The FReeper Foxhole Remembers Sherman's March to the Sea (Nov 1864 - Mar 1865) - Dec 23rd, 2003

Speech Presented to Pensacola Civil War Round Table ^ | March 4, 1993. | William A. Byrne, Ph.D.

[Soaring Feather]

Good morning everyone in The FOXHOLE.

[snippy_about_it]

Somebody ain't been FReepin' the same Civil War threads that I have, apparently...MUD

LOL. Obviously the author of this piece is not a FReeper. Good morning and good to see you "fall in" to the Foxhole today.

[snippy_about_it]

Good mornig Spooky.

[snippy_about_it]

Good morning feather,P.L.

;-)

[SpookBrat]

Bumping your rant! It's a good thing the south is back in the union. But I'm still not convinced this war was about freeing the slaves. If Sherman wanted to give them this great new free life, why did he burn their homes, destory their food, etc? "I'm here to free you, but you'll have to starve and have no place to work because I'm burning all the places of employment and you'll have no place to sleep because I'm going to burn your house down along with your masters house. Have a nice life".

What's up with that? I mean, so he helped the North win the war. That's fine and good, whatever, but I don't think it was because the Yanks cared about black people.

[SpookBrat]

Hey there Snips! How are you this morning? I hope you have a good day. I need to get up from here and make my husband Divinity. He asked for it. I wonder how many batches I'll have to make before I get it right?

[snippy_about_it]

Oh I agree with you. As in all things it was so much more than what shows in the simple explanation of things. It certainly wasn't about freeing the slaves, that was a political after thought as far as I'm concerned.

[snippy_about_it]

Cooking with syrup does make it difficult to get it right everytime.

[carton253]

Most of the "what ifs" sound good in theory, in practice or if they would have happened, who knows. My problem with "what ifs" are that even those theories will then have their own "what ifs". While interesting to theorize about, I see them as never ending.

I totally agree...but to me it's like a puzzle that could have more than one ending...where there are no right or wrong answers... just discussion and theory.

I like the discussion and theory part... and the puzzle part. No one will ever know what would have happened if Jackson had survived, or even if his survival would have changed the outcome of the war.

[Mudboy Slim]

Another view, over 100 years later....

"The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down"
by J.R.Robertson. Album: The Band
© 1970 Canaan Music, Inc.

Virgil Caine is the name, and I served on the Danville train,
'Til Stoneman's cavalry came and tore up the tracks again.
In the winter of '65, We were hungry, just barely alive.
By May the tenth, Richmond had fell, it's a time I remember, oh so well,

(Chorus)
The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down, and the bells were ringing,
The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down, and the people were singin'. They went
La, La, La, La, La, La, La, La, La, La, La, La, La, La,

Back with my wife in Tennessee, When one day she called to me,
"Virgil, quick, come see, there goes Robert E. Lee!"
Now I don't mind choppin' wood, and I don't care if the money's no good.
Ya take what ya need and ya leave the rest,
But they should never have taken the very best.

(Chorus)
The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down, and the bells were ringing,
The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down, and the people were singin'. They went
La, La, La, La, La, La, La, La, La, La, La, La, La, La,

Like my father before me, I will work the land,
Like my brother above me, who took a rebel stand.
He was just eighteen, proud and brave, But a Yankee laid him in his grave,
I swear by the mud below my feet,
You can't raise a Caine back up when he's in defeat.

(Chorus and fade)
The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down, and the bells were ringing,
The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down, and the people were singin'. They went
La, La, La, La, La, La, La, La, La, La, La, La, La, La,

FReegards...MUD

[snippy_about_it]

I agree, I enjoy the discussion and the puzzle. I just wish I had more time for theory because the possibilities are interesting.

What I'd really love to do is have us all get together and sit around in a big living room with coffee in hand and talk about it long into the night, heck maybe til morning!

I love the discussions we have at the Foxhole. We really should consider a field trip of some kind. Geographically I'll have to find out where most of the Foxhole "family" lives.

[snippy_about_it]

Great song! I like Robbie.

Thanks.

[carton253]

I'm in Cincinnati.

My great,great grandfathers were from Kentucky and served with the Union army in Tennessee.

But my heart belongs with Jackson, Stuart, Pickett, and Lee!

[HiJinx]

Hmmm...amazing how 'popular history' can get the facts turned all catawampus on you.

I'll have to have a conversation with Dad's family to see what they think of Sherman. I doubt I'll be able to take the point of view your post this morning does. Then again, being from Mississippi and Alabama, I might.

[Valin]

On This Day In History


Birthdates which occurred on December 23:
1174 Louis I Duke of Wittelsbach
1544 Anna duchess of Saxson/wife of prince Willem of Orange (1561-71)
1732 Richard Arkwright, inventor (spinning frame)
1805 Joseph Smith Jr, Sharon Vt, founder (Mormon Church)
1818 David Addison Weisiger Brigadier-General (Confederate Army), died in 1899
1834 Thomas R Malthus, English vicar/economist (moral restraint)
1853 Giacomo Puccini Italy, composer
1885 Vincent Sardi (restaurateur: Sardi's Bar & Grill - New York)
1907 Don McNeill (radio host: The Breakfast Club
1918 Helmut Schmidt, Chancellor of Germany
1918 Jose Greco (Flamenco dancer)
1923 Bob Barker Darrington WA, TV host (Price is Right)
1923 James Stockdale admiral (Vietnam)/Ross Perot's 1992 running mate
1924 Dan Devine (football coach)
1924 Floyd Kalber (newscaster)
1926 Robert Bly, US, (poet/editor/translator)
1929 Dick Weber (bowler)
1932 Reverend James Cleveland Chicago IL, gospel musician (Old Time Religion, It's Me O Lord)
1935 Paul Hornung ('The Golden Boy': football: Green Bay Packers')

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Deaths which occurred on December 23:
0558 Childebert king of France (511-58), dies at about 62
1569 St Philip, metropolitan of Moscow, martyred by Ivan the Terrible
1588 Henri de Guise, French leader of Catholic League, murdered at 37
1652 John Cotton Massachusetts Bay Puritan preacher, dies at 68
1939 Anthony H G Fokker, Dutch airplane builder, dies at 49
1948 Hideki Tojo, Japan PM (1941-44) & 6 Japanese, hanged for war crimes at 64
1959 Edward Halifax English viscount/viceroy of India, dies at 78
1972 Charles Atlas, [Angelo Siciliano], body builder, dies at 79
1975 Richard S Welch, CIA station chief in Athens, shot dead
1982 Jack Webb, actor (Joe Friday-Dragnet), dies of a heart attack at 62

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Reported: MISSING in ACTION
1965 SHANKEL WILLIAM L.---SAN ANDREAS CA.
[02/12/73 RELEASED BY DRV, ALIVE AND WELL 98]
1966 REEVES JOHN HOWARD---CANADA
1970 BOOTH GARY P.---OLYMPIA WA.
[ACFT BROKE UP, SAR NEG]
1970 MC ANDREWS MICHAEL W.---FORT LAUDERDALE FL.
[ACFT BROKE UP, SAR NEG]
1970 WISEMAN BAIN W. JR.---TRUTH OR CONSEQUENCE NM.
[ACFT BROKE UP, SAR NEG]

POW / MIA Data & Bios supplied by
the P.O.W. NETWORK. Skidmore, MO. USA.

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On this day...
0619 Boniface V begins his reign as Catholic Pope
1482 Peace of Atrecht
1569 St Philip of Moscow martyred by Ivan the Terrible
1620 French huguenots declare war on King Louis XIII
1672 Giovanni Cassini discovers Rhea, a satellite of Saturn
1688 English king Jacob II flees to France
1690 John Flamsteed observes Uranus without realizing it's undiscovered
1724 Emperor Charles VI names Maria Elisabeth land guardian of Australia Netherlands
1728 Prussian Emperor Karel VI sign Treaty of Berlin
1751 France sets plan to tax clergymen
1776 Continental Congress negotiates a war loan of $181,500 from France
1776 Thomas Paine writes The Crisis ("These are the times that try men's souls")
1779 Benedict Arnold court-martialed for improper conduct
1788 Maryland votes to cede a 10 square mile area for District of Columbia
1823 "Visit from St Nicholas" by C Moore published in Troy (New York) Sentinel
1834 Joseph Hansom of London receives patent for Hansom cabs
1852 1st Chinese theater in US, Celestial John, opens in San Francisco
1861 Lord Lyons, The British minister to America presents a formal complaint to secretary of state, William Seward, regarding the Trent affair
1862 Union General Ben "Beast" Butler is proclaimed a "felon, outlaw & common enemy of mankind" by Jefferson Davis
1867 1st self-made millionairess (Sarah Breedlove-hair straightener)
1876 Turkey's 1st constitution proclaimed
1888 Dutch painter Vincent van Gogh cuts off his left ear
1893 The opera "Hansel und Gretel" is produced (Weimar)
1899 Tentative Turkish & German treaty on construction of Baghdad railway
1909 Albert becomes king of Belgium
1912 1st "Keystone Kops" film, titled "Hoffmeyer's Legacy"
1912 Aswan Dam in Nile begins operation
1913 President Woodrow Wilson signs Federal Reserve Act into law
1919 1st hospital ship built to move wounded naval personnel launched
1919 Alice H Parker patents gas heating furnace
1920 Ireland divided into 2 parts, each with its own parliament
1920 King George V signs Home Rule Act
1921 President Warren G. Harding frees Socialist Eugene Debs and 23 other political prisoners.
1922 BBC Radio began daily newscasts
1922 Pope Pius XI pleas for peace: encyclical Ubi arcano
1925 Sultan Ibn Saud of Nedzjed conquers Djeddah
1926 KEX-AM in Portland OR begins radio transmissions
1928 NBC sets up a permanent, coast-to-coast radio network
1933 Howie Morenz takes over NHL career goal lead at 251
1933 Marinus van der Lubbe sentenced to death
1933 Train crash in Eastern Paris; 230 die
1938 Margaret Hamilton's Wicked Witch of the West costume catches fire in filming of "Wizard of Oz"; she is severely burned and off the film for over one month
1939 Finnish counter offensive at Summa
1941 American forces on Wake Island surrender to Japanese
1941 British troops overrun Benghazi Libya
1941 Japan begins assault on Rangoon Burma
1943 1st telecast of a complete opera (Hansel & Gretel), Schenectady NY
1943 General Montgomery told he is appointed commandant for D-day
1944 General Dwight D. Eisenhower confirms the death sentence of Private Eddie Slovik, the only American shot for desertion since the Civil War.
1945 Frederick Astons "Cinderella" premieres in London
1945 Pope Pius XII encyclical Orientals omnes, about Rutheense church
1946 University of Tennessee refuses to play Duquesne University, because they may use a black player in their basketball game
1946 Belgian Council of State forms
1946 Highest ridership in NYC subway history (8.8 million passengers)
1947 Transistor invented by Bardeen, Brattain & Shockley in Bell Labs
1951 1st coast-to-coast televised football game (Dumont paid $75,000); Los Angeles Rams beat Cleveland Browns 24-17 in NFL championship game
1951 Last Belgian communities get electricity
1958 Abdallah Ibrahim forms government of Morocco
1960 De Quay's Dutch government falls
1961 Fidel Castro announces Cuba will release 1,113 prisoners from failed 1961 Bay of Pigs Invasion for $62 million worth of food & medical supplies
1961 KICU TV channel 43 in Visalia-Fresno CA (IND) begins broadcasting
1962 Cuba starts returning US prisoners from the Bay of Pigs invasion
1962 Dallas Texans beat Houston Oilers 20-17 in AFL championship game
1963 Beach Boys 1st appearance on "Shindig"
1963 Fire on Greek ship Laconia, 128 die
1964 India & Ceylon hit by cyclone, about 4,850 killed
1967 Lyndon B Johnson meets Pope Paul VI at the Vatican
1967 Brussels: NATO-Council accept "Flexible Response" - strategy
1968 1st documented US case of space motion sickness
1968 82 members of US intelligence ship 'Pueblo' released by North Korea
1968 Borman, Lovell & Anders become 1st men to orbit Moon
1968 North Korea releases Pueblo crew
1970 7,511th performance of Agatha Christie's "Mousetrap" (record)
1970 New York World Trade Center reaches highest point (411 m)
1972 "Immaculate Reception" Steelers turns around a 7-6 defeat with a last second touchdown reception against the Raiders to win 13-7
1972 16 plane crash survivors rescued after 70 days, survived by cannibalism
1972 6.25 Earthquake destroys central Managua Nicaragua, 10,000 die
1973 "The Young and the Restless" premieres on TV
1973 6 Persian Gulf nations double their oil prices
1974 The B-1 bomber makes its first successful test flight
1975 Congress passes Metric Conversion Act
1978 Islanders score 7 goals in 1 period against the Rangers.
1979 New York Islanders greatest shutout lose (8-0) vs Chicago Black Hawks
1983 Journal Science publishes 1st report on nuclear winter
1986 Rutan & Yeager make 1st around-the-world flight without refueling
1987 Lynette "Squeaky" Fromme, serving a life sentence for attempted assassination of President Gerald R Ford escapes from Alderson Prison
1990 Slovenians vote to secede from Yugoslavia
1994 Baseball owners impose salary cap, fiercely opposed by players
1996 4 women ordained priests in Jamaica, 1st in 330-year Anglican history
1997 Chicago Bull coach Phil Jackson is quickest to reach 500 wins (682 games)
1997 Terry Nichols found guilty of manslaughter in Oklahoma bombing
1997 US Agriculture Department estimates it costs $149,820 to raise a child to 18

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Holidays
Note: Some Holidays are only applicable on a given "day of the week"

Egypt : Victory Day
Montego Bay Jamaica : John Canoe Day
Mexico : Night of the Radishes
Colorectal Cancer Awareness Month

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Religious Observances
Roman Catholic : Commemoration of St Thorlac, bishop, patron of Iceland
Roman Catholic : Memorial of St John of Kanty, Polish priest, theologian (optional)
Fourth Day of Hanukkah

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Religious History
1648 Birth of Robert Barclay, Scottish Quaker theologian. He published his most famous work, "An Apology for the True Christian Divinity," in 1676, making him the most prominent theologian in the early Quaker Church.
1790 Birth of Jean Francois Champollion, French Egyptologist. In 1822 he successfully decoded the hieroglyphics of the Rosetta Stone (uncovered in 1799), and is recognized today as the founder of modern Egyptology.
1841 Birth of Handley C.G. Moule, Anglican theologian. He succeeded B.F. Westcott in 1901 as Bishop of Durham. A profound scholar, he could nevertheless speak and write for ordinary people, and published commentaries on nearly all of Paul's letters in the New Testament.
1862 Birth of Amos R. Wells, American Christian educator. He was first editorial secretary of the newly organized Christian Endeavor Society (forerunner of modern church "youth fellowships") from 1891 until his death in 1933.
1950 Pope Pius XII declared that the tomb of St. Peter had been discovered beneath St. Peter's Basilica in Rome.

Source: William D. Blake. ALMANAC OF THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH. Minneapolis: Bethany House, 1987.

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Thought for the day :
"If it weren't for the last minute, I wouldn't get anything done."

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Qusetion of the day...
When they first invented the clock, how did they know what time it was to set it to?

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Murphys Law of the day...(Ehrlich's Rule)
The first rule of intelligent tinkering is to save all the parts.

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Amazing fact #101,937...
The Saturn V moon rocket consumed 15 tons of fuel per second.

[billbears]

William Gilmore Simms places the blame for the holocaust of Columbia on the Commander-in-Chief of the occupying army, William Tecumseh Sherman. He also puts to rest claims that retreating Confederates set the fires or that they were accidentally started by an unruly group of drunken soldiers. His recital of events makes it crystal clear that the Union officers, especially General Sherman, had control of the troops at all times and knew what was happening in every quarter of the city. Throughout the inferno, General Sherman was frequently spotted riding through the city, observing what was happening but making no attempt to stop it.

Any discussion of Sherman’s culpability in the burning of Columbia should mention his pre-war opinions of Southerners, especially South Carolinians; opinions he formed while stationed there in 1843. "This state, their aristocracy, their patriarchal chivalry and glory-all trash." But Sherman was alarmed by what he called South Carolina "young bloods" who were "brave, fine riders, bold to rashness and dangerous in every sense." His solution was, incredibly, that "the present class of men who rule the South must be killed outright."

Sherman the Pyromaniac

Sherman himself certainly did not believe that "each man is as good as another." For example, in 1862 Sherman was bothered that "the country" was "swarming with dishonest Jews" (see Michael Fellman, Citizen Sherman, p. 153). He got his close friend, General Grant, to expel all Jews from his army. As Fellman writes, "On December 17, 1862, Grant . . . , like a medieval monarch . . . expelled ‘The Jews, as a class,’ from his department." Sherman biographer Fellman further writes that to Sherman, the Jews were "like n*ggers" and "like greasers (Mexicans) or Indians" in that they were "classes or races permanently inferior to his own."

How lincoln’s Army 'Liberated' the Indians

What a role model...< /sarcasm>

[Mudboy Slim]

De nada, s_a_i...MUD

[4CJ]

When one writes the name of the Union General, proper Southern ettiquette demands it be posted thusly: Sherman (*spit*)

[Reaganwuzthebest]

Was this contest hopeless against the great resources of the North? We shall have more to say on this, and it can be argued that the war could have been won by the South...

Yes the South could have won if they had fought a guerilla style war, other than that they didn't have a chance. The North had all the men and the cannon.

The only thing that kept it going as long as it did was the North had terrible generals.

[Valin]

Have fun...play nice..be good!

Well not TOO good.