Posted on 11/13/2017 5:19:57 PM PST by marshmallow
VATICAN CITY (AP) — Pope Francis on Saturday reaffirmed the "primacy" of using one's conscience to navigate tough moral questions in his first comments since he was publicly accused of spreading heresy by emphasizing conscience over hard and fast Catholic rules.
Francis issued a video message to a conference organized by Italian bishops on his controversial 2016 document on family life, "The Joy of Love." The document has badly divided the Catholic Church, with some commentators warning that it risked creating a schism given its opening to divorced and civilly remarried Catholics.
Francis told the conference that priests must inform Catholic consciences "but not replace them." And he stressed the distinction between one's conscience — where God reveals himself — and one's ego that thinks it can do as it pleases.
"The contemporary world risks confusing the primacy of conscience, which must always be respected, with the exclusive autonomy of an individual with respect to his or her relations," Francis said.
Francis reaffirmed the centrality of "The Joy of Love" as the church's guide to Catholic couples today trying to navigate the ups and downs of complicated family situations.
When it was released in April 2016, "The Joy of Love" immediately sparked controversy because it cautiously opened the door to letting civilly remarried Catholics receive Communion.
Church teaching holds that unless these Catholics obtain an annulment — a church decree declaring their first marriage invalid — they cannot receive the sacraments since they are seen as committing adultery in the eyes of the church.
(Excerpt) Read more at yahoo.com ...
“My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me.”—1 Corinthians 4:4
Mission accomplished.
"And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient".
Conscience did not stop Hitler and his Nazi thugs from killing millions of innocent Jews, non-Aryans and anti-Nazis. Conscience did not prevent Stalin and Mao from killing millions of innocent people. Pro-abortion folks aren't losing any sleep over the killing of millions of unborn babies. So how does that "let your conscience be your guide" theology work with reprobates and demon possessed people? Right- it doesn't.
“Using one’s conscience” without the Properly Formed qualification is Protestant and relative.
Which shows conscience is essential, if it is not defiled, for it is a sound conscience which God uses to guide those without His word, and to convict them of violating what is right, and thus for their need for the Savior. If those in Rm 1 had obeyed the light they had via conscience they would have come to the Light, even Christ. Thus the problem is a defiled conscience.
For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;) (Romans 2:14-15)
But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ. Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend. (1 Corinthians 8:12-13)
And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void of offence toward God, and toward men. (Acts 24:16)
And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. (John 8:9)
Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck: (1 Timothy 1:19)
Which is essentially a meaning-less statement since the term "Protestant" as typically used by Catholics is so broad as to be meaningless in this context, since it includes everything from the ultraconservative scholastical Puritans - who definitely believed in a Scripture- formed conscience as opposed to doing what seems right otherwise - to Unitarianism with its rejection of any supreme standard on Truth.
Rather than the easy believism Catholics (with a church half full of liberal members) associates with sola fide, in Puritan Protestantism there was often a tendency to make the way to the cross too narrow, perhaps in reaction against the Antinomian controversy, as described in an account (http://www.the-highway.com/Early_American_Bauckham.html) of Puritans during the early American period:
“They had, like most preachers of the Gospel, a certain difficulty in determining what we might call the ‘conversion level’, the level of difficulty above which the preacher may be said to be erecting barriers to the Gospel and below which he may be said to be encouraging men to enter too easily into a mere delusion of salvation. Contemporary critics, however, agree that the New England pastors set the level high. Nathaniel Ward, who was step-son to Richard Rogers and a distinguished Puritan preacher himself, is recorded as responding to Thomas Hooker’s sermons on preparation for receiving Christ in conversion with, ‘Mr. Hooker, you make as good Christians before men are in Christ as ever they are after’, and wishing, ‘Would I were but as good a Christian now as you make men while they are preparing for Christ.’”
And reverence of God and His word by the Spirit with more than a basic concurrence on core beliefs enabled this testimony by a noted Catholic, the famous French Catholic political thinker and historian, Alexis de Tocqueville (1805-1859):
The sects that exist in the United States are innumerable. They all differ in respect to the worship which is due to the Creator; but they all agree in respect to the duties which are due from man to man. Each sect adores the Deity in its own peculiar manner, but all sects preach the same moral law in the name of God...Moreover, all the sects of the United States are comprised within the great unity of Christianity, and Christian morality is everywhere the same...
n the United States the sovereign authority is religious, and consequently hypocrisy must be common; but there is no country in the whole world in which the Christian religion retains a greater influence over the souls of men than in America, and there can be no greater proof of its utility, and of its conformity to human nature, than that its influence is most powerfully felt over the most enlightened and free nation of the earth...
The Americans combine the notions of Christianity and of liberty so intimately in their minds, that it is impossible to make them conceive the one without the other; and with them this conviction does not spring from that barren traditionary faith which seems to vegetate in the soul rather than to live... Thus religious zeal is perpetually warmed in the United States by the fires of patriotism. These men do not act exclusively from a consideration of a future life; eternity is only one motive of their devotion to the cause. If you converse with these missionaries of Christian civilization, you will be surprised to hear them speak so often of the goods of this world, and to meet a politician where you expected to find a priest. (Democracy in America, [New York: A. S. Barnes & Co., 1851), pp. 331, 332, 335, 336-7, 337; http://xroads.virginia.edu/~HYPER/DETOC/religion/ch1_17.htm)
And Benjamin Franklin also advertised,
And the Divine Being seems to have manifested His approbation of the mutual forbearance and kindness by which the different sects treat each other, and by the remarkable prosperity with which He has been please to favor the whole country. (Benjamin Franklin, "Information to those who would Remove to America" In Franklin, Benjamin. The Bagatelles from Passy. Ed. Lopez, Claude A. New York: Eakins Press. 1967; http://mith.umd.edu//eada/html/display.php?docs=franklin_bagatelle4.xml. Also, John Gould Curtis, American history told by contemporaries .... Volume 3, p. 26)
Not a word-for-word translation as the word for conscience is not in the text, though the use of it is, as not being aware of any offense threby, yet not as if his conscience was insensible or was to be dispensed with, but contextually it refers to the final judgment on his work,
F.B Myers states,
For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord. Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God. (1 Corinthians 4:4-5)
Paul was not aware that he had violated his Master’s confidence, but he could not be content till he had heard the Master’s verdict on his life-work. Notice the four courts of appeal-my own judgment, your judgment, man’s judgment, and Christ’s. The Master will reverse many human judgments, but all will bear witness to the absolute justice of His verdict.
Ratzinger (as Archbishop) taught that “Over the pope as the expression of the binding claim of ecclesiastical authority there still stands one’s own conscience, which must be obeyed before all else, if necessary even against the requirement of ecclesiastical authority.
Conscience confronts [the individual] with a supreme and ultimate tribunal, and one which in the last resort is beyond the claim of external social groups, even of the official church” (Pope Benedict XVI [then Archbishop Joseph Ratzinger], Commentary on the Documents of Vatican II, ed. Vorgrimler, 1968, on Gaudium et spes, part 1,chapter 1.).
As long as one obeys the light he has them more will be given. But conscience cannot be allowed to be supremely determinative of truth, and the is must to form it according to Scriptural teaching.
Edit: “and the is must to form it” is what happens when you edit what you had (after midnight) without fully replacing it with what you wanted. “And the believer is to form it according to Scriptural teaching” is more like it.
From a FRoman, ‘Protestant’ has become as meaningless as ‘racist’ from a leftist.
I wonder...
...how far is the present pope from the 'first' pope?
Acts 10 New International Version (NIV)
1 At Caesarea there was a man named Cornelius, a centurion in what was known as the Italian Regiment. 2 He and all his family were devout and God-fearing; he gave generously to those in need and prayed to God regularly. 3 One day at about three in the afternoon he had a vision. He distinctly saw an angel of God, who came to him and said, “Cornelius!”
4 Cornelius stared at him in fear. “What is it, Lord?” he asked.
The angel answered, “Your prayers and gifts to the poor have come up as a memorial offering before God. 5 Now send men to Joppa to bring back a man named Simon who is called Peter. 6 He is staying with Simon the tanner, whose house is by the sea.”
7 When the angel who spoke to him had gone, Cornelius called two of his servants and a devout soldier who was one of his attendants. 8 He told them everything that had happened and sent them to Joppa.
9 About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. 10 He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. 11 He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12 It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles and birds. 13 Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter . Kill and eat.”
14 “Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”
15 The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”
16 This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.
17 While Peter was wondering about the meaning of the vision, the men sent by Cornelius found out where Simon’s house was and stopped at the gate. 18 They called out, asking if Simon who was known as Peter was staying there.
19 While Peter was still thinking about the vision, the Spirit said to him, “Simon, three[a] men are looking for you. 20 So get up and go downstairs. Do not hesitate to go with them, for I have sent them.”
21 Peter went down and said to the men, “I’m the one you’re looking for. Why have you come?”
22 The men replied, “We have come from Cornelius the centurion. He is a righteous and God-fearing man, who is respected by all the Jewish people. A holy angel told him to ask you to come to his house so that he could hear what you have to say.” 23 Then Peter invited the men into the house to be his guests.
The next day Peter started out with them, and some of the believers from Joppa went along. 24 The following day he arrived in Caesarea. Cornelius was expecting them and had called together his relatives and close friends. 25 As Peter entered the house, Cornelius met him and fell at his feet in reverence. 26 But Peter made him get up. “Stand up,” he said, “I am only a man myself.”
27 While talking with him, Peter went inside and found a large gathering of people. 28 He said to them: “You are well aware that it is against our law for a Jew to associate with or visit a Gentile. But God has shown me that I should not call anyone impure or unclean. 29 So when I was sent for, I came without raising any objection. May I ask why you sent for me?”
30 Cornelius answered: “Three days ago I was in my house praying at this hour, at three in the afternoon. Suddenly a man in shining clothes stood before me 31 and said, ‘Cornelius, God has heard your prayer and remembered your gifts to the poor. 32 Send to Joppa for Simon who is called Peter . He is a guest in the home of Simon the tanner, who lives by the sea.’ 33 So I sent for you immediately, and it was good of you to come. Now we are all here in the presence of God to listen to everything the Lord has commanded you to tell us.”
34 Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism 35 but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right. 36 You know the message God sent to the people of Israel, announcing the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all. 37 You know what has happened throughout the province of Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached— 38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.
39 “We are witnesses of everything he did in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They killed him by hanging him on a cross, 40 but God raised him from the dead on the third day and caused him to be seen. 41 He was not seen by all the people, but by witnesses whom God had already chosen—by us who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead. 42 He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead. 43 All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”
44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. 45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. 46 For they heard them speaking in tongues[b] and praising God.
Then Peter said, 47 “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” 48 So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.
Not NEARLY as much as THIS one!!!
The apostles and elders, your brothers,
To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia:
Greetings.
24 We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. 25 So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul— 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. 28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.
Farewell.
Golly!
What might that BE??
And there seems to be a LOT of folks in OUR government that are all atwitter (word choice intended) over the FACT that Donald Trump has the legal authority to launch atomic weapons.
And the word CATHOLIC is a mighty broad brush as well.
Why isn't Catholicism united and uniform?
Doesn't Rome teach and preach this??
I note he never said the same thing about the authority of scripture. (as does Francis)
I agree.
To me it is all very simple.
- Civil law no longer reflects Catholic (or traditional Christian) beliefs about marriage in ANY country.
- Thus millions of people find themselves at a dead-end when their government allows their spouse to divorce them against their will.
- Pope Benedict was quite correct when he stated that sticking to traditional beliefs on such matters would result in a “smaller, poorer, holier Church”.
- The Cardinals rejected that on delivery. Like any organization they wanted to grow and become bigger, wealthier, more powerful.
- Thus Benedict was shown the door and Francis elected.
- The end goal of this is to attract civilly divorced Catholics back to the collection basket. Those shiny, gleaming new non-denominational Megachurches are filled with divorced ex-Catholics, and they are jealous.
I’ll start getting worked-up over this the day they stop serving Communion to Tim Kaine and Nancy Pelosi.
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