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So, do the words “tormented forever and ever” mean what it says, or should it be understood symbolically? if so, why?

The bible was not written in english. There are some posts above that touch on the meanings in the original language. Blueletterbible and biblehub.com also give some wonderful clarity on the language and the meaning of words.

There are many clear meanings one can glean from the writings in Revelation, but once one sees the churches as literal lampstands, they may be missing the deeper point of the scripture.

The deep point regarding the fate of the lost is that they do not receive eternal life in the presence of God, hence they are removed from the saved, and they will regret their choice.

To suggest that a person who reached the age of accountability, and was never taught about Christ before dying, is going to spend literal “time without end” in conscious torture does not fit with the personality of the God of the bible. Even in the OT time before Christ, if he was not pleased, people were simply destroyed, not tortured. Torturing is what despots do.

Sorry, it just does. But that is not the personality of the God of the bible in all his dealings with man. His wrath means death. I would that nobody comes to Jesus just because they are scared to death of what happens if they don’t. Rather, my God gives us a fair choice. Eternal life with him or the ecclesiastes life of “eat and drink and enjoy the fruits of your labor, and then you die.” The fate of animals and the pure natural man.

Our topic is not about the NATURE of the punishment, the topic is about the LENGTH of the punishment. We'll talk about the nature of the punishment later. Let's talk about the length first.

So, you seem to be telling me that the words "forever and ever" have a different meaning or nuance in the Greek.

OK, I'm all ears.

Here is the Greek standard words of Revelation 20:10:

καὶ ὁ διάβολος ὁ πλανῶν αὐτοὺς ἐβλήθη εἰς τὴν λίμνην τοῦ πυρὸς καὶ θείου, ὅπου καὶ τὸ θηρίον καὶ ὁ ψευδοπροφήτης, καὶ βασανισθήσονται ἡμέρας καὶ νυκτὸς εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας τῶν αἰώνων.

How should the words: εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας τῶν αἰώνων. be correctly translated or understood in English?

The Bible states very clearly that most people in history are NOT among the elect.

It would be a good exercise to find the verses which say this, just so we are clear.

Nowhere does the Bible say almost everyone is going to heaven.

We must get OUR IDEA OF JUSTICE, OUR IMPERFECT HUMAN IDEAS OF JUSTICE, out of our head, and rely on God’s Word, the Bible to tell us what is just and what is not. Regardless of how we “feel” or “think”. Justice is not what people say it is, justice is what God reveals in his Word.

Those who are saved are predestined by God to be saved from before the womb.

It would be a great exercise to do a textual search of the Bible for words like preordain, foundation of the world, etc., which will find the appropriate verses.

It’s hard for humans - especially Americans - to accept predestination. Because we think - immediately - (crying like babies) it’s not fair ! It’s not fair ! It’s stacked against us !

But we’re thinking from God’s viewpoint when we whine like that - but we are not God and should not be so presumptive as to try to think about our lives as though we were God. We should think from OUR viewpoint. WE DO NOT KNOW the future. When you don’t know, you TRY. If your boat is sinking - you try to survive. You don’t know, rescue could come in 5 minutes and you’re saved. We can’t have a “fatalistic” attitude because we do not know the future. As we read the Word of God we should be encouraged - because it clearly says we should be ! It exhorts the reader to live a good Christian life.

None of this is difficult to understand.

But people want a) a guarantee of salvation for themselves b) to be able to keep on sinning their same old sins.

People want to slip back into say, adultery. But what if some hot babe comes along and throws herself at me ??? I won’t be able to help myself !!!! I need a Christian theology that will let me commit that future, pre-meditated sin and allow me a loophole.

Too bad for such a person - if a person is already imagining sinning in the future instead of aiming to “put off the old man” and repent and resolve to sin no more - especially sins they KNOW they committed in the past, then they’re not saved at that point. Because when they’re saved they will realize they must completely turn over their life to Christ because they are “bought with a price”.

It’s scary - I know. I wondered - how could I be sure I would not commit sins that had become part of who I was ???

And remember, according to the bible the road is narrow, meaning most people will not be saved, meaning the fate of the lost is the default condition for most of humanity. It implies that God continues to allow people to be born by the billions, knowing full well that most of them will not be saved. And if the eternal suffering message is true, this makes Him kinda creepy and sadistic.

No, it doesn't. In fact, the opposite is true: if God wants nothing but bliss and happiness for us, then why did He allow us to suffer on Earth (sometimes grievously--think of rape, torture, maimimg, etc.), even temporarily? Would you take your own child's hand and hold it to a burning stove, on the basis that "it was only temporary, and the pain will not last forever, and I have plenty of medicines and treatments to cure it"? I hope not...

No... you're missing the whole point: we're on Earth (conceived, born, live) for a REASON. We're here to learn to CHOOSE GOD FREELY. There is no such thing as God "forcing us to choose Him freely". For you to assume that God will "shovel us all into Heaven, wholesale" (even Satan and the demons!) is for you to assume one of three things:

1) God has created us as puppets, without free will (i.e. no evil choices will make any difference, in the end--we are incapable of choosing to reject Him), and every last law He gives us (and every punishment He exacts for violating that law) is a lie... since He's claiming that we're worthy of punishment for something which is His fault! In option #1, God is a puppet-master and a liar.

2) God is poised to force untold millions of free creatures to live eternally with Him, whether they want to do so or not. Don't you see? Those who do not love God would find Heaven to be more of a torment than Hell! If I shackle you to the person whom you most despise/dislike/hate in the world, would you be pleased? Would you enjoy an eternity of that? How much worse, when the infinite God cannot possibly be ignored or blocked out, and you were forced to sing His praises forever? In option #2, God is the equivalent of a slave-master and a rapist--forcing Himself on countless unwilling children.

3) God will "brainwash" us (or "reprogram" us, if you prefer) to be pleased with loving Him and praising Him forever. In option #3, God is enacting a farce which is a mere variation of #1.

Think this through! If hell is not real--if evil has no lasting consequence--then freedom is a lie, and love (which is the free choice to pursue the beloved's best good) cannot exist. There is only a puppet show... and a macabre one, at that.