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Fascination with Francis Stirs Protestant Hearts
The National Catholic Reporter ^ | 1/22/14 | Bill Tammeus

Posted on 01/23/2014 12:12:50 PM PST by marshmallow

What has intrigued me most about Pope Francis is not the way in which Catholics -- well, most of them, anyway -- have embraced him but the way in which countless Protestants have moved into his fan club.

More is at play here than simple celebrity in our overwrought pop culture. At least, I hope so.

The Protestant fascination with him hasn't broken down the many theological, liturgical and structural barriers that still exist between Protestantism and Catholicism, but it has softened them a bit and it has caused some Protestants to want to figure out what makes Francis tick, what Jesuit theology is all about and what ground we Protestants might share in common with Catholics.

My own congregation is a good example of this phenomenon. Our pastor, Paul Rock, recently began a sermon series he's calling "Jesus, the Pope and a Protestant Walk Into a Bar." His sermons, which started Sunday, can be found here [1].

(Excerpt) Read more at ncronline.org ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Ecumenism; Evangelical Christian; Mainline Protestant
KEYWORDS: pcusa
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1 posted on 01/23/2014 12:12:50 PM PST by marshmallow
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To: marshmallow

When he talks about capitalism and economics in general, he sounds a lot like BHO to me.


2 posted on 01/23/2014 12:16:53 PM PST by Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
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To: Trapped Behind Enemy Lines

He is going to do lunch with satan obamao soon.


3 posted on 01/23/2014 12:18:18 PM PST by LibLieSlayer (FROM MY COLD, DEAD HANDS! BETTER DEAD THAN RED!)
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To: LibLieSlayer

I’m sure they will find a lot in common.


4 posted on 01/23/2014 12:19:10 PM PST by Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
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To: marshmallow

As a nondenominational Protestant and former Catholic, I like Francis’ regular-guy approachability, but some of his issue stances (not all) seem more in line with the liberals we rail about here on a regular basis.


5 posted on 01/23/2014 12:27:39 PM PST by ScottinVA (Obama is so far in over his head, even his ears are beneath the water level.)
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To: ScottinVA

As a practicing Catholic, the Pope’s policy views to me seem very typical of the Church leadership: Conservative on social issues, very liberal on domestic policy, immigration, the death penalty, big goverrnment, high taxes, and income redistribution.


6 posted on 01/23/2014 12:31:24 PM PST by Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
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To: marshmallow

I believe the breakdown of the wall began when the College of Cardinals elected a non Italian pope from Poland.


7 posted on 01/23/2014 12:33:31 PM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Sometimes you need 7+ more ammo. LOTS MORE.)
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To: marshmallow; Gamecock
What has intrigued me most about Pope Francis is not the way in which Catholics -- well, most of them, anyway -- have embraced him but the way in which countless Protestants have moved into his fan club....My own congregation is a good example of this phenomenon.

Given it's a PCUSA congregation, I'd say they're a great example of it!

Related thread:
Joel Olsteen Joins With Catholics To Convert Confused Protestants

8 posted on 01/23/2014 12:35:55 PM PST by Alex Murphy ("the defacto Leader of the FR Calvinist Protestant Brigades")
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To: marshmallow

Rock ribbed Baptist don’t pay much attention one way or the other.


9 posted on 01/23/2014 12:38:50 PM PST by Resolute Conservative
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To: Trapped Behind Enemy Lines

I can’t wait for the report.


10 posted on 01/23/2014 12:41:56 PM PST by LibLieSlayer (FROM MY COLD, DEAD HANDS! BETTER DEAD THAN RED!)
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To: marshmallow

have embraced him but the way in which countless Protestants have moved into his fan club.”

Um, not so much.

And that’s coming from a Protestant admirer of the two predecessors......


11 posted on 01/23/2014 12:49:12 PM PST by ConservativeDude
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To: Alex Murphy

Sure sounds like PCUSA nonsense to me, too.

No wonder.


12 posted on 01/23/2014 12:51:27 PM PST by F15Eagle (1Jn4:15;5:4-5,11-13;Mt27:50-54;Mk15:33-34;Jn3:17-18,6:69,11:25,14:6,20:31;Ro10:8-11;1Tm2:5-6;Ti3:4-7)
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To: marshmallow

Would Jesus have been as cordial with a mass murderer? At least he didn’t offer the devil a chair.


13 posted on 01/23/2014 12:59:37 PM PST by onedoug
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To: F15Eagle; Gamecock
Sure sounds like PCUSA nonsense to me, too. No wonder.

I'm beginning to think that some of our FRoman Catholic friends have a secret attraction to the PCUSA and the ELCA :)

14 posted on 01/23/2014 1:31:19 PM PST by Alex Murphy ("the defacto Leader of the FR Calvinist Protestant Brigades")
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To: Alex Murphy; F15Eagle
We do know that FRoman Catholics get a tingle down their leg whenever a report is released by Rome stating that great strides have been made in reconciling with Protestant churches.

Inevitably these churches are members of the World Council of Churches. The PC(USA) and the usual suspects are all members.

15 posted on 01/23/2014 2:10:42 PM PST by Gamecock (If you like your constitution, you can keep your constitution. Period. (M.S.))
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To: Gamecock

They eventually get a tingle, after they first check to make sure it’s not a stream. Poor things don’t know whether to stand proudly or squat in shame, such is the situation Francis has them in.


16 posted on 01/23/2014 2:14:44 PM PST by smvoice (There are no prizes given for defending the indefensible.)
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To: marshmallow

I tend to think that liberal, less strict-type Protestants (and I don’t necessarily mean liberal in a political sense) are more likely to embrace him. However, I do not think that Evangelical, Fundamentalist, Bible-only type Protestants do. I think this bears out right here on this site.


17 posted on 01/23/2014 2:24:06 PM PST by piusv
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To: piusv

And I think you are right. Just as conservative Catholics do not seem too keen on embracing him, neither do conservative non-Catholics.


18 posted on 01/23/2014 2:25:37 PM PST by smvoice (There are no prizes given for defending the indefensible.)
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To: piusv
However, I do not think that Evangelical, Fundamentalist, Bible-only type Protestants do.

We have those?

19 posted on 01/23/2014 2:29:23 PM PST by Gamecock (If you like your constitution, you can keep your constitution. Period. (M.S.))
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To: piusv; smvoice
Speaking of "liberals" your attention is invited to this thread.
20 posted on 01/23/2014 2:36:53 PM PST by Gamecock (If you like your constitution, you can keep your constitution. Period. (M.S.))
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To: marshmallow
have embraced him but the way in which countless Protestants have moved into his fan club.

...

The Protestant fascination with him ...caused some Protestants to want to figure out what makes Francis tick, what Jesuit theology is all about and what ground we Protestants might share in common with Catholics.

What protestants, I wonder?

Not me.

21 posted on 01/23/2014 3:22:57 PM PST by Lee N. Field ("You keep using that verse, but I do not think it means what you think it means.")
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To: Gamecock

Present.


22 posted on 01/23/2014 3:49:28 PM PST by Blogger
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To: piusv
I do not think that Evangelical, Fundamentalist, Bible-only type Protestants do. I think this bears out right here on this site.

Why don't you take a poll here and find out. Here's my vote: I have zero fascination for this Marxist Pope, and the Papacy period. "Stirs Protestant hearts?" Give me a break!

23 posted on 01/23/2014 4:31:58 PM PST by sasportas
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To: sasportas

I’ve never done one! Are you one of the three I mentioned?


24 posted on 01/23/2014 4:50:01 PM PST by piusv
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To: piusv

I think so, I’m to the right of Ian Paisley.


25 posted on 01/23/2014 4:58:26 PM PST by sasportas
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To: marshmallow; nickcarraway; NYer; ELS; Pyro7480; livius; ArrogantBustard; Catholicguy; RobbyS; ...
Coming Home Network
26 posted on 01/23/2014 5:02:16 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: ScottinVA

You are always a Catholic because that mark of Baptism is always on your soul —— forever.

You can come back at any time — just sit down with a priest and get your questions answered.


27 posted on 01/23/2014 5:04:24 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Lee N. Field; marshmallow

Disputatio pro declaratione virtutis indulgentiarum

28 posted on 01/23/2014 5:22:33 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet (Jealousy is when you count someone else's blessings instead of your own.)
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To: Salvation; ScottinVA

If no one can escape being a Catholic once they are baptized as infants, then full fledged, adult Catholics walking out of the voting booth, and who are actual Catholics in fact and in self description of faith, are really and truly Catholics, even though most of them vote for pro-abortion, pro-gay, pro-immigration democrats.


29 posted on 01/23/2014 5:49:19 PM PST by ansel12 (Ben Bradlee -- JFK told me that "he was all for people's solving their problems by abortion".)
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To: Trapped Behind Enemy Lines

The Catholic Church is not against the death. Says it should be used in certain cases. That’s also my stance. I was all for the death penalty for years. If the guy got death, fry him was my stance. Well when I realized that if you have money to buy the best lawyers you can be as guilty as hell as not get the death sentence. Sometimes be found not guilty when all the evidence proves you are quilty. It is rare that a man with money is put to death. Death row is crowded with those that didn’t have the money to buy their way out of it. When I finally came to the realization that the America judicial system is as crooked as any banana republic I changed my tune on the death penalty.


30 posted on 01/23/2014 6:31:03 PM PST by NKP_Vet ("We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office" ~ Aesop)
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To: ansel12

“I greatly admired President Kennedy and have adopted his tax cutting principles” ~ Ronald Reagan


31 posted on 01/23/2014 6:35:02 PM PST by NKP_Vet ("We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office" ~ Aesop)
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To: NKP_Vet

That quote doesn’t show up, but Reagan sure as heck better have said it, it is is a great way to mock JFK while exploiting his fake, post death image.

Exploiting the dead JFK for political ends is a smart strategy.

In private, Reagan wrote that JFK was a lefty “Marxist”.

Either way, your post is a very strange response to post 29, which said,
“”If no one can escape being a Catholic once they are baptized as infants, then full fledged, adult Catholics walking out of the voting booth, and who are actual Catholics in fact and in self description of faith, are really and truly Catholics, even though most of them vote for pro-abortion, pro-gay, pro-immigration democrats.””

On second thought I get it, promoting the democrat party, their greatest hero, it fits with the fact that most Catholics are pro-abortion, pro-gay, pro-immigration voting democrats.


32 posted on 01/23/2014 6:51:08 PM PST by ansel12 (Ben Bradlee -- JFK told me that "he was all for people's solving their problems by abortion".)
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To: ansel12

Ronald Reagan was a great fan of Jack Kennedy and said it many times. Probably the reason he stayed in the democrat party for so long.


33 posted on 01/23/2014 6:53:35 PM PST by NKP_Vet ("We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office" ~ Aesop)
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To: NKP_Vet

No, Reagan despised JFK, now after JFK was deified after his death, then Reagan and all GOP politicians use him in a positive way to promote their ideas, and to not commit political suicide.

I hope we aren’t going to see a lot of untruths being promoted again against Reagan and promoting the democrat party and their greatest hero, the man who’s election killed America.
I realize that most Catholics vote for abortion and immigration, but really, please not here at FR.


34 posted on 01/23/2014 6:58:59 PM PST by ansel12 (Ben Bradlee -- JFK told me that "he was all for people's solving their problems by abortion".)
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To: NKP_Vet
Ronald Reagan was a great fan of Jack Kennedy and said it many times. Probably the reason he stayed in the democrat party for so long.

Your quote in post 31 isn't accurate enough to find, but your claim right there is completely and utterly false, it seems deliberately false to me, since you have been corrected on that sickeningly anti-Reagan/pro-democrat claim before, it reads like something straight from DU.

We have the actual hand written letter from Reagan to the vice president of the United States requesting permission to help stop JFK, and saying that he was going to register republican, but the vice-president said that remaining registered as democrat would be more effective as Reagan fought to save America from JFK.

35 posted on 01/23/2014 7:23:20 PM PST by ansel12 (Ben Bradlee -- JFK told me that "he was all for people's solving their problems by abortion".)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Much has changed since A.D. 1517 and A.D. 1530 (the adoption of the Augsburg Confession) but not everything.

The signing of the Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification (JDDJ) in Augburg on Reformation Day of 1999 was the beginning of the end of the Reformation; but the Vatican’s announcment of the Millenial Jubilee Indulgences just a few weeks later proved that the JDDJ breakthrough was akin to D-Day...still a lot of hard work ahead.


36 posted on 01/23/2014 7:23:46 PM PST by lightman (O Lord, save Thy people and bless Thine inheritance, giving to Thy Church vict'ry o'er Her enemies.)
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To: ansel12

Reagan despised JFK?

“Many men are great, but few capture the imagination and the spirit of the times. The ones who do are unforgettable. Four administrations have passed since John Kennedy’s death, five presidents have occupied the Oval Office, and I feel sure that each of them thought of John Kennedy now and then, and his thousand days in the White House” ~ Ronald Reagan 1985


37 posted on 01/23/2014 7:38:04 PM PST by NKP_Vet ("We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office" ~ Aesop)
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To: NKP_Vet
No wonder Catholics vote democrat, even some here are anti-Reagan/pro-democrat propagandists.

That was a Peggy Noonan (Obama voter) written speech, for President Reagan to give at a fund-raiser for the John F. Kennedy Presidential Library, in 1985.

In private, in a hand written letter, Reagan revealed what he thought about JFK, and thank you for giving me the opportunity to expose this to more freepers.

Reagan in a personal, hand written letter to the vice President, describing JFK after JFK's nomination speech.
"I heard a frightening call to arms. Unfortunately he is a powerful speaker with an appeal to the emotions. He leaves little doubt that his idea of the “challenging new world” is one in which the Federal Govt. will grow bigger & do more and of course spend more. I know there must be some short sighted people in the Republican Party who will advise that the Republicans should try to “out liberal” him. In my opinion this would be fatal."

"One last thought,— shouldn’t some one tag Mr. Kennedy’s bold new imaginative program with it’s proper age? Under the tousled boyish hair cut it is still old Karl Marx—first launched a century ago."

38 posted on 01/23/2014 8:01:47 PM PST by ansel12 (Ben Bradlee -- JFK told me that "he was all for people's solving their problems by abortion".)
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To: ansel12

Please cite the link THAT PROVES Peggy Noonan voted for Obama.

“In the 2012 presidential campaign, in the days prior to the November election, she expressed optimism for a Mitt Romney victory over Barack Obama because she said she saw happy faces and optimism among Republicans”.

http://hotair.com/archives/2012/03/29/peggy-noonan-this-obama-character-seems-increasingly-dishonest-and-devious-to-me/


39 posted on 01/23/2014 9:11:41 PM PST by NKP_Vet ("We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office" ~ Aesop)
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To: NKP_Vet

It is sure bizarre to have to deal with the democrat element here.

You might want to look at some of the old threads we anti-democrat conservatives were reading at freerepublic during the 2008 election.

It appears that Noonan voted with the Catholics in 2008.


40 posted on 01/23/2014 10:22:52 PM PST by ansel12 (Ben Bradlee -- JFK told me that "he was all for people's solving their problems by abortion".)
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To: Salvation
You are always a Catholic because that mark of Baptism is always on your soul —— forever.

In Catholic teaching. I was baptized as an adult... willfully... into a relationship with Christ.

41 posted on 01/24/2014 5:26:13 AM PST by ScottinVA (Obama is so far in over his head, even his ears are beneath the water level.)
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To: sasportas; Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
Actually, saswportas and trapped, the Pope is not a "Marxist5" and did not "bash" "capitalism," he just said that the trickle-down theory does not, "por si’ mismo" (Spanish)… "di per se" (Italian)… on other words, "by itself" ... promote economic inclusion for the poor. And that's true.

All Christians know that no "system" can exclude the need for charity and voluntary philanthropy by individuals, families, churches, church-related institutions, non-profits, and other organizations who try to support the elderly and disabled, equip people for the work force, etc. etc.

The important words here were "por si mismo" -- "by itself." Without charity and without the Gospel.

Non-market forces, such as laws to curb the activities of fraudsters and banksters, monetary manipulation, money-laundering, illegal trade in drugs, prostitution, human trafficking, insider trading, ponzi schemes, etc. --- plus the impact of non-market exchanges via charitable giving and philanthropy --- will always be needed, because "trickle down" doesn't produce opportunity and inclusion all . by . itself .

Be careful that you don't accept a Marxist spin on this, which is the one ultimately promoted by the Soros groups

42 posted on 01/24/2014 7:26:55 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o (Judica me, Deus, et discerne causam meam de gente non sancta.)
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To: Salvation
By that particular definiton (Baptism making an indelible mark on the soul), all the Calvinists, Baptists, and Evangelical believers in the FR Religion Forum are Catholics, too.

Which is fine by me, my brethren and sistren.

43 posted on 01/24/2014 7:31:00 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("In Christ we form one body, and each member belongs to all the others." Romans 12:5)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

May I then suggest the Vatican hire a new interpretor?

Who were they using? The same guy who did the sign language at Mandela’s funeral?


44 posted on 01/24/2014 8:34:37 AM PST by Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
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To: Mrs. Don-o

I posted this on another thread some time ago. Deserves repeating:

Put a Marxist in charge of the Roman church, the Catholic FReepers cover for him at every step, they do it all the time on the RF. Whatever political conservatism they might have goes out the window it seems, it apparently doesn’t mean diddly to a Catholic.

Taking a look at their history, it is understandable. Catholics were totalitarian tyrants from the day they sold their souls to the Roman emperor Constantine, continuing as Roman empire tyrants until the modern era put an end to it (thank God). Marxism is not such a bad thing to people of such a totalitarian bent. No wonder you have no problem with this Marxist Pope.


45 posted on 01/24/2014 9:16:51 AM PST by sasportas
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To: Mrs. Don-o

As you well know, many of those Baptisms are accepted by the Catholic Church, and those entering RCIA become candidates rather than catechumens. (I think I have that correct; please correct me if I am in error.)


46 posted on 01/24/2014 9:29:55 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
LOL.

I think it's worse than Mandela's one-man-band arm-waving interpreter. I think it's the "hive" --- the one Joe Sobran used to talk about. It's the the swarm of bien-pensant bees that waggle their little rear ends up or down or diagonally or in figure-8's, and within minutes the whole hive knows whether today's theme is "Republican War on Women" or "Science Says Global Warming Gonna Gitcha" or "We Wuv Pope Fwancis Cuz He's Pwogwessive Like Us."

And don't be calling it a "Conspiracy Theory," because they don't even have to "conspire". They just have to tune into the story line for 5 seconds, and the Narrative has been set: Pope Francis warm, Pope Benedict Cold. Pope Francis' black shows, Pope Benedict's Red Shoes. Pope Francis hates Capitalism, Pope Benedict is one of the Koch Brothers, or at least a Cold-as-Capitalist Cousin.

These are the people who simultaneously, around the world, decide which 15 words out of every 55,000 word papal document will be deemed newsworthy, and will be cropped and framed and put in the headline, the captions, and the lede.

Do you know what I mean?

47 posted on 01/24/2014 11:20:51 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("Early in life I had noticed that no event is ever correctly reported in a newspaper." George Orwell)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

The Catholic leadership (defined as the bishops and the cardinals) at least here in the US comes across generally speaking as very conservative on social issues such as abortion and marriage, yet quite liberal on domestic policy issues most notably immigration, the death penalty, redistribution of wealth, big government, higher taxes, more spending——all nicely couched as “social justice”-—I think Pope Francis falls into this characterization as well from all that I’ve seen and read about him.


48 posted on 01/24/2014 11:27:36 AM PST by Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
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To: sasportas; Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
Here's a choice assessment of Pope Francis from the actual Catholic Left (and ex-Catholic but still-Left), Andrew O'Hehir and Matthew Fox --- courtesy of Salon:

http://www.salon.com/2013/03/16/is_pope_francis_a_fraud/

"As Fox and many other Catholic and ex-Catholic dissidents see it, Vatican II marked the moment when the church had the chance to reinvent itself as a flexible moral and spiritual force in a rapidly changing world. Indeed, it briefly seemed to do just that – and it’s important to understand that Bergoglio, like Joseph Ratzinger and Karol Wojtyla before him, was part of the right-wing counterrevolution within the church that aggressively rolled back those changes, crushed dissident thought and reasserted the absolute power of the pope and his hierarchy.

"Pope Francis is a longtime ally of Communion and Liberation, a fiercely conservative Catholic organization that insists on “total fidelity and communion” with the church leadership and is devoted, among other things, to battling European socialism and Latin American liberation theology. In Italian politics, CL has been closely tied to the party of Silvio Berlusconi, and its founder was an intimate friend of Cardinal Ratzinger before he became Benedict XVI."

I love to hear sweet, reassuring words like that.. :o)

49 posted on 01/24/2014 11:27:42 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("Early in life I had noticed that no event is ever correctly reported in a newspaper." George Orwell)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

This would all be great if true. I still believe the Pope has issues with free market capitalism, limited government, individual liberty, and private property as do many in the Catholic clergy from top to bottom. Would like to be proven wrong about my current assessment.


50 posted on 01/24/2014 11:41:30 AM PST by Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
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