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The FReeper Foxhole Studies Army Mortuary Affairs History - November 7th, 2003
Army Quartermaster ^

Posted on 11/07/2003 3:33:16 AM PST by snippy_about_it



Lord,

Keep our Troops forever in Your care

Give them victory over the enemy...

Grant them a safe and swift return...

Bless those who mourn the lost.
.

FReepers from the Foxhole join in prayer
for all those serving their country at this time.



...................................................................................... ...........................................

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A History of the Quartermaster Mortuary Affairs Mission

"Show me the manner in which a nation or a community cares for its dead and I will measure with mathematical exactness the tender sympathies of its people, their respect for the laws of the land and their loyalty to high ideals." – Gladstone.


Early Beginnings

As far back as the early 1800s, Quartermaster officers assigned to frontier outposts constructed cemetery plots, buried the dead in marked graves, and kept a fairly uniform record of burial. Though commendable, these efforts hardly afforded the practical experience needed to handle combat fatalities resulting from a large-scale conflict. No formal policy addressed that possibility either.

The Mexican War (1846-47) provided the first real test of the Army’s ability to care for its war dead, but with results that were far from satisfactory. In one instance, General Zachary Taylor saw to it that the dead were properly collected and buried on the battlefield following his celebrated victory at Buena Vista. Unfortunately, he neglected to mark the site of the burial on the map accompanying his official report. Years later, when the US government sought to erect a monument to the fallen heroes, no burial site could be found. A similar experience marked the campaign of General Winfield Scott, whose troops landed at Vera Cruz and marched overland to Mexico City. Of the hundreds who died and were buried along the way, only a fraction were located afterwards and none ever identified.


At the Mexico City National Cemetery there are seven hundred and fifty American soldiers buried that were killed during the Mexican War. Their remains were gathered in 1851, four years after the war, and buried in a common grave at this cemetery. They were not identified so they are classified as Unknown Soldiers. In addition there are eight veterans of the Mexican War buried at this cemetery.


The Civil War

The actual foundation of today’s Mortuary Affairs mission is more readily traced to the outbreak of the American Civil War. That tragic conflict elicited more sacrifice and accounted for more battle deaths than all of our other major wars combined. At the same time, public sensibilities towards the treatment of dead soldiers appeared to be changing, possibly in response to the sight of so many citizen-soldiers donning the blue or gray. Still, this heightened concern for the war dead did not automatically translate into an improved battlefield scenario. Almost invariably, the dead were buried by details from the line, right at, or very near the scene of the battle. When the armies moved on, those burial grounds with their temporary markers were left to deteriorate, leaving little hope of locating or identifying the grave of any given decedent.

Another factor contributed to the problem of identifying and locating individual graves. Burial "squads" were frequently made up of prisoners of war (POWs), or other less than willing hands. Often illiterate or careless, the results of their actions were fairly predictable: the true identity of many of the dead was lost to error. During the action at the Wilderness and Spotsylvania Courthouse, approximately 1,500 men died, and only a fourth of those were ever identified. (Roughly 58 percent of all those who died during the Civil War were positively identified.) The countless notices appearing in the newspapers of the time, asking for information about those missing in action, bore witness to this legacy of uncertainty.

Other examples of concern over the Army’s failure to provide adequate graves registration, as well as of the negative effect this lack of support had on the troops, abounded. When the Union Army of the Potomac crossed the Rapidan River and entered Virginia on 4 May 1864, those soldiers were horrified to discover the bleached bones of comrades who had fallen the year before lying exposed on the ground.

At this point many of the troops searched through the remains hoping to discover clues that would designate the remains as those of departed friends. They looked for identifying marks on clothing and equipment, evidence of fatal wounds, and peculiarities of tooth structure as part of their search. (It is interesting to note that these methods of establishing identification would become part of standard operating procedure for 20th Century mortuary affairs personnel.)

Finally, before moving into the Wilderness, those troops took time to bury the exposed remains. The fear of being listed among the "unknowns" weighed upon the combat troops. Even though the War Department did not require or issue any sort of identifying tag, the rank and file often took steps to ensure that their identity would be known should they be killed on the battlefield. Identifying markers carved on wood were carried by many soldiers, as were medallions bearing their names and other information. Before attacking the entrenched Confederates at Mine Run during the winter of 1863, the men of the Union Fifth Corps wrote their names on small scraps of paper and pinned them to their uniforms.


Still, the military hierarchy of the day apparently failed to realize not only the importance of some type of permanent identification for combat soldiers, but also the obvious need for specially trained units and personnel who could properly care for the war dead. On only one occasion, after the Battle of Fort Stevens outside of Washington, DC, in the summer of 1864, did a group resembling a modern day Mortuary Affairs unit come into play.

CPT James M. Moore, newly appointed head of the Quartermaster Cemeterial Division, led a group of his personnel on to the battlefield after the fighting had ended. There they began a systematic search and recovery of remains and personal effects, eventually managing to identify all the remains. Their achievement of a perfect score was not to be matched within the US Army for many decades. Unfortunately, that perfect score still did not lead to the use of trained mortuary personnel on a routine basis. During the course of the war, the Quartermaster Corps was clearly established as the responsible agent for caring for the Army’s dead. After the war, between 1866 and 1870, the Cemeterial Division disinterred the remains of nearly 300,000 war dead and laid them to rest in 73 newly created national cemeteries.

Spanish-American War

Conspicuous advances in the theory and practice of Army graves registration were not to take place until the turn of the century, during the Spanish-American War. As a result of experiences in Cuba, it was learned that successful identification of remains depended more than anything on shortening the time span between death, original burial, and registration of graves. Later, Chaplain Charles C. Pierce, who established the Quartermaster Office of Identification in the Philippines, outlined some of the principles and techniques needed to place care of war dead on a more scientific basis. He recommended inclusion of an "identity disc" in the combat field kit, and the establishment of central collection points or agencies where all pertinent mortuary records could be gathered, filed, checked, traced and corrected. Positive identification, he reasoned, should admit little doubt and no discrepancies.

The Quartermaster Department was reorganized in 1912 and became the Quartermaster Corps, a fully militarized branch of the service, much as we know it today. Specialized troops took over most of the functions previously performed by civilians or detachments from the line. Thus, on the eve of the United States entry into World War I, the way was cleared for the establishment of trained Quartermaster units which would care for the dead.

New regulations adopted in 1913 affirmed the Army’s now strong commitment toward positive identification and proper burial of the dead. New techniques had made their way into procedure, particularly in regard to identification. Detailed maps and sketches showing exact locations of all temporary grave sites were to be filed at the time of initial burial. This would ease the process of disinterment at a later date. By 1917 the War Department moved a step further, amending Army Regulations so that all combat soldiers would be required to wear aluminum "dog tags" in the field.


World War I How a grave is marked by the Graves Registration Service, Q.M.C.cross has both the identity tag and plate prepared by the Service. Mareuil-en-Dole, 77th Division 12 September 1918

World War I

While readying the American Expeditionary Force for its trip to Europe during World War I, General John J. "Blackjack" Pershing requested the establishment of a Graves Registration Service assigned to the Western Front. Major Charles C. Pierce, who had headed up the Office of Identification in Manila two decades earlier and since retired, was recalled to active service on behalf of the Quartermaster Corps. He began training graves registration (GRREG) troops and units at the Philadelphia Quartermaster Depot in the summer of 1917. By October his headquarters had moved to Tours, France. From this location, 19 Quartermaster GRREG companies were dispatched to every section of the combat zone during the next year and a half.

While the headquarters staff of the Graves Registration Service tended to the consolidation and preservation of mortuary records and the maintenance of semi-permanent cemeteries at the rear of the battlefield, the GRREG companies themselves offered close support to the line. The dedication and esprit of member personnel was often noteworthy to the point of extremes. No risk appeared too dangerous or effort too great if it promised identification of a "buddy’s" remains. General Pershing wrote of one particular unit’s activities in the spring of 1918:

"(They) began their work under heavy shell of fire and gas, and, although troops were in dugouts, these men immediately went to the cemetery and in order to preserve records and locations, repaired and erected new crosses as fast as old ones were blown down. They also completed the extension to the cemetery, this work occupying a period of one and a half hours, during which time shells were falling continuously and they were subjected to mustard gas. They gathered many bodies which had been first in the hands of the Germans, and were later retaken by American counterattacks. Identification was especially difficult, all papers and tags having been removed, and most of the bodies being in a terrible condition and beyond recognition."



A burial party of the 42nd Division, these parties were kept busy for days digging graves for the dead that littered the fields and woods after the advance beyond Chateau-Thierry. Beuvardes, France, 30 July 1918

During the Great War, as it was called, many relatives of soldiers opted to have their kin remain in the country where they had fallen. Teddy Roosevelt added impetus to this movement by requesting that his own son, LT Quentin Roosevelt, be buried near the ground where he was killed. His expression – "Where the tree falls, let it lie" – echoed the sentiments of many. In all, eight permanent cemeteries were established in Europe by war’s end (six in France, and one each in Belgium and England) wherein approximately 30,000 veterans were laid to rest. Another 47,000 bodies were returned to the United States. During World War I, the Quartermaster Graves Registration Service reduced the percentage of unknowns to less than 3 bodies for every 100 recovered. While organizational and operational refinements helped reduce the time span between original burial and final disposition of remains, a new and more scientific approach aided in the process of identification. World War I saw the coming of age of Army graves registration.

World War II

During World War II the task of graves registration proved far greater. More than 250,000 Americans died and were buried in temporary cemeteries around the world. On the European continent alone, fighting had scattered dead US forces over 1 1/2 million square miles of territory, making the recovery process more difficult. Further, new weapons (including aerial bombardment and massive use of artillery) often rendered those killed in action unrecognizable.


Personal Effects being checked at a collection point in the European Theater, Undated U.S. Army Photo


The standard Graves Registration Company in World War II consisted of 260 men and 5 officers. It was intended to support three divisions, one platoon per division. Each platoon was divided into two sections – a collecting squad and an evacuation squad. GRREG companies collected, evacuated, identified and supervised the burial of the dead. These field units also collected and disposed of personal effects and, subject to the approval of higher headquarters, selected sites for temporary cemeteries. As in World War I, work often had to be done under extremely hazardous conditions. The famed war correspondent, Ernie Pyle, reported on GRREG personnel seeking refuge in the freshly-dug graves during the heaviest fighting at Anzio.


World War II Identification, Undated U.S. Army Photo

Another example of heroic service can be found in the record of a Quartermaster Graves Registration Company that scrambled ashore on D-Day with the First Army. There they gathered bodies from the beaches, in the water and inland, actually cutting many from wrecked landing craft submerged in the shallow water. By the end of D+2, one platoon alone had buried 457 American dead. By working day and night, the three platoons had been able to clear the beaches of all remains.


Army Chaplain Francis L. Sampson of Sioux Falls, S.D., gives absolution to American paratroopers killed in action, in Saint Marie Dumont, France, U.S. Army Photo, 7 June 1944 (Note that bodies are wrapped in parachutes)

Korea and Vietnam

Since graves registration units have been traditionally governed by regulations that denote them as a wartime service, most were quickly disbanded in the months following V-J (Victory over Japan) Day. Within a few years the Quartermaster Graves Registration Service overseas was virtually eliminated. This created an enormous problem when suddenly and unexpectedly, the US Army found itself locked in conflict with communist aggressors on the Korean peninsula in June 1950. At that time only one small organization – the l08th Quartermaster Graves Registration Platoon, comprised of 30 men stationed in Yokohama, Japan – was available for rapid deployment during the emergency buildup.


Cpl. William K. Davidson of Philadelphia, Pa., 114th Graves Registration Co., Quartermaster Corps, fills out a Form 52B, giving information regarding a deceased American soldier at the UN Cemetery at Taegu, Korea. At right are (l-r) marker (cross), unidentified soldier marker (triangular) and small bottle containing Form 1042 which is buried with the soldier, U.S. Army Photograph, 23 January 1951


To compound the difficulty, only a handful of these men had combat experience. (The only other active GRREG unit in the entire Army establishment was the 565th Quartermaster Graves Registration Company at Fort Bragg, NC.) Five men from the 108th Platoon were attached to each of the three divisions initially chosen for combat – the 24th, 25th, and 1st Cavalry – and with these 15 men went the few graves registration supplies that could be rounded up. The fluid tactical situation, particularly during the first six months of fighting, aggravated by manpower and supply shortages, rendered GRREG support extremely difficult.

Because circumstances prevented establishing a large, centrally located Army cemetery, division-level cemeteries had to be used instead. Eleven separate cemeteries were opened in the Eighth Army area during the first two months of fighting. In the wake of the renewed communist offensive in the fall of 1950, Allied units were forced to quickly close down these cemeteries and concentrate on evacuating the dead - to the relative security of rear areas, then to Japan for processing and eventual shipment to the continental United States (CONUS). By the end of January 1951, nearly 5,000 bodies had been removed from temporary cemeteries in Korea to the newly formed central identification unit (CIU) in Kokura, Japan. This was the first time in US history that a mass evacuation of combat dead took place while hostilities were still in progress.


Cpl. Marlin R. Shive of York, Pa. (right), blows taps as Chaplain (DAC) John F. Coffey of Detroit, Mich., a Maryknoll Father of Headquarters, 2nd Infantry Division, prays over a grave at the Miryang United Nations Cemetery, Miryang, Korea, U.S. Army Photograph, 11 January 1951


By the time battle lines stabilized in mid-1951 and additional GRREG units arrived in Korea, operating procedures had standardized. A 72-acre United Nations Military Cemetery was opened at Tanggok, as well as the Eighth Army’s Central Identification Laboratory. During the final two years of the war, refrigerated railroad cars were used to ship remains from forward collecting points to Tanggok. A full-scale search and recovery effort was instituted to reduce the number of personnel listed as missing in action. As armistice talks got underway, a pattern evolved wherein the dead were recovered and shipped back to the US within a period of 30 days. It is estimated that more than 97 percent of the recovered American dead were identified.


A bugler sounded taps for 11 unknown Korean war dead at the National Memorial Cemetery of the Pacific in Hawaii in May 1956.

The Vietnam War, America’s longest large-scale conflict abroad, saw more improvements in the Army’s ability to care for its dead. The nature of that war - especially the use of high-mobility, small unit tactics - lessened the numbers of unaccounted-for dead. More important, better methods of communications and transportation from the battlefield (particularly the use of helicopters) allowed for the speedy recovery of remains from the battlefield, often within minutes.


Camp Evans, Vietnam A bugler on a hill overlooking the A Shau Valley plays taps at a memorial service for the fallen soldiers of the 2nd Bn, 319th Arty., 101st Airborne Division, 1969 (Information Office, 101st Abn Div SP4 Larry Peterson)

Combat units themselves were responsible for initial, on-the-spot recovery in most instances. From that point, remains were brought to two fixed and well-equipped mortuaries in-country, located at Da Nang in the far north and in Tan Son Nhut, just outside of Saigon. There, positive identification was made. New laboratory procedures supplemented traditional identification methodology such as dental and fingerprint comparison.

Ultimately, the remains of 96 percent of those who had fallen were recovered, as compared to a 78 percent recovery rate for both World War II and Korea. The four percent not accounted for translates to about 2,300 soldiers. Still, on average, only 7 days elapsed from the time of death to receipt of remains by the next of kin. At the end of the war, only 28 of the bodies of American soldiers recovered remained unidentified. Over time, all but one of those were positively identified. On Memorial Day 1984, that one soldier was interred in the Tomb of Unknowns in Arlington National Cemetery.

Note: DNA testing subsequently proved that the remains buried in the Tomb of the Unknowns were those of US Air Force First Lieutenant Michael Joseph Blassie. Lieutenant Blassie’s remains were returned to his family, and he was buried in his hometown of St. Louis, MO, on 11 July1998.

A Proud Heritage

The outstanding record of Mortuary Affairs units in caring for our dead during more recent conflicts and peacetime disasters is a far cry from that of 150 years ago. Beginning with a change of sensibilities, with the consciousness that soldiers and their families did not want the fate or the identity of those who fell in battle to be left unknown, there has been a continual effort to improve the techniques, equipment, doctrine and organizations designated to care for the Army’s dead. The experiences of the Mexican War, where virtually none of the dead were ever identified or their graves located and marked, are almost unimaginable today. A perfect to near perfect record of recovery, identification and disposition of remains has become the standard, to be carried out with all due honors.

 

Today the Search Continues ...

CILHI Team in Tibet reviewing map

CILHI Team in Tibet at crash site

CILHI Team in Tibet on mountain side at crash site

A 14-man search and recovery team from the US Army Central Identification Laboratory (CILHI), Hawaii recently trekked through the harsh Tibetan Himalayas to reach a World War II crash site - and returned with the remains of four American service members. Once again affirming the Army’s solemn commitment to visit the "end of the world," if need be, to retrieve and positively identify all of our nation’s war dead.







Mission and History The Joint POW/MIA Accounting Command (JPAC), located on the island of Oahu in Hawaii, was activated on Oct. 1, 2003. JPAC’s mission is to achieve the fullest possible accounting of all Americans missing as a result of our nation’s previous conflicts. Our highest priority is the return of any living Americans that remain prisoners of war.


JPAC was created from the merger of the 30 year old U.S. Army Central Identification Laboratory, Hawaii, and the 11 year old Joint Task Force - Full Accounting. This 425-person organization, commanded by a flag officer, is committed and dedicated to bringing home the nation’s service members and civilians who made the ultimate sacrifice.


JPAC recognizes that the efforts and involvement of our POW/MIA families contribute significantly to our success. JPAC owes a great deal of gratitude to the families and veterans who support our mission.


We are a jointly manned unit with handpicked Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Marines with specialized skills and Department of the Navy civilians who make up about 25 percent of the organization.


The laboratory portion of JPAC, referred to as the Central Identification Laboratory (CIL), is the largest forensic anthropology laboratory in the world.


Our mission is daunting, with approximately 78,000 Americans missing from World War II (of those, an estimated 35,000 are deemed recoverable, with the others lost at sea or entombed in sunken vessels), 8,100 missing from the Korean War, 1,800 missing from the Vietnam War, 120 missing from the Cold War, and one serviceman missing from the Gulf War.

To accomplish its mission, JPAC is organized to support five main areas: analysis, negotiations, investigations, recovery and identification.






FReeper Foxhole Armed Services Links




TOPICS: VetsCoR
KEYWORDS: 54thquartermaster; 92m; cilhi; freeperfoxhole; michaeldobbs; mortuaryaffairs; samsdayoff; veterans
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To: snippy_about_it
Although I expect he won't grow much.

LOL, you're right. 11 1/2 inches is the max.

81 posted on 11/07/2003 6:45:52 PM PST by Victoria Delsoul (I love the smell of winning, the taste of victory, and the joy of each glorious triumph)
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To: Victoria Delsoul
Well have fun with him and let us know when you get a picture.
82 posted on 11/07/2003 6:55:23 PM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: snippy_about_it
Thanks Snippy. I will.
83 posted on 11/07/2003 6:56:59 PM PST by Victoria Delsoul (I love the smell of winning, the taste of victory, and the joy of each glorious triumph)
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To: PhilDragoo
Good post, Phil. Thank you.
84 posted on 11/07/2003 6:59:06 PM PST by Victoria Delsoul (I love the smell of winning, the taste of victory, and the joy of each glorious triumph)
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To: Victoria Delsoul
MAN!!!!!! I hope you don't go for the foo-foo hairstyle.
It's bad enough it's a cute little doggie without having it run around dressed like some fag and getting beat up by cats.
85 posted on 11/07/2003 7:44:53 PM PST by SAMWolf (A foot is a device for finding furniture in the dark.)
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To: PhilDragoo
Thanks for the information on the latest dog tags being developed. Gotta love the technology.
86 posted on 11/07/2003 7:46:07 PM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: snippy_about_it
Tough thread today, snippy. Good job, though.
87 posted on 11/07/2003 7:49:11 PM PST by Samwise (There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil.)
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To: PhilDragoo
Evening Phil Dragoo.

Those new Hi-Tech dog tags sure look like they could be helpful in tracking a soldier.







So many good flicks for McQueen, loved him in "The Getaway" and "The Magnificent Seven"

88 posted on 11/07/2003 7:55:02 PM PST by SAMWolf (A foot is a device for finding furniture in the dark.)
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To: Victoria Delsoul
11 1/2 inches is the max.

I have a cat bigger than that.

89 posted on 11/07/2003 7:56:25 PM PST by SAMWolf (A foot is a device for finding furniture in the dark.)
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To: SAMWolf
I can't even begin to imagime the anguish of families going on for years "not knowing" for sure.

Back in '90 or so, my boss's brother's remains were identified and returned from Viet Nam. He went down in a plane crash, if I remember right. There were big articles in the paper, and a big ceremony was held in D.C. to honor him. She would not go. I gently tried to talk her into going, but she said she couldn't go through the pain again. You could not have kept me away, were he my brother. We each have to deal with things in our own ways.

90 posted on 11/07/2003 8:00:12 PM PST by Samwise (There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil.)
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To: Samwise
Thank you Samwise.
91 posted on 11/07/2003 8:00:29 PM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: Samwise
I would have gone too, as painful as it would be. Like you said though, we all have to deal with it in our own way.
92 posted on 11/07/2003 8:12:35 PM PST by SAMWolf (A foot is a device for finding furniture in the dark.)
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To: SAMWolf
I wonder what Kennedy or Clinton means in Aztec??
93 posted on 11/07/2003 8:31:42 PM PST by U S Army EOD (Just plain Wootten)
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To: snippy_about_it
Did you look at the CAP site I sent you? That would be a great thing to post.
94 posted on 11/07/2003 8:37:51 PM PST by U S Army EOD (Just plain Wootten)
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To: PhilDragoo; SAMWolf; Johnny Gage
Excerpts from Defence Daily..earlier date than Phils ref.

The U.S. Air Force acknowledged recently, in response to a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request, that the F-117A stealth bomber that went down in Yugoslavia in March (1999) was hit because of a "breakdown in mission planning" by U.S. commanders in the field. That breakdown in planning caused the plane to encounter defenses it was not designed to handle.

Retired Air Force Gen. Richard Hawley, former head of the Air Combat Command who oversaw the Air Force's fleet of aircraft, said in response to the service's admission that the plane was shot down: "before that airplane took off from Aviano, there was better than a 50-50 chance it would be shot down. Those are unacceptable odds."

Intelligence officials concede that the stealth bomber's downing, whether by anti-aircraft fire or not, raises issue of the incorporation of timely intelligence on rapidly changing weapons capabilities of adversaries against which the U.S. may have to engage, into the training and intelligence briefings that are given to pilots.

Continuing, this official said he doubted whether much intelligence regarding weapons systems that pilots might encounter in the Kosovo theater were incorporated into training and briefings. For instance, there was the Soviet-made 2S6 Integrated Air Defense System. It could have posed a formidable threat in particular to attacks by the A-10 anti-tank/armor attack aircraft and the Apache attack helicopters. The 2S6 is armed with 30-mm cannons and SA-19 surface-to-air missiles. According to a classified report provided to SOURCES, the 2S6 "was designed to defeat low flying aircraft and fast helicopters in the ground attack role."

NATO's concern about the 2S6 began in the early 1990s, shortly after the capabilities of the new anti-aircraft weapon system were confirmed by British intelligence, according to the classified report. Consequently, the secret report states, "with the 2S6 operational, NATO air tactics may have to be adjusted to include new types of countermeasures and techniques."

It's unclear whether these "new types of countermeasures and techniques" were incorporated into the air war against Yugoslavia, or whether NATO was at all concerned about the 2S6's deployment throughout the Yugoslav army. Some European military analysts speculate that the 2S6 or similar anti-aircraft weaponry may have brought down the F-117A stealth fighter. Other analysts, however, say the F-117A does not operate within the envelope of the 2S6's 30mm fire, nor does it deliver ordinance against a target in any manner which would bring it low enough to be hit by 30mm fire.

excerpt from Aeronatics:

A far more serious reason for Yugoslavia to conceal any evidence of NATO losses is the fact that many of such losses were caused by new SAM systems and upgrades for older ones supplied by Russia prior or during the war in violation of the UN sanctions. Any revelations regarding NATO losses will inevitably draw attention to Russia's role in the war. Considering that Russia is Yugoslavia largest and only weapons supplier, attempts on the part of Yugoslav military and government to draw attention away from NATO losses and Russian military assistance is understandable. According to reports released by Jane's, Russia might have supplied Yugoslavia with up to ten S-300PM long-range SAM systems (an older variant of the S-300PMU-1 currently in service in a number of countries). Stratfor also reported that Russia might have supplied Yugoslavia with as many as 50 of its latest 2S6M "Tunguska" SAM-AAA mobile systems. Additionally, Jane's reported that prior to the war Russia modernized a number of Yugoslav SAMs with new targeting and guidance equipment.

My comment...Did Emperor Clintonius say or do anyhting about this obvious violation of U.N. Sanctions?..

Or was he **still to busy arranging money laundering?

95 posted on 11/07/2003 9:00:44 PM PST by Light Speed
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To: U S Army EOD
Yes I looked at it, good idea thanks. :)
96 posted on 11/07/2003 9:24:33 PM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: PhilDragoo
BTTT!!!!!!!
97 posted on 11/08/2003 3:08:14 AM PST by E.G.C.
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To: Light Speed; SAMWolf; Johnny Gage; Sawdring; Grampa Dave
A Google search with key words

clinton + sanction + russia + kosovo + yugoslavia + "air defense"

brings 185 pages, none of which indicate Clinton sanctioned Russia for its air defense assistance in the Kosovo campaign.

I am shocked, shocked.

Bill Gertz, Betrayal: How the Clinton Administration Undermined American Security, Regnery, 1999, Chapter Eight: From Russia with Technology, pp 167-190, relates Russia's aid to Iran and Clinton's words not deeds approach to sanctions.

One and a half years after President Yeltsin told President Clinton that ballistic missile technology transfers to Iran would stop, it still continues. . . .Now time is running out; the stakes are great. . .Unless this problem is solved we see a potential trainwreck in our relations.

White House National Security Adviser Samuel Berger to Russian Security Council Secretary Andrei Kokoshin during a closed-door Kremlin meeting in May 1998.

Samuel Berger--who was lead counsel representing China at Hogan & Hartson: China's major mouthpiece appointed U.S. National Security Adviser by Clinton with not a peep from Republican eunuchs.

Gore and Chernomyrdin had a little under the table hand-holding called the Gore-Chernomyrdin Commission.

Gore and his father were puppet-protectors of Soviet bagman Armand Hammer whose father Julian founded the CPUSA in 1919.

Bush accused Chernomyrdin of profiting in the IMF loans to Russia laundering; Chernomyrdin angrily threatened to sue Bush.

Chernomyrdin did no such thing; Bush beat Gore.

Kremlin bagman Pavel Borodin was arrested in New York en route to Bush's innauguration.

Two Russian generals aided Iraq before the war. Their adorable comment was, "We did not come to Baghdad to drink coffee."

For all the Russian aid to Iraq, Iran, Syria, Yugoslavia, and all the Chinese aid to the above plus North Korea; and all the North Korean aid to all of the above plus Elbonia, Dyslexia and the Peoples Republic of Berkeley, Clinton sanctioned only Bill Gates, Elian Gonzales and Ken Starr--

And audited Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, and Bill O'Reilly--

b-but, we were told that only Nixon would stoop so low.

98 posted on 11/08/2003 3:39:42 PM PST by PhilDragoo (Hitlery: das Butch von Buchenvald)
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To: PhilDragoo
I believe there is absolutely nothing the Clintons wouldn't do to get and hold power.
99 posted on 11/08/2003 5:03:57 PM PST by SAMWolf (A fool and his money are soon partying.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 98 | View Replies]


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