Posted on 01/27/2014 3:23:41 AM PST by markomalley
It is perhaps emblematic of our decadent times that the two most noteworthy legal maneuvers of late, occupying significant time and resources of the the legislative and judicial branches are: providing legal recognition to homosexual unions, and the legalization of the smoking of marijuana. Welcome to the decadent West.
To these legal maneuvers it must be added to other ignominies of recent decades such as no-fault divorce and the horrifying legalization of the killing of the unborn; 53 million dead Americans and counting, plus the untold cost of the destruction of marriage and family as we once knew it.
Maybe there is a certain perverted “Logic” to wanting to legalize getting stoned. People after all need to medicate their anxious and bewildered souls! I say this, of course, tongue-in-cheek.
I think this is the first time I have commented on the increasing attempt to legalize the use and sale of marijuana “in small amounts.” Frankly, there are bigger issues. Most of us know that pot has been around for a while is probably here to stay. Nevertheless our insistence that we legalize its selling and use is not a healthy sign.
I suppose the libertarian in me says, “Why should the government care if people smoke a little weed. But the pragmatist in me says, “The last thing we need is a more widespread use of another mind altering drug that makes people, frankly, stupid.”
A few disclaimers, before I make my main point.
1. Some claim, that alcohol has caused far more harm than pot. This is probably so. But of course alcohol is more widely used, and that surely explains its more devastating effects in our culture. And it hardly makes sense to argue that sanctioning another legal mind altering drug will have little or no effect through traffic accidents and other deleterious behaviors. Of course it will, being out of our right mind is seldom going to produce good effects.
The bottom line is alcohol has been with us almost from the beginning, and is here to stay. It is in a different category that other drugs in that the Scriptures permit, even commend its moderate use, and Jesus made wine and used it for the sacrament of his Blood.
No one would argue that alcohol abuse is a good thing. Why add to the problem with pot?
2. Some say that legal sanctions are not the proper way to deal with drug use. To some degree it is reasonable to argue that incarcerating people with drug problems is not a wise approach. Perhaps it is these more punitive measures that need adjustment, rather then sanctioning the use of marijuana by the removal of most legal obstacles to its sale and use.
3. Some say that laws will not stop the use of pot, it is a cultural trend and people who want to use it will find a way. I will say that law has influenced me. Knowing that something is illegal and carries possible severe legal issues influences my thinking an helps my choice to stay away from such proscribed behaviors, not just with drugs, but other illegal activities too. I doubt I am alone. Law does have a pedagogical (educational) function.
4. I ought to say, I have never even tried pot. Frankly I have never even taken a drag on an ordinary cigarette, not even once. The thought of dragging filthy smoke into my lungs has never had any appeal to me. I like the smell of a good cigar or pipe, or incense but I have no interest in dragging that stuff into my lungs in large and literally choking quantities. That the anti-smoking zealots are not on the warpath about smoking dope is a puzzling silence and probably another example of the self-censorship of political correctness.
But on to the main point, Namely, a discussion I would like to have about the observed effects of marijuana use. I want to say that the reflections I offer, are anecdotal; they are not rooted in advanced statistical studies. Frankly, I don’t have a lot of interest in looking up the statistical surveys on pot use, most of which will be questioned by anyone who doesn’t like the results anyway. I am more interested in having a discussion here about the effects of marijuana use as I have observed them, and to inquire of your own experience with having either used marijuana, or observed others who do.
Some say that pot causes no harm. I disagree from about fifty + years of observation of what I have seen it do to others.
Back in high school (mid 70s) about 30% of the students in my Public High School of 3,500 students smoked dope regularly. They called in “partying” “getting stoned” or “getting high” in those days.
It wasn’t hard to know when someone started using marijuana. Almost instantly their over all attitude changed. Many who had been good students, engaged and talented, started to withdraw, and adopt a passive aggressive stance.
Regular pot use by them, from my observation, caused a kind of lethargy, a sort of laid-back, who-cares attitude often mixed in with a non-complaint resistance: “Hey man, I ain’t got to go to the man’s class…”
The look on the face of pot users came to seem vacant and dull, their eyes glazed and unfocused. Their posture became slouchy, clothing and hygiene suffered. Absenteeism and tardiness increased. And when they were in class at all, they weren’t really engaged or alive. Their faces tended to take on a kind of hang-dog look, jaw half open, hands in their pocket, shirt untucked; they seemed bored with life, and uninterested. Frankly, they seemed “medicated.”
Generally grades dropped and anti-social tendencies increased. Some who had once played sports withdrew when drugs entered. Membership in other clubs also ceased and was replaced with hangin’ out in the smoking court, a place (in those days) set aside for students who smoked cigarettes.
Now mind you these were the after-effects of pot use. I am not saying they were “high” all the time. But long after the high was gone, these lethargic symptoms lingered and became a rather stable part of their disposition.
Except for those who are in more advanced stages of alcohol abuse, the effects of the alcohol abate after intoxication passes (plus perhaps a brief hangover). But pot seems different, it seems to alter the personality more “stably” so that the user is dull even when not high.
Some may call this dullness by more positive labels such as being laid-back, carefree, or cool. But I am sorry, I have seen spiritually serene people, and they don’t come across as medicated. What a spiritually serene person manifests is worlds apart from the dulled medicated look of pot smokers.
Now as I say, this is my anecdotal testimony. But I offer it with fifty-two years experience, 25 of them as a priest and counselor.
Pot is no good. It messes with your mind on a semi-permanent basis, causes lethargy, dullness and makes you unmotivated. Getting “high” introduces a kind of dull and low bottom dwelling when the “high” is gone.
Don’t do drugs. Pot is not harmless, it will change your personality and make you dull of mind and heart. It introduces stinking thinking.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church says,
The use of drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life. Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense. Clandestine production of and trafficking in drugs are scandalous practices. They constitute direct co-operation in evil, since they encourage people to practices gravely contrary to the moral law. (# 2291)
This is pretty unambiguous and something a Catholic ought to take to heart before saying the legalization of drugs is no big deal. And while many say pot is harmless, my experience of observing others is that it is not harmless at all.
How say you? What have you observed?
sure...come on over. It's the F 150 in the driveway. ..... just ignore the guy with the Sig P226 standing next to you as you climb into the cab without my permission. I won't even call the police, I'll let your family file a missing persons report.
Any other idiotic faux arguments? What does theft have to do with legislating moral choices? Yeah, it's morally wrong to steal my stuff. I don't need the law on the books to know that.
The law is for society to protect you, the thief, from me the victim from hunting you down, killing you, your family and then taking all your stuff out of revenge... you know? Old school justice. It sets the parameters of what is acceptable punishment for offenses against individuals.
If this is your argument for smoking pot, brother put the pipe down and drink some Mountain Dew. hahahahaha.
” “gladdens the heart of man””
No it doesn;t
The harsh but true reality. Now, we've become a "civilization" that expends most of its wealth enabling negative behaviors. It isn't sustainable.
-Theft
-Perjury
-Arson
-Assault
-Murder
and on and on.
It is all a matter of the degree that we are willing to tolerate.
The federal government should continue to keep marijuana a Schedule I drug and do whatever they can to prosecute users and interfere with any state attempt to pass legislation that doesn't conform to federal policy, and overturn any that is passed.
The legalized modern evils stem from a lack of hope which is eventually inevitably when people lose faith in God. And so they are told to have abortions because there is no providential God to take care of them. Before this, immoral sexual activity is oten engaged in because people don’t know that God’s Grace can strengthen them. Without Grace, marriages break down and divorce skyrockets, causing people to lose faith in marriage and the family. And so they say, why not go ahead and have gay marriage, what does it matter? Finally, without God’s Grace, life’s crosses are even heavier and really unbearable. So let’s legalize drugs, get stoned, and try to replace God’s Grace, prayer and contemplation, with the counterfeit, pseudo-mysticism of drug stupor. Through prayer and witness, we need to offer the hopeless, hope. They need to know that only the knowledge of God’s Love for us can give us lasting peace.
“My peace I leave you. My peace I give to you. Not as the world gives do I give it to you. Do not let your hearts be troubled or afraid.” -John 14:27
“To live without God is to start down a path that can only lead to despair. ... The people of hope are those who believe that God created them for a purpose and that He will provide for them.” -Blessed John Paul II
“You can’t legislate morality.” - Dick Vomer
All law is an attempt to legislate morality. Even speeding laws issue out of “Thou shalt not kill”, with the thought that speeding endangers the lives of others. Even the twisted laws liberals sometimes promulgate issue out of their confused morality. In Muslim countries where they cut off your hand for stealing, they don’t have much of a problem with stealing. I don’t agree with such a draconian punishment but they are effectively legislating morality. Many of the women having legal abortions now, would tough it out and not have an illegal abortion if abortion were still illegal. Many did when abortion was illegal and probably most are glad they did. Abortion laws legislate morality.
Thank you for your service to our country and I’m sure we agree about much more than we disagree about. But I just disagree with the idea that morality can’t be legislated.
“If you can’t legislate morality, what can you legislate?”
-Fr.George William Rutler
“The law is the great teacher.” -John Cardinal O’Connor
First Gamecock listed Theft
-Perjury
-Arson
-Assault
-Murder
as "laws" and how we are trying to legislate morality. I say that I don't need a law to know that theft, perjury, arson etc.. is wrong. I know morally that it is not in keeping with my morals. I can kick the cr@p out of someone because I "feel" like it or as a defensive measure to prevent an attack. What my internal moral compass tells me is more important than a law in which I may kill someone but "my intent" was in the first case immoral and unlawful and in the second case moral but unlawful depending on the jurisdiction and the whim of the judge/prosecutors/cops.
So you can legislate that I shouldn't kill but that in NO WAY prevents me from killing. My moral code, my compass tells me that taking someones life is wrong and I don't need a law to tell me that if someone were raping my wife or beating my daughters to a pulp to not kill them is unlawful and immoral.
You CAN'T legislate morality, you can only show by the laws you pass and are willing to obey where your morals lay. My kids don't need a law to tell them not to rob a store, rape a woman, kill their babies, not pay bills... they will do what is morally correct to them. The law is just society's way of emphasizing what the collective thinks is "moral" and "just" in the form of defining the moral question and giving the moral punishment for an offense.
In the field in combat, I can shoot an enemy soldier and I feel that as soldiers we are honor bound to follow our oaths to defend country and family. While I can come upon a wounded combatant that is offering to surrender, with my support group 100 yards behind me, all alone and take my knife out and slit his throat.... one is murder the other is combat and results in the death of my opponent. Only God knows my intent, he is the only one that knows what motivation lies in my heart that results in death... but in either case I can be called up for violations of the ROE and end up in Leavenworth making big rocks into little rocks. Morally I know what the correct path is, but legally is where the ambiguity is.
So we come to marijuana. The libs want to stop all to stop smoking (evil corporations make to much money) and don't mind marijuana (benevolent drug lords handing out presents to children). huh? If those that support drug use can't understand that this is a means to control and destroy your souls then by all means fire it up and don't bogart the joint.
Well, you “caught me” in that I don’t own a lab, I’m not a scientist, and I can’t tell you the scientific reason why I don’t have siezures when I smoke pot, but I do when I don’t.
All that I do know is, it works for me.
And from what I hear, it works for other people too.
And I don’t think it’s any particular “strain”, as all of them seem to work as an anti-convulsant.
When I spoke to my neurologist about it, yes, my neurologist, the guy who probably *does* have a lab and knows all the names of the whositis and the whatsits, he told me that yes, cannabis *does* prevent seizures, but it can hurt your lungs. Whereas the synthetic medication can prevent seizures, but it wrecks my kidneys and my liver and gives me horrible, horrible mood swings.
Did you know that cannabis was used, successfully, to treat many neurologicial disorders during the 6,000 years of human evolution prior to the criminalization of cannabis in the 1930s because hemp was competing with nylon?
So you can go ahead and be smug and self-righteous and try to assure yourself that pot smokers are all hanging out in their parents basement munching on chips and watching the game all day, and you can go ahead and try to convince yourself that our “lack of ambition” gives you a leg up in the workplace. The truth is, you would probably be rather surprised at the professional careers that we hold. I don’t have to “compete” with you or your kin for a good career, I’ve already got one.
And this *is* all about people trying to push thier personal code of ethics on other people through legislation. Don’t like pot? How about you don’t smoke it? Should you ban alcohol because it can effect productivity in the workplace? Should you ban cigarettes in case someone flicks a smoke at a gas pump while they are working?
I prefer a world where I am free to make my own decisions instead of having Big Government tell me what I can and cannot do.
By the way, if you view everyone else in this country as “competition for creating wealth for you and your family”, you might have larger issues than I.
All laws are essentially a legislation of morality, from the Thou Shall Not Kill laws all the way to the current Thou Shall Not Drink A 64 Oz Soda In Manhattan.
“You CAN’T legislate morality, you can only show by the laws you pass and are willing to obey where your morals lay. My kids don’t need a law to tell them not to rob a store, rape a woman, kill their babies, not pay bills... they will do what is morally correct to them”
This basically says that you will ignore unjust laws and do what you feel is correct. That’s kind of where I am with the cannabis laws.
Interesting that you continually referance violence as your way of enforcing the laws that you would like to see enforced.
“So we come to marijuana. The libs want to stop all to stop smoking (evil corporations make to much money) and don’t mind marijuana (benevolent drug lords handing out presents to children).”
Odd, I haven’t heard of liberals or conservatives or anyone else suggesting that we stop all cigarette smoking. I think we have reached a point in our country where pretty much everyone *knows* that cigarette smoking is bad for you and will lead to cancer, emphysima, and a number of other extremely unpleasant conditions. Scientists can show you a pretty direct cause and effect, yet it’s still legal to smoke, despite all of the smoking related deaths it creates.
Here’s a bonus question for you, worth double points. How many people died from smoking pot last year? How about the year before that? How about in the last hundred years? The last thousand?
Answer: Zero people have ever died from smoking pot.
When I spoke to my neurologist about it, yes, my neurologist, the guy who probably *does* have a lab and knows all the names of the whositis and the whatsits, he told me that yes, cannabis *does* prevent seizures, but it can hurt your lungs. Whereas the synthetic medication can prevent seizures, but it wrecks my kidneys and my liver and gives me horrible, horrible mood swings.
Unless your neurologist is at a university med school he doesn't have a lab. But if he says it works then by all means, fire it up bra'.
Did you know that cannabis was used, successfully, to treat many neurologicial disorders during the 6,000 years of human evolution prior to the criminalization of cannabis in the 1930s because hemp was competing with nylon?
Again with the BS? Really, which neurological maladies were treated by pot.....successfully ? Please stop yapping about a subject, namely medicine , which you know nothing about. it really makes you appear to be a pot smoking advocate that is just parroting some bs factoids from High Times talking points. Jeez.
It gets you high, makes you feel good and forget about your problems. If you want to justify it by curing your seizures, go or it. That's my point.
And this *is* all about people trying to push thier personal code of ethics on other people through legislation. Don’t like pot? How about you don’t smoke it? Should you ban alcohol because it can effect productivity in the workplace? Should you ban cigarettes in case someone flicks a smoke at a gas pump while they are working?
that's what I said all along. Laws won't stop somebody from doing something, only their morals will. The law just punishes those who disagree with society's agreed upon rules and punishments. Like I said, if you want to crank up a joint.....by all means go for it. Just don't bathe your choice of escape in the pseudo-scientific mumbo jumbo, it really makes you look like an idiot to anyone with a real medical or scientific background.
By the way, if you view everyone else in this country as “competition for creating wealth for you and your family”, you might have larger issues than I.
That's what we do. We compete for everything, even with ourselves in order to better ourselves . Educational opportunities, jobs, real estate, business, innovation, music, medicine,... Always improving or your wasting your time that you've been given in this life.
Then there’s the people who drink wine because someone said it was good for you.
Your post is rambling and disjointed. I never referenced violence as a way to enforce anything. That comment and the other about never hearing that anybody wants to make smoking illegal.... Really? Try smoking in california, or in a bar or public event.
As far as death on pot..... Hate to break it to you, but people fall down and even get in car wrecks and industrial accidents while smoking pot.
but what do I know,huh? I’ve only seen the positive tox screens.
Dude, put down the doobie and clear up your thinking. I’m out.
“Again with the BS? Really, which neurological maladies were treated by pot.....successfully ? Please stop yapping about a subject, namely medicine , which you know nothing about. it really makes you appear to be a pot smoking advocate that is just parroting some bs factoids from High Times talking points. Jeez.”
Gee, I’m sorry it rubs you the wrong way that I posted that my seizures stop when I smoke pot.
But they do.
And I have a friend with MS who gets wicked cases of the shakes, and they do stop when she smokes.
I’m sorry that my first hand experiances are not adequately referanced with medical terms, but that’s not where my background lies. But I don’t have to be a doctor to know that when I smoke, I don’t have seizures, but once I stop for about a week or so, they return.
I disagree that everything in life is a competition for resources. Sometimes it’s nice to just watch the sun rise and reflect on how beautiful it is to be alive, and what a gift that life is. But to each his own.
“As far as death on pot..... Hate to break it to you, but people fall down and even get in car wrecks and industrial accidents while smoking pot.
but what do I know,huh? I’ve only seen the positive tox screens.”
The cause of death would be “car accident”, not smoking pot. Just like when someone has too many beers and drives drunk. It’s the car wreck that kills you, not the drinks that you had before driving off into the proverbial sunset.
One can sit down at a bar and literally drink oneself to death. The cause of death is alcohol poisoning.
One cannot sit down and smoke pot until death occurs. There is no such thing as “Death By THC” in history.
That’s my point.
I’m kinda interested to see how the liberals who condemn smoking are going to be able to say pot is okay. They might try to say it’s the same but I’m hearing that pot today is considerably harsher than in the 60s and 70s. Very early reports say there has been a spike in driving-related problems in Colorado because of marijuana-intoxicated drivers. I’m wondering if groups like MADD are going to complain about drug legalization.
It's going to be an entire new industry in pot detection, defining intoxication on pot and on and on. Just introducing chaos into society. Mission accomplished.
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