Catechism of the Catholic Church Requires Civil Penalties for Abortion

American Life League ^ | Feb 21, 2003 | Judy Brown

[Onelifetogive]

It was put in their (sic) to demonstrate thier (sic) foolishness

I agree! Their foolishness was in not realizing that Jesus was God!

[It's me]

Yeah, yeah, yeah....

[ArrogantBustard]

John 20:21-23


21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me,
even so send I you.
22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye
the Holy Ghost:
23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye
retain, they are retained.

[Onelifetogive]

No. I am claiming you do not know the sacrament of Reconciliation, where the priest stands in Christ's place, as one of His successors to hear sins confessed.

Peter didn't know about that sacrement either: In Acts 8, he was presented with a perfect opportunity to forgive a guy's sin and assign the guy a few Rosaries and Our Fathers. He DIDN'T do anything like that.

Acts 8:20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.
21 Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.
22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.

[Desdemona]

You didn't pay attention when patent answered you, did you.

[ThomasMore]

I'm not sure why you're laughing? You quote a scribe and neglect to hear the words of the Lord.

"On the evening of that first day of the week, when the doors were locked, where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in their midst and said to them, "Peace be with you." When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. The disciples rejoiced when they saw the Lord. (Jesus) said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you." And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained." [John 20:19-23]

Also, see patent's post #20.

[ArrogantBustard]

Here's the whole passage, which looks a bit different:

Acts 8:17-24

17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost
was given, he offered them money,
19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive
the Holy Ghost.
20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought
that the gift of God may be purchased with money.
21 Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of
God.
22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of
thine heart may be forgiven thee.
23 For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.
24 Then answered Simon, and said, Pray ye to the LORD for me, that none of these
things which ye have spoken come upon me.

[Onelifetogive]

19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. 20 And when he had so said, he showed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.
21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

Jesus said this to the disciples. (Not just to the Apostles.) The disciples were ALL of His followers. ALL Christians. Can All Christians forgive each other's sins against God? Why does the Catholic Church use this verse to justify only "priests" having the power of forgiveness.

[ArrogantBustard]

Twice, now, he has quoted partial passages from Scripture, and distorted the meaning thereof.

[ArrogantBustard]

All of them? Locked up in a single room? Hardly...

[ArrogantBustard]

Please answer #20.

Thank you.

[Onelifetogive]

Here's the whole passage, which looks a bit different

What is the difference???

I get my direction from Simon Peter - "Pray God", your direction is from Simon the sorcerer "Pray ye the Lord for me."

[Onelifetogive]

Please answer #20.

I did. See 21.

[ArrogantBustard]

Simon Magus was not repentant. Peter told him to pray for the Grace of repentance. Simon Magus asked Peter to pray for that Grace (to be given to SM) as well. Both actions are presented as correct. I get my direction from the whole story; you ignore half of it.

The whole business is irrelevant to confession and the power to forgive sins, granted in John 20.

[Onelifetogive]

...and the power to forgive sins, granted in John 20.

The "power" granted in John 20 was, clearly, granted to the "disciples." The disciples were ALL Christians.

[attagirl]

I'm not going to be around--just surfing--but had to comment. So, are you saying that all disciples--meaning you and me--get to retain sin? You aren't making any sense.

[pray4liberty]

Sons of Satan, these bishops.

[Onelifetogive]

So, are you saying that all disciples--meaning you and me--get to retain sin? You aren't making any sense.

I did't say it. Christ said it. We have to study under the guidance of the Holy Spirit to understand it.

[patent]

It was put in their (sic) to demonstrate thier (sic) foolishness

I agree! Their foolishness was in not realizing that Jesus was God!

Their foolishness then only demonstrates your foolishness today in quoting them. The only response you make to my post is to nitpick the spelling? Again, why do you quote the scribes in defense of your doctrine?

Why do you falsely claim St. Mark said these things, when it was really the scribes?

These things should give you pause; instead you just mock spelling errors. The irony of the situation is that you accuse us of being legalistic.

patent  +AMDG

[Onelifetogive]

The only response you make to my post is to nitpick the spelling?

Untrue.

My response was that the Scribes knew that "only God could forgive sins", but could not understand that Jesus was God.

The normal Catholic response is that "only God can forgive sins, but God does it through a priest."

That is why I posted the incident from Acts where Peter refered Simon the Sorcerer directly to God for forgiveness. Simon them asked Peter to pray for him. Christians, like Peter, pray for each other all the time. There is not any indication that Peter gave Simon absolution, or assigned him the Rosary, or any number of Our Fathers to say.