do not break through nor steal :

[ravenwolf]

2 Peter 2:4
For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Mark 12:25
For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.

I don,t think the above proves anything unless it is a continual cycle, but God does say there is nothing new under the sun.

There is so much more that we don,t know than what we do know.

[ravenwolf]

I read that verse as corruption of a natural body, which is why I believe Jesus Christ will never walk this earth again.

---

I believe that also.

[Albion Wilde]

Only the father is to hear our prayer.

So, you believe intercessory prayer for others is unnecessary or heretical? How about when the pastor leads the congregation in prayer, or prays at a wedding or funeral?

[PeterPrinciple]

What happened in his past to traumatize him was not his fault, as in the case for ALL Of us who have issues and trauma, but his responsibility was to deal with it appropriately as a Christian.

---

Maybe yes, maybe no to the first part. Most times we cause our own problems. “Sins of the fathers” for the yes and the second part of that verse for the no.

There was just too much evidence of pride in his responses. I know pride, I have a chronic (not terminal) condition of it that hasn’t been cured yet.

There is a lot of relevance to Job here but after everything that happened, Job’s response was,

Job 42:5 I had only heard about You before, but now I have seen You with my own eyes.

This “leader” still thinks it is about him and I will trust that God is at work still beating it out of him. But I can comment (judge) on what I observe.

Of course we have to remember this is being filtered through the author and we are not getting the whole truth. The headline gives us a clue to the agenda.

[metmom]

I'm older and have many things to work on - many I will take to the spiritual world after I die and I'm sure more will be revealed to eternity.

Wrong.

1 John 3:1-2 See what kind of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are. The reason why the world does not know us is that it did not know him. Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is.

[metmom]

So, you believe intercessory prayer for others is unnecessary or heretical? How about when the pastor leads the congregation in prayer, or prays at a wedding or funeral?

If the person is praying to God, God will hear him. It's irrelevant whether the prayer is for someone else or yourself.

[Albion Wilde]

I think you may be missing the point of what I've been trying to illustrate. I'm talking about small groups where people do participate in group prayer, "for where two or three are gathered together unto my name, there am I in the midst of them." Sometimes a member will ask for prayers for someone with a specific issue, such as a teenager with a drug problem. What you do not want in a small group is to hear this request repeated as gossip in the larger community because one person trusted the others in the small group to hear a heartfelt request for prayer.

I agree, that God hears our earnest prayers in private. But I also believe that intercessory prayer helps many people, both the person prayed for and the persons doing the praying. Are you sure you have been addressing what I have described above?

[Drawsing]

He still seems to think of himself as a victim and not as a redeemed sinner. He uses the phrase “apply the gospel” and “fix the problem”.

Dear Mr. Haggard, you, and everyone else are sinners and will remain so until Jesus returns. The problem will never be “fixed” in this fallen world, but with the Spirit’s help, you can live a life of repentance, living in acknowledgement of what Jesus has done for you on the cross.

[metmom]

Yeah, I guess I did miss what you were getting at.

Sorry about that.

[metmom]

Only the father is to hear our prayer.

Hello. Jesus prayed in public, in front of other people.

Matthew 11:25-26

Luke 23:34

John 11:41-42

John 12:27-28

John 17:1-26