Posted on 02/15/2014 10:52:59 AM PST by NKP_Vet
Yes, I know that is your belief.
My entire point is that it isn’t in your power, and it’s not ever going to be, so you should focus on doing what is in your power in order to achieve the goal you are seeking.
Forcing a woman to bear the child of a rapist if she doesn’t want to isn’t reasonable, and it isn’t ever going to be law in this country.
I don’t participate in the “March for Life” and “40 days for life”, each and every year because I think it’s a lost cause.
People are coming around. Prayer works miracles.
I know you don’t think it’s a lost cause, and saving the children of rape from abortion is a very fine cause.
Forcing women to bear those children if they don’t want to is something else altogether, and it’s not something that I’d want any part of.
What I stated is a few points about what the Catholic Church teaches about Baptism.
You responded with a bunch of ignorant questions, such as about babies going to Hell. There is nothing that I said, and nothing the Catholic Church teaches, that implies that unbaptized babies go to Hell.
Peppering me with loaded questions about stuff I never implied, e.g., that unbaptized babies go to Hell, as though you have trapped me making preposterous assertions, is what I call “bashing.”
If you are interested in why Catholics baptize babies, you can look it up. Wikipedia has lots of very good articles.
As far as is consistent with a non-police state. Just as was true for about a century before Roe v. Wade.
Do you believe in capital punishment for the rapist.
I believe it would be appropriate if evaluated on a case by case basis.
The reason I would want it to be case by case and not mandatory upon conviction is because I am aware that false accusations of rape are made.
But in a case where a rape is proven to have occurred and most certainly in any case of a serial rapist, yes.
I’d probably be for it in other instances of sex crimes too, because I find such crimes to be particularly heinous.
The problem with that, Arthur, is that we can’t go back in time.
I wish that we could, to be honest, because we could really use a do over on any number of things.
But this is a case of you can’t put the genie back in the bottle, or even there is no putting the toothpaste back in the tube.
The procedure exists, and based upon how the law and politics work in this country, and based on what people in general think about the law and politics, I don’t see any way to undo it entirely.
I do think it is possible to reduce its frequency to almost none, but even that task faces similar hurdles, and is truly difficult as we can see from trying to get it done so far.
So you support abortion for rape and incest.
At what point would that allow a woman to abort the baby if abortion is illegal? Is it after she proves she was raped, after a rape conviction, or is it something she can just bring up anytime.
Does the incest have to be rape, or just anytime a sister and brother, or a cousin have sex that results in pregnancy.
Do you vote for the libertarian party? Is that why you want to convince conservatives that social liberalism cannot be rolled back once the left wins a victory like Roe v Wade?
The reason I ask is that humans are composed of a body, a soul, and a spirit.
The body is procreated by sexual act.
The soul is created at the time of birth and imputed to the body.
The human spirit is regenerated at the time of saving faith, and the believer is then given that eternal life.
Murder is the illegitimate act of killing the human, resulting in the separation of the soul/spirit from the body.
In the case of abortion, the physical body is destroyed, making it unable to receive the soul.
While the RCC tends to consider abortion as infanticide or murder of a human, Augustinian theology declares only God creates the soul and places it in the human body. This is generally identified with the moment of birth from the mother when the soul is activated in the baby.
There are some who argue the soul resides in the baby at conception, but that would tend to support a heretical theology that man creates the soul rather than God.
Biologically, the same physical symptoms used to identify life in the body of an adult, is present within the baby by the first trimester.
A safer approach might be to consider the act against a ‘potential human life’ as being criminal.
The arguments allowing abortion in cases of rape, fail to acknowledge life in the baby prior to birth from the mother. Even if not embued with a soul or spirit, the physical baby still has biological human life, though it’s killing is not identical to murder of a mature human adult, it still deprives that person of life and steals their rewards which had been predestined for them by God in eternity past.
A broken record is reading through your posts and practically seeing a simple chant, over and over, and over.
It is easy to see how you cling so strongly to your pro-abortion beliefs, you don’t seem willing to let in any sunshine that can shake your devotion to it instead just the chant.
Well, you know sadly I believe that the soul is in the baby.
I can’t specify exactly when that occurs, but it is my belief that it’s there form the start.
I do believe abortion is murder, and I believe it is an absolute tragedy.
But it’s the mother’s decision to do that. She is a victim of rape, and that is something that she, very unfortunately, has to weigh.
I sincerely hope that she decides not to abort the baby. You know, if she doesn’t want to raise it, which is perfectly understandable, she can adopt it.
The gravity of this being done to someone is so severe that this is why I would support the death penalty for rapists.
Much as I want the victim to do the right thing, I am not prepared to tell her that she has no choice but to deliver the child.
I just can’t do that.
What would happen if abortion were 100% illegal, there was no access to it under any circumstance whatsoever, and a scum of the earth, low life rapist decides that he is going to continue his genes by raping and impregnating as many women as he can, thus exploiting such a law to his advantage?
I really think that, considering this, the victim must be given the option. We have to let them decide, and do our best to guide them in the right direction.
There is the chant again.
What is your defense for abortion in the case of incest?
At what point would that allow a woman to abort the baby if abortion is illegal? Is it after she proves she was raped, after a rape conviction, or is it something she can just bring up anytime during her pregnancy without any evidence, what if it is husband rape and they stay together?
Does the incest have to be rape, or just anytime a sister and brother, or a cousin have sex that results in pregnancy.
The societal problem—aside from the 57 million dead people—is precisely that our law currently authorizes both the government and private citizens to commit murder. Nobody is safe.
Until abortion is treated under the law for what it actually is—homicide—we do not have a legitimate government. We have a gangster cabal in charge, not the U.S. Constitution.
There is no tube, no toothpaste. There is a criminal government, and its eventual fate will be that of other criminal governments.
Tolerating abortion is not a path to peace. It is a path to revolution.
It is what it is, man.
This world is very far from perfect. In a perfect world, men wouldn’t rape women either.
I guess we have that to look forward to in the afterlife, but not here.
Here is closer to Hell in many ways.
If everyone had your attitude, we would still have slavery, and open sewers running down the middle of the streets.
As others have commented, you parrot every bogus canard put out by the abortion movement, while pretending to be pro-life.
I’m not pretending anything.
I don’t even follow the abortion movement, or its canards or anyone in it.
It’s interesting how everyone accuses me of that.
I am arguing that it is outside of common sense and reason to force women to bear the children of the men who raped them.
No one here has given me a single reason as to why that should be the case. I have given many reasons why it shouldn’t be the case, is not currently the case, and isn’t ever going to be the case.
And the ONLY response I get is oh your pro abortion. Well, no I’m not.
And no, telling me it isn’t right to murder the baby because it had nothing to do with the rape ISN’T a reason to force them to bear those children, because doing that doesn’t address the fact that they WERE DENIED CONSENT, and are going to be subjected to that again, which I and many others will never be part of.
So until you can sell your position in identifiable, reasonable and rational terms, you are going to continue to be defeated.
The answer is simple.
Place faith in God and His Provision, not in our ability to perform good as an opposite to evil.
He provides and places the soul into the baby. If not, the baby is stillborn. Place faith in Him first, in all things.
I definitely agree with that.
All I can do in my own life is ask Jesus to forgive me for my sins, because I have sinned.
Some things I’ve done I wish I could just take back you know, but I can’t.
I expect that everyone on this planet may be in the same boat as me as well.
We are truly at His mercy.
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