Pope: Half-hearted Catholics aren't really Catholics at all

cns ^ | June 5, 2014 | Cindy Wooden

[NYer]

VATICAN CITY (CNS) -- Those who insist others pray and believe exactly like they do, those who have alternatives to every church teaching and benefactors who use the church as a cover for business connections may call themselves Catholics, but they have one foot out the door, Pope Francis said.

"Many people say they belong to the church," but in reality have "only one foot inside," the pope said June 5 at the morning Mass in the chapel of his residence.

(CNS/Paul Haring)

"For these people, the church is not home," but is a place they use as a rental property, he said, according to Vatican Radio.

Pope Francis reflected on the day's Gospel reading, John 17:20-26, and Jesus' prayer that there would be unity, not divisions and conflict, among his disciples. There are three groups of people who call themselves Catholic, but are not really, the pope said. Apologizing for making up words, he labeled the three groups: "uniformists," "alternativists" and "businessists."

The first group, he said, believe that everyone in the church should be just like them. "They are rigid! They do not have that freedom the Holy Spirit gives," and they confuse what Jesus preached with their "own doctrine of uniformity."

"Jesus never wanted the church to be so rigid," Pope Francis said. Such people "call themselves Catholics, but their rigid attitude distances them from the church."

The second group, those with alternative teachings and doctrines, "has a partial belonging to the church. These, too, have one foot outside the church," he said. "They rent the church," not recognizing that its teaching is based on the preaching of Jesus and the apostolic tradition.

Members of the third group "call themselves Christians but don't enter into the heart of the church," they use the church "for personal profit," the pope said. "We have all seen them in parish or diocesan communities and religious congregations; they are some of the benefactors of the church."

"They strut around proud of being benefactors, but in the end, under the table, make their deals," he said.

Pope Francis said the church is made up of people with a variety of differences and gifts, and if one wants to belong to it, he or she must be motivated by love and enter with "your whole heart."

Being open to the Spirit, who fosters harmony in diversity, he said, brings "docility," which is "the virtue that saves us" from entering the church half-heartedly.

[Iscool]

Also, the early Protestants, including Luther believed in the perpetual virginity of Mary.

The early Protestants were Catholics who left that religion i pursuit of the truth of the scriptures...Of course it would take a while for them to purge all the Catholic falsities out of their systems...

I am inclined to agree with those who declare that ‘brothers’ really mean ‘cousins’ here, for Holy Writ and the Jews always call cousins brothers.”

But the Greeks had a far more expanded language and they knew the difference between brothers and cousins and even had words for them...That's why we see it in the Greek scriptures...

[dsc]

“I have to assume that your only interest in this political site, is the religion section.”

And you have to assume that because...you don’t know how to check and see?

[ReformationFan]

Probably because there are millions of Protestant denominations and sects as well as numerous independent and nondenominational churches including many who do not acknowledge that they are Protestant in the first place.

[cothrige]

But Greek does have words for brother, cousin, uncle and aunt. God chose to inspire the use of the Greek word for brothers. Take it up with Him.

You are right, and of course these were the Lord's brothers and sisters. However, they were not the Blessed Virgin's children. The reality that many miss is that, from the earliest history of the Church, it has been held that St. Joseph was an aged widower who married the Blessed Virgin, at the call of God, in order to protect her. He already had children of his own, and these are the brothers and sisters of the Lord because they are are the children of his earthly father. They may also be his cousins, as some maintain, but that is not why they are called his brothers and sisters.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“You are right, and of course these were the Lord’s brothers and sisters. However, they were not the Blessed Virgin’s children. The reality that many miss is that, from the earliest history of the Church, it has been held that St. Joseph was an aged widower who married the Blessed Virgin, at the call of God, in order to protect her. He already had children of his own, and these are the brothers and sisters of the Lord because they are are the children of his earthly father. They may also be his cousins, as some maintain, but that is not why they are called his brothers and sisters”

An interesting story, but unsupported in Scripture and contradicted by Scripture.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you so much for sharing your insights, dearest sister in Christ!

If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. - John 8:36

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and testimony, dear brother in Christ!

Truly, the Church of Ephesus makes me very sad for there is only One Great Commandment - and though they understood and cared for the details, they missed that one, to love the Lord our God with all one's heart, soul and mind (Matt 22:37)

No doubt they also bristled at Romans 14.

[Alamo-Girl]

Voegelin's description fits quite a few churches in the U.S. - but the ones that grow and prosper spiritually, here and abroad, are the ones that preach Christ and Him crucified.

Thank you for all of your wonderful essay-posts, dearest sister in Christ!

[cothrige]

An interesting story, but unsupported in Scripture and contradicted by Scripture.

Could you share where it is contradicted in scripture? I find that suggestion rather interesting, and I have never come across such a text.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

Mary Had two or more children:

Prophetic Fulfillment Concerning Messiah - Messaiah was prophecied to have a mother to have children. Not step-children. This is sufficient for any objective observer, who has no axe to grind.

Messianic Psalm 68, Christ refers to His mothers children. "I am a foreigner to my own family, a stranger to my own mother’s children;"

Commandments for children If Mary and Joseph stopped trying purposefully after one child, they were disobedient to the command given to married couples.

Genesis 1:28 - God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground."

Commandments for sex - Married couples are commanded to have sex, regularly. If Mary and Joseph did not have sex after the birth of Christ, they were disobedient. Without birth control, children are the normal course of events. Unless you will argue that Mary was barren after the first pregnancy.

I Corinthians 7:5 "Do not deprive each other except perhaps by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control."

I will be traveling today. No time for follow-up. I am pinging my friend Daniel who may have additional insight to add, if he chooses. Blessings.

[Trapped Behind Enemy Lines]

I think it is wrong to twist the meaning of words written in the Bible. Just as wrong as what the liberals always do with our US Constitution.

I first learned that Jesus had brothers and sisters in a Bible study class taught by a CATHOLIC priest. To this day I am grateful that the priest taught the Bible as at is written and did not try to twist or change things in order to satisfy any doctrines or dogmas.

[daniel1212]

St. Joseph was an aged widower who married the Blessed Virgin, at the call of God, in order to protect her. He already had children of his own, and these are the brothers and sisters of the Lord

Could you share where it is contradicted in scripture? I find that suggestion rather interesting, and I have never come across such a text.

If "brothers" refers to Joseph's sons by an earlier marriage, not Jesus but Joseph's firstborn would have been legal heir to David's throne. The second theory — that "brothers" refers to sons of a sister of Mary also name "Mary" — faces the unlikelihood of two sisters having the same name. — D. A. Carson, Matthew in The Expositor's Bible Commentary, volume 8 (Zondervan, 1984).

In addition, contrary to the perpetual virginity of Mary,

• Marriage is described as cleaving" and becoming one. (Gn. 2:24; Mt. 19:4-6)

• Israel knew nothing of a marriage that was not consummated between two persons who could procreate, nor does the NT.

• Under the New Covenant celibacy is only advocated in the context of being single. (Mt. 19:10-12; 1Cor. 7:8)

• Paul actually instructs the married to have sexual relations, and restricts abstinence in marriage to only a period of fasting, and then to come together again. (1Cor. 7:3-5)

•Thus a marriage in which their is no "cleaving" would be a very notable, and as far as Catholicism is concerned, very important. Yet while the Holy Spirit characteristically records extraordinary exceptions to the norm among its characters, from the age of Methuselah to the strength of Samson to the number of toes of Goliath, to the diet of John the Baptist, to the supernatural transport of Phillip, to the signs of an apostle, to the singleness of Paul and Barnabas, and uncharacteristic duplicity of Peter, to the prolonged celibacy of Anna, to the sinlessness of Christ, etc., He says nothing about Mary being a perpetual virgin. And instead what He does teach weighs toward the norm.

• Except in rare instances "heōs" ("And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS." Matthew 1:25) indicates a terminus and a change, or allowing for that..

• Instead of any teaching that Mary was a perpetual virgin, ,we have many texts which refer to Mary having other children. (Mat_12:46,48, Mat_27:56; Mar_15:40,47, Mar_16:1; Luk_24:10; Joh_19:25; Gal_1:19) Likewise Psalms 69:8 states, "I am become a stranger unto my brethren, and an alien unto my mother's children." Adelphos* (brethren) often refers to biological siblings, and while it need not do so, there is no justification for excluding it as meaning so.

Jason Engwer states , Luke uses the word "supposedly" to describe Jesus' relationship with Joseph (Luke 3:23), but doesn't use any such terminology to describe Jesus' relationship with His brothers and sisters, but repeatedly chooses the term "brother" to describe Jesus' siblings, even though he understood the difference between a "relative" and a "brother", even distinguishing between the two within a single sentence. (Luke 21:16).

• There is simply no need for Mary to be a perpetual virgin, unless martial relations are sinful or necessarily denoting inferior virtue, as some CFs erroneously held , contra. Heb. 13:4)

Basil stated that the view that Mary had other children after Jesus "was widely held and, though not accepted by himself, was not incompatible with orthodoxy" (J.N.D. Kelly, Early Christian Doctrines [San Francisco, California: HarperCollins Publishers, 1978], p. 495).

As Engwer also notes, Irenaeus refers to Mary giving birth to Jesus when she was "as yet a virgin" (Against Heresies, 3:21:10). Irenaeus compares Mary's being a virgin at the time of Jesus' birth to the ground being "as yet virgin" before it was tilled by mankind. The ground thereafter ceased to be virgin, according to Irenaeus, when it was tilled. The implication is that Mary also ceased to be a virgin. Elsewhere, Irenaeus writes:

"To this effect they testify, saying, that before Joseph had come together with Mary, while she therefore remained in virginity, 'she was found with child of the Holy Ghost;'" (Against Heresies, 3:21:4)

Tertullian comments:

Tertullian: "...indeed it was a virgin, about to marry once for all after her delivery, who gave birth to Christ, in order that each title of sanctity might be fulfilled in Christ's parentage, by means of a mother who was both virgin, and wife of one husband." (On Monogamy, 8)

To marry after she brought forth Christ denotes consummation, the formal expression of marriage, (Mt. 19:5) as it is certain Joseph took Mary to wife before the Lord was born, but "knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son." (Mt. 1:24,25) And in so doing Tertullian sees Mary as representative of both ideals, of continence and monogamy.

[Trapped Behind Enemy Lines]

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

It is better to stick to Scripture, stick to the facts, and stick to history, rather than making things up out of whole cloth and then passing them off as doctrine or dogma.

The Bible mentions that Mary was married to Joseph. The Bible mentions that Jesus had brothers and sisters. It is not unreasonable to conclude that Mary and Joseph had a happy marriage and that other children followed Jesus’s birth.

On the point of celibacy. There is absolutely no requirement in the Bible whatsoever that priests must be celibate. To the contrary, priests were married men in the Bible. Further, according to Timothy 3:2,

“A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach.”

[daniel1212]

The Kennedys, sad to say, were CINOs, Catholics in name only. They, nor Pelosi, etc. represent true Catholicism.

By what one believes is shown by what one does, and Rome treated and treats such as members in life and in death, as Kennedy examples. The pope even thanked him for his prayers, and offered no reproof to this impenitent soul, and gave him an apostolic blessing, and a church funeral, thus teaching others how Rome sees such.

[Trapped Behind Enemy Lines]

Rose Kennedy was certainly the exception to this otherwise thoroughly disgusting clan.

[Salvation]

Do you know if he re-converted on his death bed and was given the Sacrament of the Anointing of the Sick?

I don’t — perhaps that happened, and so I can’t really judge. Can you?

[daniel1212]

Also not true. But you will be much happier in heaven for having received Communion on your tongue.

Really? Nothing like adding to the Scriptures. Where do you see the Lord placing bread and wine into the mouths of the apostles, or even the apostles even distributing bread and wine as part of their ordained function?

And this simply cannot be reconciled with 1Cor. 11:17-34 in which the Lord's death is shown by the sharing of a communal meal, recognizing each other as members of the body for which Christ died.

[daniel1212]

You can pretend that we don’t collect voting data and have been for over a 100 years, and that all the billions of dollars of campaigns and strategies and voting studies, and history books and analysis based on the data is all an illusion, but why? Do you think that blacks and homosexuals and Jews and atheists and Catholics are actually voting pro-liferepublican?

You are forgetting the rules of RC apologetics.

1. Rome determines reality: The only Divine evidence to us of what was primitive is the witness and voice of the Church at this hour. — Most Rev. Dr. Henry Edward Cardinal Manning, pp. 228

2. Evidence must conform to Roman claims: Catholic doctrine, as authoritatively proposed by the Church, should be held as the supreme law;..Hence it follows that all interpretation is foolish and false which either makes the sacred writers disagree one with another, or is opposed to the doctrine of the Church. (Providentissimus Deus; http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/leo_xiii/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_18111893_providentissimus-deus_en.html)

3. Consistent with this, RCs are not to engage in objective examination of evidence in order to ascertain the veracity of RC teaching: "The intolerance of the Church toward error, the natural position of one who is the custodian of truth, her only reasonable attitude makes her forbid her children to to read or to listen to heretical controversy, or to endeavor to discover religious truths by examining both sides of the question. This places the Catholic in a position whereby he must stand aloof from all manner of doctrinal teaching other than that delivered by his Church through her accredited ministers." - (John H. Stapleton, Explanation of Catholic Morals Chapters , XXII)

4. Which rejection of objectivity carries over into evidence that impugns Rome, all of which must be dismissed by RCs as the work of anti-Catholic bigots or liberal Catholics, regardless of evidence of objectivity by the authors, and the weight evidence to the veracity of their claims. However, RCs never are guilty of anti-Protestant bigotry or attacking Prots first.

5. All liberal RCs must be disallowed as being RCs, despite the fact that Rome treats them as members in life and in death.

[daniel1212]

This brings up rule #6 (see 158 above):

Use a definition of Protestant that is so wide that you can drive a Unitarian Scientology Swedenborgian sodomite Episcopalian 747 thru it, while attacking SS as being to blame for liberalism, ignoring that those who most strongly hold to the supremacy of Scripture as the wholly inspired and assured word of God are much more unified in key conservative beliefs than the fruit of Rome, even surpassing weekly mass goers.

[Trapped Behind Enemy Lines]

Fortunately not all Catholics are mindless drones marching in lock step. Some of us do study history and read the Bible. For me personally, Scripture, history, and the facts trump dogma and doctrine.