The Hermeneutic of...Oh I Give Up.

Creative Minority Report ^ | 07/11/14 | Patrick Archbold

[Legatus]

Some Papal Quotes that somehow and in some way beyond my meager intellect are in continuity with each other, or something.

First Quote

Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441. ex cathedra (infallibly defined):
“The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has persevered within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.” http://www.ewtn.com/library/COUNCILS/FLORENCE.HTM#4

Second Quote

“I’m not interested in converting Evangelicals to Catholicism. I want people to find Jesus in their own community. There are so many doctrines we will never agree on. Let’s not spend our time on those. Rather, let’s be about showing the love of Jesus.” --Pope Francis 2014

Yeah. Umm. So. Discuss. Or something.

Bonus Quotes for discussion purposes.

Pope PIUS IX, the Holy Office-- THE SYLLABUS OF ERRORS CONDEMNED :
15. Every man is free to embrace and profess that religion which, guided by the light of reason, he shall consider true. --condemned Allocution "Maxima quidem," June 9, 1862; Damnatio "Multiplices inter," June 10, 1851.
16. Man may, in the observance of any religion whatever, find the way of eternal salvation, and arrive at eternal salvation. --condemned Encyclical "Qui pluribus," Nov. 9, 1846.
17. Good hope at least is to be entertained of the eternal salvation of all those who are not at all in the true Church of Christ. -- condemned
Encyclical "Quanto conficiamur," Aug. 10, 1863, etc.

18. Protestantism is nothing more than another form of the same true Christian religion, in which form it is given to please God equally as in the Catholic Church. --condemned Encyclical "Noscitis," Dec. 8, 1849.
http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9syll.htm
ll.htm

[Legatus]

Quite pharisaical...

I call shenanigans. In what way is what I believe even remotely Pharisaical?

[DariusBane]

Yup. I judge lots of people. Spent a lot of time talking about that. So you confuse me.

[CynicalBear]

The only reason I included you in the ping is that I was responding to a ping to you. It wasn’t you I was addressing but thought you would want to see the response.

[DariusBane]

Cool! Thank you!

[CynicalBear]

You were the one who was intimating that more was necessary for salvation other than belief in Christ. Here’s you statement.

>>people outside of the Church seem to believe almost everything necessary, but not all of it.<<

“almost everything necessary, but not all of it”? I pointed out that Paul distinctly and succinctly answered “believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved”. Now, what more is needed that prompted your “but not all of it” comment?

[Lee N. Field]

Your pope guy done pulled the rug out from under you.

What's the FR Catholic Coterie going to do, if they can't subvert Protestants?

(It's the particular group that he's making lovey-lovey noises at, that boggles my mind.)

[Iscool]

Believing that only those who enter through the narrow gate abide with God in Heaven isn't really a stretch, that's why I became Catholic in the first place, because I didn't want to spend eternity in hell with the rest of the semi-believers.

Tell me again how large the Catholic religion is...And don't forget it is attempting to grow even larger with its ecumenical outreach and even drawing closer to its muzlim brothers...

You left out part of the verse you were trying to quote...

Mat_7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Apparently 'a few' to a Catholic is a few billion...I'm pretty sure that a 'few who find it' doesn't refer to billions of Catholics and muzlims...

[Iscool]

Now we have a pope who makes statements that sound like I was fine where I was after all. That confuses and annoys me.

Why would you trust the word of any man when you have the words of God at your beck and call???

[Iscool]

We KNOW we can't be saved by belief alone. We must strive for Christ like perfection and pray for the mercy of God.

You KNOW that eh??? How do you reconcile that position with this scripture???

Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

[ebb tide]

Apparently 'a few' to a Catholic is a few billion...I'm pretty sure that a 'few who find it' doesn't refer to billions of Catholics and muzlims...

Who has said there aren't many Catholics who could be in Hell?

Why you lumped mooselimbs with Catholics is beyond me.

[Iscool]

And then fall for just the opposite!!! Yet they will deny their duplicity while vociferously proclaiming the Catholic Church never changes it's doctrine.

Isn't that amazing...One of their popes is flat out lying...One claims it came right from God that Protestants can't be saved...The other says (God was wrong or that pope lied) by saying 'yes they can'...

You'd think some of them would recognize the fakery that is going on...

[Mrs. Don-o]

Christ's Church is not just "some organization."

Once again, I urge you not to fall for a non-Biblical, impossibly false dichotomy of "Christ without the Church," "Christ divorced from the Church," "Christ vs the Church."

Of course the word "Church" can be used in many senses: probably dozens of senses, including the invisible (comprising also the saints who have passed on before us), including the secret (as we pray in the Liturgy, "those whose Faith is known to You alone"), including the ecclesiastical, the historical, the sacramental, the creedal, the sociological, even the architectural (!)

But the most basic sense, I think, would be "those who are being incorporated into Christ."

Certainly if you are a baptized believer, you --- I don't say just Catholics, but YOU, baptized believer-guy --- are a member of the Church.

However you want to say it, to be dismissive of the Church is to be dismissive of His Body.

[ebb tide]

>>John 20<<

>>[21] He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. [22] When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. [23] Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.<<

Who has forgiven your sins, if you have any?

[Iscool]

digging up and posting very old or mistaken doctrinal statements from any church (especially those that were anti-Biblical) is of course embarrassing, at least from the perspective of a historian of church history. But, nobody should believe those old teachings are either genuinely Christian or are taught by (in this example) the Roman Catholic Church today.

Sorry Charley but yours is the religion that says it doesn't err...Just admitting that your religion erred in the past is a no-no for you guys...

[Iscool]

What are we to believe about Christ, everything except that he established a Church and not a library?

That's goofy...Of course God established a library with the instructions in it on how to run his church...And that's church, not Church...

If a bible never existed, how many followers do you think would become Catholic???

[ebb tide]

One pope spoke ex cathedra; the other does not speak ex cathedra. As a matter of fact all post VC II pope have refused to speak ex cathedra.

[jocon307]

Well, I don’t know, I pretty much give up whenever I see that word.

Also, when a recipe calls for “oil”.

Like, you need to narrow that down for me!

[ebb tide]

How come Luther changed the Bible to his own liking? Did he know better than the Holy Ghost?

[CynicalBear]

>> Once again, I urge you not to fall for a non-Biblical, impossibly false dichotomy of "Christ without the Church," "Christ divorced from the Church," "Christ vs the Church."<<

Not sure where you got that one from. First off, the term “church” as Catholics would like us to envision it does not and did not exist during the life of the apostles. Second, the body of Christ is NOT the Catholic Church but consists of all true believers who trust in Him alone. The Catholic Church is a man made organization that seems now to be falling apart at the seems or attempting to establish a “one world religion” incorporating all beliefs.

>> Certainly if you are a baptized believer, you --- I don't say just Catholics, but YOU, baptized believer-guy --- are a member of the Church.<<

Not a member of the “church”. A part of the assembly of believers. Catholics need to trash the concept of the “church” that has been perpetuated to wrest control over the masses.

>> However you want to say it, to be dismissive of the Church is to be dismissive of His Body.<<

Not if you’re talking about any organization that today calls itself a “church”. The term “church” has been so corrupted it holds no meaning in terms of the body of Christ.

[ebb tide]

Charley is no spokesman for the Catholic Church. The Popes, quoted ex cathedra, are.