Does the Earth Abide Forever, Like the Bible Says?

"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea." (Rev 21:1 KJV)

Some even believe there will literally be no seas/oceans in the "new earth!" But there are many other verses that seem to contradict Rev 21:1, as follows:

"One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever." (Eccl 1:4 KJV)

"Bless the Lord, O my soul. O Lord my God ... Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever." (Ps 104:1, 5 KJV)

"For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited …" (Isa 45:18 KJV)

"For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved." (John 3:17 KJV)

"I am the living bread which came down from heaven… which I will give for the life of the world." (John 6:51 KJV)

"And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world." (John 12:47 KJV)

"Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen." (Eph 3:21 KJV)

"And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever." (Rev 11:15 KJV)

When considering all that, it does seem likely that Revelation 21:1 has been misinterpreted. Similar verses to 21:1 can be found in Isaiah:

"And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord God shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name: That he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth; and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten, and because they are hid from mine eyes. For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind." (Isa 65:15-19 KJV)

"For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain. And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord. And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me …" (Isa 66:22-24 KJV)

My first question on that passage would be, "where did all those dead people come from? Isn't this supposed to be a new earth?"

Digging deeper, I find similar inconsistencies in the New Jerusalem references of the "new earth" in Revelation 21 and 22, as follows:

"And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it." (Rev 21:24 KJV)

"In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations." (Rev 22:2 KJV)

So, in the "new earth" we find nations and we find kings? Where did they come from? And some or all of the nations even require healing?

Nothing seems to fit a literal new-heaven, new-earth scenario. It seems more likely that the new heaven and new earth terms are symbolic for a major spiritual change, or something similar. Peter offers this:

"Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness." (2 Pet 3:13 KJV)

Now, if God sent his Son to save the world, what better way to save it than changing the spirituality of the inhabitants from evil to righteous?

After examining all this evidence, I have no alternative but to conclude that this earth abideth forever, like the Preacher, the Son of David, has declared in Ecclesiastes 1:4.

. He left out the part about those being resurrected at the same time to damnation, probably as a sign of respect to those faithful.

That is forcing the text to conform to your eschatology, whereas there is 1k years difference btwn "the first resurrection" - the resurrection of life” and the resurrection of damnation. (Jn. 5:29a)

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. (Revelation 20:6)

And when the thousand years are expired...the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. (Revelation 20:7,14)

and at that time thy people... shall be delivered ...the resurrection was only for Daniel's people (the children of Israel;) not all were resurrected (many vs all;) and some were not saved.

First you have all "being resurrected at the same time" but now you have two resurrections.

"Daniel's people" are NT saints, obviously, and he give a general statement, whereas the NT provides more detail. .

Paul's words demonstrate that he seemed to believe he might still be alive at the time of the resurrection.

He does hope for that.

The people of the resurrection never return to earth, but are forever with the Lord in the air, according to Paul's statement. That is not what the text says, and is actually contrary to it, as it dos not say "forever with the Lord in the air," but shall be "forever with the Lord." (1Thes. 4:17) [No purgatory here.]

And if the Lord is going to war at the BoA, then they will be with Him, as Rv. 19 and Jude speaks of, "Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. (Jude. 1:14,15; Revelation 19:14)

Moses spoke of a similar event with the 10,000 saints:

Certainly. We have precursors to the real deal.

Jesus came with his holy angels for the first resurrection (Matt 24:31.)

Then the church missed it, while the 2nd coming was rather ant-climatic! For one, the saints receive their crowns at one event, the judgment seat of Christ, (2Cor. 5:10) which is at the Lord's coming, and awaits the salvation of the last elect, and death of the last to be damned, rather than being an on going event starting in 70 AD. (1Cor. 3:8ff; 2Tim. 4:1,8)

If the Lord has already come then we no longer need to be intent on obeying the Lord, "That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:"(1 Timothy 6:14)

For we are already like Him, having perfect revelation of Him.

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. (1 John 3:2-3)

And the devil has been bound, and there is no more sound of musicians or craftsman in Babylon, (Rv. 18:22; 20:2) etc. none of which honestly corresponds to reality. If anything, the devil is being given more reign on his leash, and is making more perverse music. Even in many churches!

gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. (Revelation 19:19)

All of that is highly symbolic; for example, we see the armies are still in heaven. Many believe the beast was Nero,

Symbolism gives way to reality in fulfillment, and i honestly see it as more than a real stretch to fit the world wide manifest calamities and the profound events that occur at the Lord's coming into 70AD!

>>>Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. (Revelation 20:6)<<<

Those were resurrected around 70 AD, in the exact generation Christ said they would be. That is also the resurrection in Daniel 12.

I cannot find that tenable, for the aforementioned reasons and more. No one has risen from the grave and been sentenced according to their works, which again is an event that awaits until all who would be damned have died. I appreciate the desire to make MT 24, which seems to drive preterism, conform to "this generation" versus the generation that sees that event, or this people, but i presently see it as prophetic utterance in which v. 2 happened in 70AD but was another precursor to the real AoD standing in a yet future temple, wherer he ought not. And the rest fits into that scenario, answering the questions, "what the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? Not simply the "Jewish world."

>>>If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: (2 Timothy 2:12)<<<

All the apostles believed that would happen to them; and I believe that is exactly what happened to them. I know for certain the 12 disciples were given 12 thrones from which to judge the 12 tribes of Israel (Mat 19:28, Luke 22:29-30, Rev 20:4)

Sorry, i cannot accept that either, as this is part of the GWT judgment, in which believers shall also judge angels. Which Jude also speaks of.

Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? (1 Corinthians 6:2)

And which occurs after the devil is bound and loosed, and all the wicked are destroyed:

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them:.... And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened...(Revelation 20:4,12)

It has not happened yet no matter how much it is spiritualized.

>>>And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain. (Zechariah 14:17)<<<

Jerusalem in that context is New Jerusalem: the Church. Frankly to relegate this along with the very extensive and detailed description of Ezekiel of the end times and future temple to simply being symbolic of the church and 70 AD is beyond what is reasonable, and imugns the prophetic nature of Scripture itself.

I see it as more akin to what Jews engage in when explaining the prophecies of the Messiah as not speaking of the Lord Jesus Christ.

out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

And so this is what the Egyptians missed out on by not coming to the church feast of tabernacles. The Catholics would love this, but these those that are left of all the nations after the Lord smites all the people that have fought against Jerusalem. (Zech. 14:12,16) Analogies can be made but for me this speaks too clearly literal and as a future event.

Those of Roman's 11:26 were the remnant, who were all resurrected in 70 AD (Jesus said he lost none, but the son of perdition.)

No one was bodily resurrected in 70 and crowned already and judging angels, unless we want to sound more like so-called Christian Scientists . Here Rm. 11 is all about God judicially blinding the natural branches, beloved for the father's sake despite being enemies of the "Israel of God," believers, until the fulness of the Gentiles be entered in, after which the curse is removed and all Israel, both the believing natural branches and the Gentile believers, shall be saved.

The temple of Ezekiel has generated many different interpretations; but I doubt anyone really understands the prophecy. I personally believe it references, in part, the specs of the original temple (which Israel was too impoverished to rebuild to spec;)

The blueprint is said to be different, and it is far to extensive and literally detailed to simply be spiritualized as all referring to the church.

>>>Then comes the end, when the devil is loosed, and those who in heart did not want Christ to rule over them will fight against the Lord and the camp of the saints, and shall be toasted. (Rv. 20:7-9)<<<

LOL! Something like that, but I don't consider it the end, but a new beginning where everyone lives happily ever after, from one generation to the next.

No laughing matter really, while with the preterist hermeneutic it is hard to say anything can speak of the beginning or the end after 70AD. If this here is allowed to be seen as a yet future event, then that which it is tied to honestly is also.

Have a God night.

>>>First you have all "being resurrected at the same time" but now you have two resurrections.<<<

I believe in two resurrections: one in AD 70 (the first resurrection,) and another after Satan is defeated (the "final" judgement.)

The three passages you quoted, were Rev 20:6 (the first resurrection,) Daniel 12:1-2 (also the first resurrection,) and Rev 2-:14 (the second resurrection.) I have not wavered from that belief in a very long time. So, if I wrote anything differently, it was an accident.

>>>"Daniel's people" are NT saints, obviously, and he give a general statement, whereas the NT provides more detail.<<<

I think I understand you. Just in case, let me say this. I believe the first resurrection was all Israel (as in Daniel,) and was described, in one manner or another, by Daniel, and by every NT author, including John in the Revelation. For example, when Peter wrote this:

"But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men … But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness." (2 Pet 3:7, 10-13 KJV)

I believe he was writing about the destruction of Jerusalem by the Roman armies, and the first resurrection. While I banter around the "new heaven and new earth" terms from time to time to see what people come up with; I believe they are mere indicators or imagery of a new age, which occurred in 70 AD with the destruction of Mosaic law and its supporting structures: Jerusalem and greater Israel.

Philip

>>>That is not what the text says, and is actually contrary to it, as it dos not say "forever with the Lord in the air," but shall be "forever with the Lord." (1Thes. 4:17) <<<

There is a possibility I am reading too much into it. But this is why I came up with my interpretation, so you will understand. This is the Greek number for "so", as in:

"and <2532> so <3779> shall we <2071> ever <3842> be <2071> with <4862> the Lord <2962>."

(3779) hoo’-to; or (before a vowel) ou[twv, hoo’-toce; adverb from (3778) (ou=tov); in this way (referring to what precedes or follows): — after that, after (in) this manner, as, even (so), for all that, like (-wise), no more, on this fashion (-wise), so (in like manner), thus, what.

It was the Greek word used in this verse:

"For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." (Mat 12:40)

In this verse, the same Greek word is used for the word, "likewise:"

"But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them." (Mat 17:12)

Here it is used for the word "thus:"

"But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be." (Matt 26:54)

It was also the Greek word used in these verses, and in many, many more, all of similar meaning:

"Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets." (Mat 7:12)

"And when the devil was cast out, the dumb spake: and the multitudes marvelled, saying, It was never so seen in Israel." (Mat 9:33)

"As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world." (Mat 13:40)

"For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." (Mat 23:37)

I think I have a pretty good case, but I am no Greek expert. Maybe a Greek expert will come along and steer me in the right direction.

[No purgatory here.]

LOL! Clever. I don't know exactly how it fits, but it is still clever.

Philip

>>>And if the Lord is going to war at the BoA, then they will be with Him, as Rv. 19 and Jude speaks of, "Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. (Jude. 1:14,15; Revelation 19:14)<<<

I am fairly well convinced that the Revelation reference is referring to the destruction of Jerusalem and related matters, such as the war against the early Christ saints.

The Jude reference has no context, to speak of (that is, no book of Enoch;) but I do not believe it is referring to the same thing as Rev 19:14. Rather, I thing it is referring to this:

"And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years." (Rev 20:4)

"To execute upon them the judgment written: this honour have all his saints. Praise ye the Lord." (Ps 149:9 KJV)

"Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?" (1 Cor 6:2 KJV)

So, the saints judge the world. I don't recall them "fighting" any battles. But I have never researched that possibility. I don’t believe those are those saints in Rev 19:14, if the traditional interpretation of them fighting a battle is correct. But the fact that they are clothed in the symbols of the "righteousness of saints" makes it worth keeping all options open.

There is another possibility, and that is the Lord and his "army" are not in an actual war, but only judging and ruling, as in "ruling with a rod of iron." The sword does come out of his mouth.

One day maybe I will come up with something that fits.

Philip

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