Posted on 01/22/2014 9:30:46 AM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
Come on you did not address the question:) What events came “between the ministry of Yeshua on earth and the execution of the Great Commission by the disciples? Without determining this question our hermeneutic is flawed and the fullness of the Gospels not realized.
“That is the matchless grace of our Creator. Praise His holy name!”
Yes indeed.
I guess I’m confused about exactly what you’re looking for.
I don’t think there’s any disagreement about the unsaved person.
As for the saved person, confession of sins needs to be made to open the lines of communication back up. The relationship is hindered if we continue in sin and do not confess it. If my kids disobey me and refuse to acknowledge their wrong, it stresses the relationship. They’re still my kids, but the relationship cannot progress as it should because of it.
If I’m still not answering your question, could you clarify it or reword it?
Thanks, I’ll try again.
You said before that sin is forgiven with confession and referenced 1 John 1:9.
I’m taking that to mean you believe that only if we confess our sins “he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”
And the converse is that if we do not, he does not...
Would this be correct in your view?
Yes.
That is how the verse reads as I see it.
Do you see it differently?
bttt very well stated metmom
Thanks.
No, I see it the same way. I’m looking more at what this means in OSAS theology, saved without forgiveness, uncleansed..
Also, earlier we discussed repentance when I asked:
>>>”Is repenting “earning?” Is a sin forgiven without repenting?”
Your reply was “No.”
Did you mean “no, a sin forgiven without repenting” in this case?
Did you simply mean the perfect acceptable sacrifice?
I find few here at FR to be interested in the true substance of the Gospels. Most are looking for “grace” to be doing the job that Yeshua said obedience would do.
Understanding of grace is totally lacking here, and expectations WRT grace are stretched well beyond the breaking point. “Easy Believism” is the commonly applied term, but that lacks sufficient definition to be used descriptively.
I see no conflict. No one is saved without forgiveness.Forgiveness is the ONLY mechanism by which one can have their sins dealt with.
The other option is paying for them and that's not possible because the wages of sin is death and it's a debt we can't pay.
One can be saved with unconfessed sin in their lives. We all sin, every one of us every day, if not every hour.
It gets back to the imagery that Jesus used when washing Peter's feet. We need the daily confession and forgiveness of the sin we have committed to remain in an intimate, close, unobstructed relationship with God, but those sins do not condemn us. Our salvation is secure. God knows our frame, remembers that we are dust. That is why He chooses to not count our sin against us, to hold it to our account.
I firmly believe that my salvation is a done deal and that it is secure and I cannot unearn it, or lose it, if you will, through sin. I did not work to get it, I do not have to work to keep it. But I know better than to presumptuously take it for granted, and know that it is not a license to sin with impunity , as those who believe in OSAS are often accused of believing.
I couldn't do that the my Lord and my God who paid such a horrific price to redeem me. Neither could any other believer.
Here’s the contradiction I see:
>>No one is saved without forgiveness.
>> only if we confess our sins “he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”
It would seem, in OSAS, that we presume that: either we will confess all future sins or we will be saved without forgiveness.
We are cleansed from ALL unrighteousness.
We CANNOT be perfect, even once we are saved. When we are saved we are transferred into the kingdom of the Son he loves. We are seated with Christ in the heavenly places.
God chooses to credit our account with the righteousness of Christ so when He sees us, he sees the righteousness of Christ.
It's a legal transaction but not one contingent on our faithfulness or our ability to uphold it but HIS.
Thanks. According to your reply here, it would mean that, in OSAS, we presume that we will confess all future sins.
I don't see that anywhere.
rather, all future sins are forgiven.
If any man is in Christ, he is a new creation. He is saved and has new life spiritually, even though he still sins and has the flesh nature.
When the body dies, all that's left is the righteousness of Christ imputed to us.
When we sin here on earth, there are often consequences to that behavior which God does not always deliver us from, and when we die with unconfessed sin, I believe that we will have to answer for it at the Judgment Seat of Christ, which is not the judgment for salvation. God disciplines those He loves, and there is that to consider when not confessing sin.
Somehow, I get the impression that certain religious groups, particularly Catholics, have this idea that man is basically good and that when they go to confession they can remember to confess every sin they've committed.
It simply is not possible because there is so much unintentional sin that we commit, not to mention that even our best efforts are tainted with sin. Nobody's motives are pure. It's not possible because we're only human.
I guess I would have to agree for the most part with the total depravity of man. The sin nature corrupts every aspect of man's human nature, making everything we do in the flesh corrupted and incapable of being in the presence of God.
That is why we need to be born again, to receive a new nature, uncorrupted by sin.
In God’s brilliance, His solution for salvation is indeed easy. Nothing could be easier. Simply exercise faith alone in Him alone, in all things, and we continue to walk through faith in Him.
It only becomes difficult when we make it difficult, by trying to do His work for Him, instead of allowing His Providence to guide us along His Plan. Our scarred soul keeps confusing the knowledge of good and evil ever since the fall in the Garden with His Plan.
His Plan naturally allows us to perform divine good works through faith in Him, while we are in fellowship with Him, but whenever we perform good works on our own independent of faith in Him, no matter how good the work may seem, it still amounts as a counterfeit substitute for our life through faith in Christ, resulting in good for nothingness, never to receive any future reward by His Standards.
Adversity is inevitable. Stress is optional through faith in Christ.
Aren’t you contradicting your previous:
>>only if we confess our sins “he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” ?
It seems you are not applying this some sins.
Lots of cute catch phrases, kind of Madison Avenue style. No definitions, just convenient jargon.
Yeshua wouldn’t have filled the gospels with pleas for obedience, if that were not his greatest desire.
2 different situations, same solution.
1) Presalvation sin. Repentance and confession.
We turn back to God from sin and face Him (repentance, change of thinking). We then confess all known and unknown sins to Him through faith in what Christ did on the Cross (through faith in Christ). Results in His Forgiveness of our presalvation sins and He then is free in His Perfect Holiness to impute Perfect Righteousness to us. Regenerates our human spirit and we are in fellowship with Him, as a new man (Body, Soul, And Spirit).
If we later sin,...known or unknown, we fall out of fellowship with Him.
2) Postsalvation sin. Again, Repentance and confession.
We face back to Him, He is now the object of our thinking in what He performed on the Cross. We confess our postsalvation sins to Him (not a new salvation, but simply a washing of those areas needing cleansing.) He is sure and just to forgive us those sins (1stJn 1:9)
This simply places us back in fellowship.
We still need to walk in fellowship with Him.
We are still made for a purpose by His Plan.
To perform according to His Plan, we need to continue in fellowship with Him.
To understand His Plan, we study His Word. The more we breath in of His Word and remain in fellowship, the more He is able to sanctify us, cleaning up our soul, our mind, our memory, our thinking, our problem solving techniques, so we respond to situations by His Plan, instead of reacting by our old sin nature scarred in our souls from past wrong thinking.
By remaining in faith alone through Christ alone, we remain obedient His Plan, rather than obedient to only His Law.
Consider Romans 3:22, with close attention on the prepositional phrasing:
Rom 3:19-28
(19) Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
(20) Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
(21) But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
(22) Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
(23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
(24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
(25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
(26) To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
(27) Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
(28) Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
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