Skip to comments.The FReeper Foxhole Remembers The USS PUEBLO HiJacking (1/23/1968) - Nov. 4th, 2003
Posted on 11/04/2003 12:00:24 AM PST by SAMWolf
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Punishing them just breaks my heart after reading about what they went through. They were very brave, and all but one lived through it! I'm so proud of them for doing that, and managing to show their defiance despite vicious retaliation. The NKs are savages.
The Navy put the Pueblo into harms's way with no protection and then tried to make Cmdr. Bucher a scapegoat.
We seem to have a habit of doing things like that.
THE FIRST SABRE VERSUS MiG-15 COMBAT
The following account has been reviewed by Colonel Bruce H Hinton for accuracy.
Poor weather over Korea kept the Sabres on the ground until late morning on December 17,1950. F-86A-5s from the Fourth flew their first combat patrol that day from Kimpo. Lieutenant Colonel Bruce Hinton, the commander of the 336th Fighter Interceptor Squadron and a veteran pilot, led a flight of four F-86s north to patrol MiG Alley near Sinuiju, across the Yalu River from Antung, China. Colonel Hinton used F-80 radio call signs, flying patterns and altitudes to deceive and entice the MiGs into combat. The trick worked. While the Sabres patrolled in a finger four formation at 25,000 feet, four MiGs took off from Antung to attack. The MiGs approached at 18,000 feet climbing in a southeasterly direction near Sinuiju. Colonel Hinton radioed the other Sabres to release their droptanks, but his own radio was not working. They did jettison their droptanks, however, and dove on the MiGs as the MiGs paralleled the Yalu River. As Colonel Hinton banked to close behind the MiGs, he became separated from his flight. The Sabres closed at 410 knots and 20,000 feet while increasing their airspeed at maximum power. The MiGs dove and then began a climbing left turn. Colonel Hinton's airspeed on his early F-86A exceeded the red line on his machmeter at this point. Then the MiGs broke. Colonel Hinton fired a long burst from his six .50 calibre machine guns hitting the second MiG-15 in its right wing and fuselage. Leaks were seen from the MiG which began smoking. Colonel Hinton then fired a long burst and saw fire exit the MiG's tailpipe as smoke was seen coming from the rest of the enemy plane. He fired another long burst, and fire covered the entire rear of the MiG's fuselage. As the MiG slowed, Colonel Hinton opened his dive brakes and throttled the engine back. The MiG was given another long burst. Pieces flew off as the MiG rolled on its back and went down. The stricken MiG-15 crashed ten miles southeast of the Yalu River. Colonel Hinton fired 1,200 rounds on his attack. One other MiG was damaged by Captain Morris Pitts, but all three remaining MiGs outran the Sabres across the Yalu River to Manchuria. Colonel Hinton later flew a victory roll as he returned to Kimpo.
The Port treaties of the 1920's..which enabled commerce on the inland rivers of China.
The many "Gunboats" serving on China Station so that companies like Standard Oil could explore resource possibilities in China.
The current dilemma of Iraq has been the norm for a hundred years as envious peoples attack progess in the name of nationalism.
oil/commerce and Communist China...oil/commerce and Islam.
not much change in 100 yrs
Using military force to protect commerce has gotten a bad name, unfairly so in my opinion. Think about it. The primary destablizing countries who triggered WWII, Germany, Italy and Japan, have all decided that getting rich is more fun than fighting wars. If we can persuade the Arabs that this is so, we will have come a long way toward winning the war on terror.
These little and by 1940's obsolete River Gunboats had a colorfull history contending against Communism's emergence in China..along with Japans quadrant aggressions leading up to WW-2 and during its first months.
USS Luzon PR 7 and USS Oahu PR 6 made an exciting escape from the Japanese at the wars onset..finding themselves in the Phillipines and the Heroic defense of Corregidor.
Americas Flag flying bravely in the face of overwhelming odds : )
Another facet is *Extortion as a intereim reality between Al Harb [House of War] and subjugation.
Since Sept 11th the U.S. has been paying out way too much money to these savages..and getting nothing in return.
Heavy sigh,..Are we too soft and morally confused in this war on terror and ..Extorion /cash windfall thingy?
Ghost of Black Jack Pershing come and kick our butts..then crush the Jihadi like were supposed too : )
My understanding is that it is no sin to lie to an "infidel" or non-believer in the Muslim faith. Shoot, Muslims lie to each other all the time. Look at all the pious pro-Arab, anti-American platitudes that come out of Egypt, Jordan and Saudi Arabia, while at the same time they are allied with the U.S. They just lie to keep their sheeple happy.
Sorry for not getting into these threads the last few days ... but my Gun Guy has been in the hospital since last week and I've been running the gun store while he's out of action ..... this means, of course, I have to get up EARLY in the AM (well, early for me anyway) .... and go open the store ..... but it would be a GREAT time for someone looking for a new shooting iron to get a GREAT DEAL ...... ROFL ..... :)
Thanks for all your, and SAMWolf's, hard work on these Foxhole threads!
Lt. Randy Cunningham with his back-seater Willie Driscoll, score the second of three air victories achieved during a single mission, May 10th. 1972, making them the only US Navy Aces of the Vietnam War.
Revell/Monogram have a nice 1/48 of Cunninghams F4J... Its an eye catcher for sure..as guests often notice mine when visiting.
Hasegawa also makes a 1/48 which is the photo below.
A U.S. Army tank guards a marketplace in the Baghdad suburb of Abu Ghraib, November 2, 2003. Locals said skirmishes developed in a market area of the town for the second time in three days, and military bulldozers later demolished stalls set up near the roadway.
Just like Israel...U.S. forces on the ready line as Jihadi's exploit a common area like a market to kill.
Iraqi children celebrate with a picture of former Iraqi President Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) in the center of Fallujah, 65 km west of Baghdad, Monday, Nov 3, 2003. Gunners brought down a U.S. Army Chinook helicopter in Fallujah on Sunday, killing 16 and wounding 20 others. (AP Photo/Khalid Mohammed)
M-26 with German Panther on trailer
M26 12-ton Tractor & M15 Semi-Trailer
If not the largest American vehicle used in World War II, then the 'Dragon Wagon' must be the best known of the heavy haulers. Designed to recover the M4 Medium Tank from frontline battlefield conditions, the 'Dragon Wagon' could tow the tank if the running gear was intact - or haul the entire tank up on the flatbed trailer. Though the vehicle was rated to transport 40 tons - the weight of the M4 Medium Tank - the 'Dragon Wagon' often hauled far more. Virtually anything the crew could put on the flatbed could be hauled by this truck. Loads up to 100,000 pounds were not unusual for the 'Dragon Wagon'. The first version of the 'Dragon Wagon' had an armor plated cab to protect the crew. It was anticipated that the vehicle would be employed while under enemy fire. This additional weight, however, belabored the tractor severely and impacted its overall performance. When tank recovery under fire didn't prove the case in actual use in Western Europe, the M26A1 variant was developed. This being an unarmored cab, open topped and radically different in appearance from the armored version.
Is that like LeeLoo Dallas Multi Pass ?...
From the Movie...The Fifth Element.
Just teasing Snippy...Anyhoo..rent the Movie if you haven't seen it..its great!
Leeloo Dallas is the Fifth Element and the key concern in the movie.
It has alot of comedy aswell.
Snippy is an important element to Foxhole....she takes and gives back good when teasing arrises...LOL!
What a fine lot of pantywaists avoiding responsibility: the ship was "not operating under Navy authority" but under "Spook Command".
Quite the Liberty deja vu all over again.
And that little matter of Pearl Harbor--blame the guy who showed up for the Japs' treachery and FDR's flatfoot useful idiocy.
And to send the crew baseball scores instead of the PDRK invasion raid--priceless.
This is the donut mentality that turned its back on Speicher--who may or may not be alive, no thanks to "command".
Oh and Johnson would "do anything"--he'd sacrifice our people with his target list "sanitization" to spare embarrassing Ho Chi Minh or offending Mao, so of course he wasn't about to offend Kim Il Sung Chia Prick the Elder.
Now when it came to buying votes of color, five, six trillion, no price (in your dollars) is too high.
It's the premier nut house of the globe, North Korea, where ax murderers wear uniforms and women must eat bark so Chia Prick has Mickey Mouse tee-shirts and comfort comrades.
So send a twenty-two-year-old barge into hell and harm's way with zero repeat zero cover.
Oh, but Kim Il Sung's winged monkeys will respect the international limit--just as Hong Fat wouldn't dream of flying into Vegomatic number one on our EP-3C.
And again the crew can't destroy the secret stuff fast enough--
Our friend who was charged with PDRK order of battle 1956-7 said the plane should have been put down--but that it was night and there were women--hence ChiComs got our stuff.
And why does our intel continue to suffer?
Because Tenet's CIA remains the political hackshop traitorrapist42 set up.
Because the minority on Senate Select Intel isn't seeking better product--only better gotcha against their main enemy, not Osama or Saddam but President Bush 43.
Speaking of Korea, KAL 007 went down in 83 with a US congressman on board Larry MacDonald.
I asked our friend about that, and he and his wife knew some of the principals.
I emailed Reed Irvine of Accuracy In Media and he called and we talked at some length.
Radar showed the airliner descended smoothly, not in some catastrophic dive.
Only shoes, no bodies were recovered.
Hence, the hypothesis that it took the MiG's missile without breaking up, splashed intact, passengers offloaded, fuselage towed and sunk.
Irvine explained a new book was being released, and wouldn't you know it, none of the media came to the press conference.
When Commies succeed, the universe is humming along fine, hence, it's not news.
One of many perplexing details that raise questions about what really happened to KAL 007 after the attack is that the jetliner remained airborne for at least 12 minutes. During a press briefing on the morning of September 1, 1983, Secretary of State George Shultz told reporters: "At 1826 hours the Soviet pilot reported that he fired a missile and the target was destroyed. At 1830 hours the Korean aircraft was reported by radar at 5,000 meters [16,400 feet]. At 1838 hours the Korean plane disappeared from the radar screen."
To date, no one has adequately explained how a jetliner supposedly blownup and hurtling out of control toward the sea would take at least 12 minutes to fall 35,000 feet. For comparison, consider this Associated Press dispatch as printed by Deseret News (Salt Lake City) for February 20, 1985: "A China Airlines jumbo jet fell 32,000 feet in less than two minutes Tuesday [February 19th] after all four of its engines failed but the pilot restarted them and flew 500 miles with a damaged tail before making an emergency landing here [San Francisco], authorities said .... The Boeing 747 ... fell from a cruising altitude of 41,000 feet to 9,000 feet, said ... a spokesman at San Francisco International Airport." The plane fell 32,000 feet in something less than two minutes. Let us be conservative (and keep the arithmetic simple) by assuming that it was exactly two minutes, in which case the rate of descent would have been 267 feet per second. Had KAL 007 "plummeted" toward the sea at that rate, its fall would have taken about two minutes and 11 seconds -- not 12 minutes.
It is important to note that its disappearance from the radar screen by no means meant that KAL 007 had crashed. It could have remained airborne thereafter until it either landed or ran out of fuel. Newsweek for September 12, 1983 reported that the plane went off radar while it was still 5,000 feet in the air. And R. W. Johnson asserts in Shootdown that it "went off the Wakkanai radar at 1000 feet."
In any event, KAL 007 remained aloft for at least 12 minutes after the attack, which is near-conclusive evidence that the crew was at least partially in control of the aircraft. Otherwise, the descent would have been far more precipitous.
Another remarkable aspect of the descent is that it appears to have been carried out according to standard procedure for an aircraft that has suffered an engine loss and decompression, but is still being controlled by the crew. A precipitous initial descent (between 4,000 and 7,000 feet per minute, depending on weather conditions and the structural condition of the aircraft) is intended to quickly reach a level where there is adequate oxygen and a warmer temperature. Thereafter, the rate is reduced as the pilot signals for assistance, seeks a place to land, makes his position known to potential rescuers, etc. The available data indicates that the Captain of KAL 007 followed that procedure.
This is the book Reed Irvine told me about.
Rescue 007: The Untold Story of KAL 007 and Its Survivors By Bert Schlossberg
They Tried to Destroy the Passenger Plane...
The target is destroyed, so said Major Gennadie Osipovich as he launched two Anab medium range air-to-air missiles in the direction of the Korean Airlines Boeing 747 flying over Russias Sakhalin Island carrying 269 unsuspecting passengers and crew. It was August 31, 1983.
Not so! said Russian General Kornukov and Lt. Col. Gerasimenko as they watched KAL 007 on their radar screen slowly descend in search of a favorable landing site.
Gerasimenko: Turning left, right, apparently. . . its descending.
Kornukov: Destroy it, use the [MiG] 23, destroy it, I said!
Not so! said Lt. Col. Novoseletski, Smirnykh Air Base Chief of Staff as he first realized that KAL 007 had indeed survived.
Novoseletski: What is happening, what is the matter, who guided him in, he locked on, why didnt he shoot it down?
Not so! says General Kornukov again when, three minutes after the missile attack, he is informed by Major Osipovichs ground controller that not only has the airliner not been downed, it is also able to negotiate turns.
Kornukov: I do not understand the result, why is the target flying? [obscenities], well, what is happening?
Not so! says Lt. Col. Novoseletski again at twelve minutes after the attack as he futilely tries again to bring down the huge Korean passenger plane.
Novoseletski: Get it! Get it! Go ahead, bring in the MiG 23.
Ground Controller: Roger. The MiG 23 is in the area. It is descending to 5000 [meters]. The order has been given. Destroy upon detection.
And, Not so! say Lt. Col. Novoseletski, 21 minutes after the strike, and General Strogov, the Deputy Commander of the Soviet Far East Military District, 29 minutes after, as they order rescue missions to be sent to tiny Moneron Island (4 1/2 miles long, 3 miles wide), where the jet liner has just ditched.
Novoseletski: Prepare whatever helicopters there are. Rescue helicopters.
Ground Controller: Rescue?
Ground Controller: The border guards and KGB are at Khornutovo.
Strogov: The border guards. What ships do we now have near Moneron Island? If they are civilian, send [them] there immediately.
Ground Controller: Understood, Comrade General.
In the early morning hours of August 31, 1983, a single Soviet Interceptor sent a missile in the direction of a Korean Airlines 747 jumbo jet carrying 269 passengers and crew on a flight from Anchorage, Alaska to Seoul, Korea.
For years, it was believed that the "target" was "destroyed", as reported seconds after the attack. In a dramatic turn of events, evidence surfaced (some quite literally from the bottom of the sea) proving that KAL 007 had indeed ditched successfully off the shores of tiny Moneron Island, and that the passengers and crew were rescued to be held captive in the former Soviet Union. Here, in this book, are the unparalleled transcripts and chronicling of the whole Soviet hierarchy from the Commander of the Far East Military District down to Major Osipovich squeezing the trigger. Here are the high level, and sometimes vehement, interchanges that resulted in both the shooting down and the ordering of rescue missions involving KGB patrol boats, helicopters, and civilian trawlers around Moneron. And, here finally, is the evidence we need to bring our people home. Senator Jesse Helms to Boris Yeltsin-December 10, 1991:
"The KAL-007 tragedy was one of the most tense incidents of the entire Cold War. . . Please provide a detailed list of the camps containing live passengers and crew, together with a map showing their location."
This air emergency, then, is probably the most dramatic and fully documented flight-gone-wrong ever.
The 747-200B was originally known as the 747B. It was a modification of the original 747, which was first flown on April 11, 1969. Even before the first production 747s rolled off the line, the upgraded 747B was announced in June 1968. The 747Bs were later called 747-200Bs and the original production model the 747-100. Subsequent modifications became the 747-300 and the 747-400. Boeing also manufactured a 747-200F (Freighter), 747-200C (Convertible from freight to passengers) and a 747-200M ("Combi" combination passenger and freight) as well as the 747-SP (Special Performance).
Boeing model numbers are a combination of the aircraft series number and a designation for the airline contracting for construction. The number for Lufthansa is 30; therefore, this plane is designated as a Boeing 747-230B since it was manufactured for Lufthansa originally.
Above is a photo of the plane as D-ABYH (Condor Airlines) before purchased and flown as HL7442 (Korean Airlines).
Our future enemy, deal with then now.
Because Tenet's CIA remains the political hackshop traitorrapist42 set up.
Bingo!. I don't trust ANYONE who was appointed by Clinton and the first thing Bush should have done was accept the resignations of anyone appointed bt Clinton.
Flight 007, USS Pueblo, border crossing incidents, terrorist attacks, our enemies keep tesing us and we have found to be wanting. The ROE should be, you screw with us , you lose a your Air Force, a base, a harbor, your palace, a government building, a town, whatever, until they learn that screwing with the US isn't worth the price.
Awww. SAM, where is your blushing face? I need it over here!
Thank you Light Speed for the kind words.