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The FReeper Foxhole Revisits The Ploesti Raid - (Aug. 1, 1943) - May 15th, 2004
see educational sources

Posted on 05/15/2004 12:00:14 AM PDT by snippy_about_it



Lord,

Keep our Troops forever in Your care

Give them victory over the enemy...

Grant them a safe and swift return...

Bless those who mourn the lost.
.

FReepers from the Foxhole join in prayer
for all those serving their country at this time.



...................................................................................... ...........................................

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The FReeper Foxhole Revisits


Into the Mouth of Hell


Losses on the first large-scale Ploesti raid were staggering, heroism unsurpassed.

Tradition rests on a foundation of great deeds done together in the past. A keystone of Air Force tradition is the Aug. 1, 1943, bombing attack on oil refineries at Ploesti, about 30 miles north of Bucharest, Romania. That mission stands as a monument not only to the skill and courage of Air Force crews but also to the ability of our combat leaders to pull together strands of a broken plan and salvage limited success from the apparent certainty of disaster.

The Ploesti raid was unique in several respects. It was the first large-scale, low-level strike by heavy bombers against a well-defended target and the longest--1,350 miles from base to bombs-away--of World War II up to that time. For extraordinary heroism that day, five men were awarded the Medal of Honor, a record that may hold for all time.



Why did Ploesti merit that unprecedented effort? In mid-1943, seven refineries in and near the city were producing an estimated 35 percent of Germany's oil and an equal proportion of her aviation gasoline. Some Allied planners thought that destruction of the refineries might even force the Nazis out of the war.

The task force put together for Ploesti was composed of two Ninth Air Force B-24 groups--the 376th and 98th--based in North Africa and three B-24 groups from Eighth Air Force--the 93d, 44th, and the recently arrived 389th--that were moved from their UK bases to fields in North Africa near Benghazi, Libya. The attack was set for Sunday, Aug. 1, in order to minimize casualties among impressed workers at the refineries. It was meticulously planned and thoroughly rehearsed, including two full-scale practice missions against a simulation of the Ploesti targets, laid out in a remote area of the desert.

Surprise and Precision


In concept, if not in execution, the plan of attack was simple, its essence: surprise and precision. The bomber stream would be led by the 376th Group under Col. Keith K. Compton, followed by the 93d, 98th, 44th, and 389th in that order. Specific buildings within the five refineries in Ploesti; the refinery at Campina, 18 miles northwest of the city; and one at Brazi, five miles to the south, were assigned to elements of the five groups.



The task force, totaling 177 B-24s with Brig. Gen. Uzal Ent as mission commander flying in Compton's aircraft, would take off between 4 and 5 a.m., fly north in a tight column of groups to Corfu (off the coast of Greece), then climb over the mountains of Albania and Yugoslavia to the Danubian plain, where they would descend below enemy radar coverage. At Pitesti, the first Initial Point (IP), the 389th would break off to the left and proceed to the refinery at Campina.

The four leading groups would drop to 500 feet and continue to the final IP at Floresti, where they would begin a 13-mile bomb run on five refineries in the city and the one at Brazi, descending to treetop level for bomb release. All six refineries would be hit almost simultaneously by a single wave of bombers, flying line-abreast, that would saturate the defenses. That was the plan. Winston Churchill is credited with observing that "in war, nothing ever goes according to plan except occasionally, and then by accident." Ploesti was no exception.



In the long flight over the Mediterranean, the column lost some of its cohesion, with the 376th and 93d Groups slightly ahead of the other three. Then, near Corfu, the lead aircraft with the route navigator went out of control and crashed. (Ent and Compton were not in the lead bomber, but in a position to assume the lead when a final turn to the bomb run was made.) A second 376th aircraft bearing the deputy route navigator followed down to look for survivors. Unable to climb back in time to rejoin the group, it returned to Benghazi.

Now ahead of the formation towering cumulus clouds rose above the mountains. The two lead groups threaded their way through or under the clouds, while the 98th, 44th, and 389th penetrated the cloud line at varying altitudes. By the time those three had reformed a column and resumed a heading for Pitesti, the first two groups were 29 minutes ahead of them.

Because of radio silence, Ent and Compton could not contact the trailing groups. Not knowing whether or not those groups had turned back, they decided to follow the operations order even though they might have to go it alone. Thus, the five groups actually proceeded toward Pitesti as two widely separated forces. A surprise attack on the refineries in Ploesti by a single wave of some 140 bombers, that dominant key to success at an acceptable cost, was beyond redemption.

The Wrong Turn




The chain of circumstance was not yet complete. The 376th and 93d Groups made their turn at Pitesti and headed for the final IP at Floresti. Halfway between the two IPs lay the town of Targoviste, which closely resembled Floresti. Flying at very low altitude, the 376th mistook Targoviste for the IP and turned southeast on the briefed bomb-run heading, which took the two groups to the west of Ploesti--an error that wasn't discovered until they were on the outskirts of Bucharest. At that point, Ent broke radio silence, ordering the two groups to turn north and attack targets of opportunity in the complex of refineries.

The 93d Group, led by Lt. Col. Addison E. Baker, a National Guard officer who had been called to active duty in 1940, caught a glimpse of refineries off to the left. He and his pilot, Maj. John Jerstad, who had completed his combat tour but volunteered for the mission, bored in on an unidentified refinery, which turned out to be Columbia Aquila, a 44th Group target. Enemy defenses, much heavier than anticipated, were thoroughly aroused. More than 230 antiaircraft guns, supported by many barrage balloons and smoke pots, surrounded the refineries, with perhaps 400 fighters in the area.



Into a maelstrom of ground fire, Baker led the group. Short of the refinery, his B-24 was hit and burst into flames. Baker and Jerstad could have bellied in on open fields or pulled up to bailout altitude and probably saved themselves and their crew. But this was a mission on which some thought the outcome of the war might hinge. Without wavering, they led the bombers straight on to the refinery before crashing into the ground. Both Baker and Jerstad were awarded the Medal of Honor posthumously.

Off to the right of their funeral pyre, a second element of the 93d bombed two refineries assigned to the 98th Group. Meanwhile, five B-24s of the 376th Group led by Maj. Norman C. Appold hit the Concordia Vega refinery, originally assigned to the 93d, and "emerged covered with soot" as other 376th bombers unloaded on various segments of the Ploesti complex.



While the 376th and 93d were making the best of a bad situation, the other three, led by veteran pilot Col. John R. "Killer" Kane, commander of the 98th, turned at Pitesti as planned. The tail-end 389th under Col. Jack Wood broke off to the northeast, bombing the refinery at Campina to complete destruction. Four aircraft were lost to flak, one of them piloted by 21-year-old 2d Lt. Lloyd H. Hughes, who was on his fifth combat mission. His B-24, hit by ground fire, leaked streams of gasoline from wing and bomb-bay tanks.

Below lay wheat fields, where Hughes could have landed, but instead he drove on through the smoke and flame created by the bombers ahead of him, struck his target, and came out with his left wing sheathed in flame. His desperate attempt to save the crew by crash-landing on a lake bed failed when one wing of the blazing B-24 hit a river bank and the plane exploded. The mission's third posthumous Medal of Honor was awarded to Hughes.






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KEYWORDS: 8thairforce; 9thairforce; freeperfoxhole; history; ploesti; samsdayoff; usaaf; veterans; wwii
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No Turning Back


When Kane's 98th Group and the 44th, commanded by Col. Leon W. Johnson, a 1936 graduate of the Military Academy, turned at Floresti on their bomb run, they saw ahead columns of black smoke laced with flames and torn by explosions, the result of bombs dropped by the 376th and 93d Groups minutes earlier.

Both men knew that beneath those black clouds, which hid barrage balloon cables and tall chimneys, lay many delayed-action bombs that would detonate at random. With only about half the number of bombers planned for a simultaneous attack, enemy defenses would be far from saturated. They would have been fully justified in abandoning the attack. The probability of survival was low, but the rewards of success could be immeasurably high. For those two courageous leaders there was no turning back.



Kane led 41 of his B-24s straight into a scene that resembled the background of a medieval painting of hell, losing 15 Liberators to flak and fighters in the target area and three more to fighters over Bulgaria. His own plane, with one engine out at Ploesti and fatal battle damage from flak, was demolished in a crash landing at an Allied field on Cyprus.

Johnson, followed by 15 of his 44th Group crews, flew through flak, explosions, heavy smoke, and blistering heat, avoiding by a hair some 376th Group B-24s that were coming off a target, and successfully attacked the already burning Columbia Aquila refinery. Only nine of the 16 survived the gauntlet of fire. Johnson's plane was hit repeatedly, but made it back to Benghazi more than 13 hours after takeoff. While he was attacking his target, 21 of his B-24s led by Lt. Col. James Posey had a clear shot at the untouched refinery at Brazi, which they leveled, but lost two aircraft to fighters on the way home.



Both Jonson, now a retired four-star general, and Kane were awarded the Medal of Honor for their courageous decision to press on, regardless of the consequences, against targets the planners had considered so important as to justify the loss of half the attacking force. In fact, more than 30 percent of the B-24s that reached the target area were lost to enemy action or landed in neutral Turkey with battle damage and were interned.*



There are enough other stories of heroism on that mission to fill a book. The Distinguished Service Cross, second highest decoration for valor, was awarded to several men, among them Ent, Compton, Wood, Posey, Appold, and then-Capt. William R. Cameron of the 44th Group, like John Jerstad a volunteer for the mission.

Improvisation and raw courage overcame the vagaries of war--inaccuarate intelligence on enemy defenses, unforeseen weather, human error--and a plan that perhaps demanded too much of too many in a strategy and tactic that had not been tried before. We honor the men who met the tests and trials of an historic mission and the nearly 500 who did not come back that day.

The Results.
Two of the 7 assigned targets were not bombed, and 'in the next month their oil production 'increased from 47% of capacity to 92%. Four targets were hit by planes from different groups. Two were damaged, production falling from 66% to 28%, and two were completely shut down, one for 4 months and one for 11 months. Creditul Minier was shut down permanently.

The Cost.
Of the 162 raiders to reach Ploesti (3 crashed and 13 aborted en route), 51 were lost and 22 landed (or crashed) at Allied bases on Malta, Sicily, and Cyprus. Of the 89 Liberators that returned to Benghazi that day, only 31 were flyable.



Today's Educational Sources and suggestions for further reading:
www.b17sam.com/ploesti.html
www.usaaf.net/ww2/africa/africapg5.htm
www.afa.org/magazine/valor/0988valor.html
1 posted on 05/15/2004 12:00:14 AM PDT by snippy_about_it
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To: All
At first light on August 1, 1943 a force of 178 B-24 Liberator bombers lifted off dusty airstrips in the Libyan desert. They were to fly a 2000 mile round-trip deep into enemy territory, bomb a heavily defended target, and return to their North African base - without fighter escort. So began one of the bloodiest and heroic missions in the annals of aerial warfare. The target - the oil refineries at Ploesti.



One third of Germany's petroleum products were supplied from Ploesti, situated deep in Rumania and well beyond the range of Allied bombers based in England. Deprived of this vital supply of fuel, Germany's mighty war machine would grind to a halt. The high command were aware of this and the installations at Ploesti were defended accordingly. To attack such a heavily defended target with the required degree of accuracy it was necessary to bomb from a perilously low level, a task for which the B-24 was notoriously unsuited. The mission called for inspired leadership, cool determination and courage beyond the call of duty - and all of these were given in plenty.



As the first wave of bombers roared into the target, some as low as 50 feet, the German defenses opened up with a barrage of fire. Within moments the entire area erupted with exploding bombs, bursting shells, gushing flames and billowing palls of smoke. One by one the gallant crews took their aircraft through the intense wall of Ack-Ack and 88mm ground fire, and into the burning inferno to deliver their deadly cargo.

Of the 178 B-24s dispatched, 52 were lost and all but 35 aircraft suffered damage, one limping home after 14 hours and holed in 365 places. Ploesti witnessed countless acts of heroism, for which the crews received more decorations for bravery than any other mission of the war.

2 posted on 05/15/2004 12:00:35 AM PDT by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: All
'Nice job, Brereton, but you lost too many.'

-- Berlin Sally's succinct, accurate appraisal of the raid

'We went out to Ploesti in 27 planes one day in 1943, only 14 came back. I was 19 years old. I was a ball gunner.'

-- A B24 Ball Turret Gunner
at Veterans Reunion


3 posted on 05/15/2004 12:01:02 AM PDT by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: All


Consolidated Aircraft Company built the plane. It was powered by four 1200 horsepower Pratt & Whitney “Twin Wasp” 14 cylinder radial engines and had a maximum speed of 303 mph at 25,000 feet. It could carry eight, 1100 pound bombs and had a range of 2300 miles. It had a 110-foot wingspan, a length of 66 feet, height of 18 feet and weighed 32,605 pounds empty.

4 posted on 05/15/2004 12:01:44 AM PDT by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: All
Two older men in the Museum book shop were talking about flying in WW-II. I asked one, "What did you fly?" "`24s," he said. "In the Pacific?" I wondered. "No, we flew out of Italy -- over Ploesti." My jaw dropped, for I knew what that meant.

But I'm ahead of my story. We'd just been through Galveston's Lone Star Flight Museum - their fine collection of WW-II airplanes. It was a remarkable experience walking among all those machines that'd lain at the center of my childhood -- airplanes I'd never seen so close up. Background speakers played Glenn Miller music.

A small but important item on the hangar floor was an old car with an A-sticker on its window. "A" was the tightest gasoline rationing level. This war was fueled by petroleum and gasoline was precious. Germany got petrol from the Ploesti oil fields in eastern Romania. Hitler had said that if the Ploesti refineries were destroyed, the damage would be beyond repair.

So damage them we must. But how? They lay out of reach of Allied bombers. Two elements finally came together in 1943. First the British and Americans took North Africa. Second, the Americans brought in the B-24 heavy bomber -- the Liberator.



The B-24 was designed more for range than bomb capacity. It had a nominal range of 3500 miles and now it was available.

The first great Ploesti raid left from Benghazi in Libya on Sunday, August 1st, when few Romanians would be at work. 1726 men took off in 177 B-24s, overloaded with defensive armor.

The first casualty on that 2700-mile trip was a plane that crashed on takeoff, killing all hands. The planes attacked Ploesti at treetop level -- flying into flak, machine gun fire, fighters, and barrage balloons. Their aim was no less than to shut off German petrol supplies. But things went wrong. The element of surprise was lost. Airplanes were shot down over the oil fields and on the way back. American losses approached 800 men. Estimates of lost airplanes are uncertain -- maybe 70 heavy bombers.

In the end, we paid a terrible price for shutting off sixty percent of Germany's oil -- and then we only turned it off for a while. What we did in 1943 we had to do again -- and again.

And I'm back to that museum shop. "We went out to Ploesti in 27 planes one day in 1944," the man said. "Only 14 came back. I was 19 years old. I was a ball gunner.

He left me at a loss for words, trying to add it all up. He'd flown 51 missions -- dangling out in the flak in that bubble on the plane's belly, with only luck to protect him. I'm five years younger than he -- that close to having been in that, or in some other, shooting gallery myself. But it'd been him, not me. I had momentarily brushed up against heroism, a virtue we find all too hard to believe in today. And it had been heroism on my behalf.

John H. Lienhard

5 posted on 05/15/2004 12:02:27 AM PDT by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: All

Coming Back is Secondary
The Final Mission of the Vulgar Virgin







A NEW FEATURE ~ The Foxhole Revisits...

The Foxhole will be updating some of our earlier threads with new graphics and some new content for our Saturday threads in this, our second year of the Foxhole. We lost many of our graphic links and this is our way of restoring them along with revising the thread content where needed with new and additional information not available in the original threads.

A Link to the Original Thread;

The FReeper Foxhole Remembers The Ploesti Raid - Aug. 1, 1943 - Jan. 27th, 2003




6 posted on 05/15/2004 12:04:05 AM PDT by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: CarolinaScout; Tax-chick; Don W; Poundstone; Wumpus Hunter; StayAt HomeMother; Ragtime Cowgirl; ...



FALL IN to the FReeper Foxhole!



Good Saturday Morning Everyone.


If you would like added to our ping list let us know.

7 posted on 05/15/2004 12:05:15 AM PDT by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: snippy_about_it

"Hell's Wench," a B-24 badly damaged by anti-aircraft artillery fire, led the 93rd Bombardment Group (Heavy) in its daring low-level attack on the oil refineries at Ploesti, Romania, which supplied two-thirds of Germany's petroleum production at that stage of World War II. Lt. Col. Addison E. Baker, an Ohio National Guardsman who commanded the 93rd, ignored the fact he was flying over terrain suitable for safe landing. He refused to break up the lead formation by landing, and led his group to the target upon which he dropped his bombs with devastating effect. Then he left the formation, but his valiant attempts to gain enough altitude for the crew to escape by parachute failed and the aircraft crashed. For their gallant leadership and extraordinary flying skill, both Baker and his pilot, Maj. John L. Jerstad, received the Medal of Honor, posthumously. The raid, nicknamed "Operation Tidalwave," was costly, with 54 of the 177 bombers lost and 532 of the 1,726 personnel engaged listed as dead, missing or interned. Baker's service epitomized the role of National Guard aviators during World War II. Because of their experience, most of them were transferred from their 29 pre-war observation squadrons after mobilization. As individuals, they helped train and lead the huge numbers of volunteer airmen who served in Army Air Force units during the war. Baker and other Guard aviators carried on a long tradition of dedicated service to the states and nation.


8 posted on 05/15/2004 12:05:38 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Vengence is mine says the Lord, but I'm busy, so I sent the US Marines.)
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To: SAMWolf

Nice map, cool paintings. Thanks Sam and nighty night. ;-)


9 posted on 05/15/2004 12:07:13 AM PDT by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: snippy_about_it

Good Night Snippy.


10 posted on 05/15/2004 12:07:34 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Vengence is mine says the Lord, but I'm busy, so I sent the US Marines.)
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To: snippy_about_it; SAMWolf; JulieRNR21; Vets_Husband_and_Wife; Cinnamon Girl; Alamo-Girl; Bigg Red; ..
Hiya Kids,

just sticking my head into the FOXHOLE for a minute .... where's the BEER?

Keep up the GOOD WORK! And watch for my after action report on VetsCoR's booth at FreedomFest 2004 .... coming next week ...... with pictures!!!!!

±

"The Era of Osama lasted about an hour, from the time the first plane hit the tower to the moment the General Militia of Flight 93 reported for duty."
Toward FREEDOM

11 posted on 05/15/2004 12:15:05 AM PDT by Neil E. Wright (An oath is FOREVER)
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To: Neil E. Wright; Darksheare

Hi Neil. I think all the beer is in Darksheare's hole.


12 posted on 05/15/2004 12:36:07 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Vengence is mine says the Lord, but I'm busy, so I sent the US Marines.)
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To: snippy_about_it
What a story. My first thought when I read it was "How the heck did they find their targets after navigating by DED reckoning all that way."

People think navigating an aircraft over unfamiliar territory is like driving to the supermarket. It's not - even with navaids, things look "different" up there. Not to mention that you are a little busy flying the plane and monitoring the engine(s).

That's why I get so pi$$ed when people want to shoot down private planes that stray over some imaginary line in the sky. It happens.

13 posted on 05/15/2004 2:57:07 AM PDT by snopercod (It ain't over until I say it's over.)
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To: snippy_about_it

Good morning, Snippy and everyone at the Foxhole.


14 posted on 05/15/2004 3:05:27 AM PDT by E.G.C.
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To: snippy_about_it
My father's leather A-2 flight jacket from the 376th Bomb Group, 512th Squadron:


15 posted on 05/15/2004 3:13:17 AM PDT by Godebert
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To: snippy_about_it; SAMWolf; radu; PhilDragoo; Professional Engineer; All

Good Saturday morning everyone.

16 posted on 05/15/2004 6:20:44 AM PDT by Soaring Feather (~The Dragon Flies' Lair~ Poetry and Prose~)
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To: snippy_about_it; SAMWolf; All
I have found the Book of the Law in the house of the Lord. —2 Kings 22:8


I entered the world's great library doors;
I crossed their acres of polished floors;
I searched and searched their stacks and nooks,
And settled at last on the Book of books.

The Bible is old, but its truths are always new.

17 posted on 05/15/2004 7:13:16 AM PDT by The Mayor (When life knocks you to your knees, you're in a good position to pray)
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To: snippy_about_it
Flying the Ploesti mission was rough. The one half losses is about expectable. The Liberators of 1943 burned up pretty badly as I recall, also. Very slow, as was the B-17. Navigation would be tough, especially in daylight, without meticulous reconnaissance photography. Only navigation aid was probably high frequency radio direction finding - HF DF - "Huff Duff".

The Pratt Twin Wasp used in the Liberator is a major milestone on the radial aircraft engine road. Very good engine, reliable. Not as powerful as really needed for the war, though.

The Pratt R-2800 was the star of the World War aero engines with over 2,000 horsepower. The R-4360, a post war development, ah, now that was an engine. Turbo compounded about 3,800 horse power.

Seriously, if it was my responsibility to specify engines for a new work, as opposed to toy, aircraft, I would of course use modern turbine engines. The Pratt PT-6 series will do anything any WWII radial can do with much greater reliability, lower cost, and weight. Radials are as obsolete as reciprocating steam engines. And the PT-6 is truly beautifully made, like all of the Pratt stuff.
18 posted on 05/15/2004 7:40:59 AM PDT by Iris7 (If "Iris7" upsets or intrigues you, see my Freeper home page for a nice explanatory essay.)
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To: snippy_about_it

Morning, all! Billy will enjoy those pictures!


19 posted on 05/15/2004 8:11:51 AM PDT by Tax-chick (It's possible that I look exactly like Catherine Zeta-Jones.)
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To: Neil E. Wright

Thanks for the ping!


20 posted on 05/15/2004 8:29:03 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: snopercod

Morning snopercod. Lot of hard work went into navigating in those days. No GPS and beacons for you to follow to the target.


21 posted on 05/15/2004 8:35:50 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Vengence is mine says the Lord, but I'm busy, so I sent the US Marines.)
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To: E.G.C.

Good Morning E.G.C.


22 posted on 05/15/2004 8:36:07 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Vengence is mine says the Lord, but I'm busy, so I sent the US Marines.)
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To: Godebert
Morning Godebert. I thank you father for his service. Thanks for sharing the picture with us.

During four years of operations, the 376th and its parent units became integral elements of the 9th, 12th, and 15th Air Forces. The Group flew 451 missions, was awarded three Distinguished Unit Citations and earned 15 campaign awards. The Liberandos destroyed 220 enemy aircraft in aerial combat and suffered casualties totalling 1479 officers and enlisted personnel and 169 aircraft.

23 posted on 05/15/2004 8:43:55 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Vengence is mine says the Lord, but I'm busy, so I sent the US Marines.)
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To: bentfeather

Good Morning Feather.


24 posted on 05/15/2004 8:44:15 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Vengence is mine says the Lord, but I'm busy, so I sent the US Marines.)
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To: The Mayor

Morning Mayor. I really really need that coffee this morning.


25 posted on 05/15/2004 8:44:54 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Vengence is mine says the Lord, but I'm busy, so I sent the US Marines.)
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To: Iris7
Morning Iris7.

The Pratt PT-6 series will do anything any WWII radial can do with much greater reliability, lower cost, and weight. Radials are as obsolete as reciprocating steam engines.

But, but, but!! Nothing sounds like a Radial engine. Watched a show on the P-51 last night. Hearing those bomber fleets sends a chill down my spine.

26 posted on 05/15/2004 8:47:54 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Vengence is mine says the Lord, but I'm busy, so I sent the US Marines.)
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To: Tax-chick

Morning Tax-chick. Morning Billy!


27 posted on 05/15/2004 8:48:33 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Vengence is mine says the Lord, but I'm busy, so I sent the US Marines.)
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To: Alamo-Girl

Morning Alamo-girl. Thanks for the bump.


28 posted on 05/15/2004 8:49:03 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Vengence is mine says the Lord, but I'm busy, so I sent the US Marines.)
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To: snippy_about_it

On This Day In History


Birthdates which occurred on May 15:
1565 Henrick de Keyser architect/master builder of Amsterdam
1567 Claudio Giovanni Antonio Monteverdi Cremona Italy, composer (L'Orfeo)
1802 Isaac Ridgeway Trimble Major General (Confederate Army), died in 1888
1810 Jacob Thompson (Confederacy), died in 1885
1819 Thomas Leonidas Crittenden Major General (Union volunteers)
1830 Laurence Simmons Baker Brigadier General (Confederate Army), died in 1907
1845 Ilja [Elias] Metsjnikov USSR, zoologist/bacteriologist (Nobel 1908)
1856 Lyman Frank Baum Chittenango NY, children's book author (Wizard of Oz)
1860 Ellen Louise Axson Wilson 1st wife of Woodrow Wilson
1880 Otto Dibelius German theologist/bishop (Confessional Church)
1889 Bessie Hillman founder (Almalgamated Clothing Workers of America)
1890 Katherine Anne Porter US, novelist (Ship of Fools)
1891 Chief Nipo T Strongheart Yakima WA, US Indian actor (Pony Soldier)
1894 Jean Renoir French director (La Béte Humane) [or Sept 15]
1895 Charles Lamont San Fransisco CA, director (Abbott & Costello Go to Mars)
1902 Richard J Daley (Mayor-D-Chicago)
1905 Joseph Cotten Petersburg VA, actor (3rd Man, Airport 77, Hearse)
1909 James Mason England, actor (Lolita, Bloodline, Boys From Brazil)
1910 Robert F Wagner (Mayor-D-NYC, 1949-65)
1918 Eddy Arnold Henderson TN, country singer (Cattle Call, Anytime)
1921 Erroll Garner Pittsburgh PA, jazz pianist (Misty)
1922 Enrico Berlinguer Italian communist/secretary-general (CPI)
1923 Richard Avedon US, photographer (1957 ASMP award)
1926 Anthony Shaffer twin brother playwright (Sleuth)
1926 Peter Shaffer twin brother playwright (5 Finger Exercise, Equus)
1930 Jasper Johns Augusta GA, painter/sculptor (Green Target)
1936 Anna Maria Alberghetti Italy, actress/singer (Cinderfella)
1936 Donald [Anthony] Moffitt US, sci-fi author (Jupiter Theft)
1937 Trini Lopez Trinidad, singer/guitarist (If I Had a Hammer)
1947 Graham Goble Adelaide Australia, rock guitarist (Little River Band)
1949 Frank L Culbertson Jr Charleston SC, Commander USN/astronaut (STS-38)
1953 George Brett Wheeling WV, Kansas City Royal 3rd baseman (1980 American League MVP)
1953 Mike Oldfield England, composer (Tubular Bells)
1955 Lee Horsley Muleshoe TX, actor (Nero Wolfe, Matt Houston)
1967 John Smoltz Detroit MI, pitcher (Atlanta Braves, 1996 Cy Young)
1969 Emmitt Smith running back (Dallas Cowboys, 3-time NFL rushing leader)
1973 Victoria Davey Spelling Los Angeles CA, actress (Donna-Beverly Hills 90210)
1978 Krissy Taylor model



Deaths which occurred on May 15:
0392 Valentinianus II emperor of Rome (375-392), murdered at 21
0884 Marinus I [Martinus II] Pope (882-84), dies
1174 Nur ad-Din Mahmud King of Syria, dies
1470 Charles VIII Knutsson Bonde, king of Sweden (14??-70), dies
1482 Paolo Toscanelli Italian physician & mapmaker, dies
1873 Alexander J Cuza monarch of Moldavia/Romania, dies at 53
1886 Emily Dickinson US poet, dies at 55
1895 Joseph Whitaker British publisher (Whitaker' Almanack), dies at 75
1926 Mohammed VI Vahideddin last sultan of Turkey (1918-22), dies
1932 Ki Inukai premier Japan (1931-32), murdered
1945 Major Courtney US medal of honor marine, dies in battle of Sugar Loaf
1976 Samuel Eliot Morison US historian (Admiral of Ocean Sea), dies at 88
1986 Theodore H White US journalist (Making of President, Pulitzer), dies at 71
1991 Ronald Lacey actor (Raiders of Lost Ark, Next Victim), dies at 55
1992 Robert Morris Page US physicist (radar), dies at 88


Reported: MISSING in ACTION

1961 MC MORROW JOHN P.
[08/17/62 RELEASED]
1961 SHORE EDWARD R. JR.
[08/15/62 RELEASED AIR AMERICA PILOT]
1961 WOLFKILL GRANT
[08/17/62 RELEASED AIR AMERICA NBC REPORTER?, ALIVE 98]
1966 BALCOM RALPH C.---SEATTLE WA.
[NEGATIVE SAR CONTACT]
1966 JENSEN GEORGE W.---SEATTLE WA.
[REMAINS RETURNED 12/13/99]
1966 MADISON WILLIAM L.---LEXINGTON KY.
[REMAINS RETURNED 12/13/99]
1966 MC KENNEY KENNETH D.---AUBURN MA.
[REMAINS RETURNED 12/13/99]
1966 PRESTON JAMES A.---BOWDEN GA.
[REMAINS RETURNED - DISPUTED 12/13/99]
1966 REILLY LAVERN G.---ST PAUL MN.
[REMAINS RETURNED 12/13/99]
1966 TAPP MARSHALL L.---LOS ANGELES CA.
[REMAINS RETURNED 12/13/99]
1966 THOMPSON GEORGE W.---BECKLEY WV.
[REMAINS RETURNED 12/13/99]
1966 WILLIAMS JAMES E.---OXFORD MS.
[REMAINS RETURNED 12/13/99]
1967 HEILIGER DONALD L.---MADISON WI.
[02/18/73 RELEASED BY DRV, ALIVE AND WELL 98]
1967 HILL CHARLES DALE---ROLLA MO.
1967 POLLARD BEN M.---SHELBYVILLE KY.
[03/04/73 RELEASED BY DRV, ALIVE AND WELL 98]

POW / MIA Data & Bios supplied by
the P.O.W. NETWORK. Skidmore, MO. USA.


On this day...
0756 Abd-al-Rahman I becomes emir of Cordova Spain
0884 Marinus I ends his reign as Catholic Pope
1004 Henry II the Saint crowned king of Italy
1213 English king John names Stephen Langton Archbishop of Canterbury
1248 Archbishop Konrad von Hochstaden lays cornerstone for Köln cathedral
1492 Cheese & Bread rebellion: German mercenaries kills 232 Alkmaarse
1536 Anna Boleyn & Lord Rochford accused of adultery/incest
1567 Mary, Queen of Scots marries James Hepburn, Earl of Bothwell
1602 Cape Cod discovered by English navigator Bartholomew Gosnold
1618 Johannes Kepler discovers harmonics law
1625 16 rebellious farmers hanged in Vöcklamarkt Upper-Austria
1672 1st copyright law enacted by Massachusetts
1702 War of Spanish Succession, 1st American conflict between England & France
1718 James Puckle, a London lawyer, patents world's 1st machine gun
1730 Robert Walpole becomes England 1st prime minister (was chief minister)
1800 King George III survives a 2nd assassination attempt
1800 Pope Pius VII calls on French bishops to return to Gospel principles
1829 Joseph Smith ordained by John the Baptist according to Joseph Smith
1836 Francis Baily observes "Baily's Beads" during annular solar eclipse
1851 Rama IV, [Phra Chomklao Chaoyuhua], king of Thai (1851-68), crowned
1856 2nd San Fransisco Vigilance Committee organized
1862 Battle of Drewry's Bluff (Fort Darling) VA
1862 Battle of Princeton WV
1862 Confederate cruiser The Alabama runs aground near London
1862 Department of Agriculture created
1862 General Benjamin F Butler issues "Woman's Order" - women of New Orleans to be treated as whores as a result of their treatment of Union soldiers
1862 Union Grounds, Brooklyn NY, 1st baseball enclosure, opens
1864 Battle of New Market VA
1864 Battle of Resaca GA (3rd day)
1864 Skirmish at Marksville (Avoyelles) (Red River Campaign)
1876 2nd Kentucky Derby: Bobby Swim aboard Vagrant wins in 2:38¼
1882 May Laws-Czar Alexander III bans Jews from living in rural Romania
1885 Canadian Méti insurgent Louis Riel captured, Saskatchewan
1891 Operations begin at Philips & Company in Holland
1891 Pope Leo XIII publishes encyclical Rerum novarum
1894 20th Kentucky Derby: Frank Goodale aboard Chant wins in 2:41
1896 Tornado kills 78 in Texas
1902 Portugal bankrupt by revolt in Angola
1905 Las Vegas NV founded
1911 Supreme Court dissolves Standard Oil (Sherman Antitrust Act)
1912 Ty Cobb rushes a heckler at a New York Highlander game & is suspended
1916 Asiago Italy falls when Austrian troops attack the Italian front
1918 Washington Senator Walter Johnson pitches 1-0, 18 inning game
1926 52nd Kentucky Derby: Albert Johnson on Bubbling Over wins in 2:03.8
1926 British general strike ends, but mine workers go on strike
1928 Mickey Mouse made his 1st appearance
1929 Fire in X-ray film stock kills 125 at Crile Clinic (Cleveland OH)
1930 Ellen Church becomes 1st airline stewardess, United (San Fransisco to Cheyenne)
1931 Pope Pius XI publishes encyclical Quadragesimo anno
1933 1st voice amplification system to be used in US Senate
1934 Department of Justice offers $25,000 reward for Dillinger, dead or alive
1934 Karlis Ulmanis names himself fascist dictator of Latvia
1940 1st successful helicopter flight in US: Vought-Sikorsky US-300
1940 German armour division moves into Northern France
1940 German troops occupy Amsterdam, General Winkelman surrenders
1940 Nylon stockings go on sale for 1st time (US)
1941 1st British turbojet flies
1941 British attack Halfaya-pass & Fort Capuzzo in Egypt & Libya
1941 Joe DiMaggio starts 56-game hitting streak; Yankees win 13-1
1941 Nazi occupiers in Netherlands forbid Jewish music
1942 Gasoline 1st rationed in US (17 Eastern States)
1943 Halifax bombers sinks U-463
1943 Warsaw ghetto uprising ends, in it's destruction
1944 14,000 Jews of Munkacs Hungary deported to Auschwitz
1948 28 year old British Mandate over Palestine ends
1948 Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq & Saudi-Arabia troops attack Israel
1951 AT&T becomes 1st corporation to have one million stockholders
1953 Heavyweight Rocky Marciano KOs Joe Walcott in Chicago for heavyweight boxing title
1955 Building of space travel center at Baikonur Kazachstan begins
1955 Vienna Treaty: Britain, France, US & USSR restores Austria's independence
1957 18,000 people at Madison Square Garden-Billy Graham launched a crusade
1957 1st British H-bomb explosion (over Christmas Island)
1959 100th anniversary of 1st college baseball game, between Amherst & Williams Teams reenact the original contest
1960 Chicago Cub Don Cardwell no-hits St Louis Cardinals, 4-0
1960 Taxes took ("only")25% of earnings in US
1961 "Bonanza" by Al Caiola Orchestra hits #19
1961 Pope John XXIII publishes encyclical Mater et Magistra
1962 US marines arrive in Laos
1963 Last Project Mercury flight, L Gordon Cooper in Faith 7, launched
1963 Peter, Paul & Mary win their 1st Grammy (If I Had a Hammer)
1966 South Vietnamese army battle Buddhists, about 80 die
1968 1st American League game played in Milwaukee, is a 4-2 California win against Chicago
1968 A tornado strikes Jonesboro AR at 10 PM, killing 36
1968 Paul McCartney & John Lennon appear on Johnny Carson Show to promote Apple records, Joe Garagiola is the substitute host
1969 Associate Justice Abe Fortas resigns from Supreme Court
1970 Beatles' last LP, "Let It Be" is released in US
1970 Elizabeth Hoisington & Anna Mae Mays named 1st female US generals
1972 George Wallace shot & left paralyzed by Arthur Bremer in Laurel MD
1972 Ryukyu Island & Daito Island returned to Japan after 27 years of US control
1973 California Angel Nolan Ryan's 1st no-hitter beats Kansas City Royals, 3-0
1980 1st trans-US balloon crossing
1980 Flyers score 8 goals against Islanders in playoffs
1980 Shawn Weatherly, Sumter SC, crowned 29th Miss USA/Miss Universe-1980
1981 "Harlem Globetrotters on Gilligan's Island" airs
1981 Leonard Barker of Cleveland pitches perfect game vs Toronto
1981 SCTV Network 90, sequel to Second City Television debut on NBC
1986 Argentine ex-President Galtieri sentenced to 12 years
1987 1st Energiya Launch (USSR)
1988 Moscow begins withdrawing its 115,000 troops in Afghánistán
1989 Maxwell House coffee runs ads during "Roe vs Wade" movie despite threat of boycott by right to lifers
1989 Soviet President Gorbachev in Beijing for 1st Sino-Soviet summit in 30 years
1990 "Portrait of Doctor Gachet" by Vincent Van Gogh sold for $825 million
1991 Defense releases docs claiming Noriega was "CIA's man in Panamá"
1991 Edith Cresson becomes France's 1st female premier
1991 Red Sox & White Sox play then slowest 9 inning game (4:11)
1992 Part of Cruger Avenue in Bronx renamed Regis Philbin Avenue
1996 Republican presidential candidate Bob Dole resigns from the Senate to concentrate full-time on his presidential campaign.
1997 ABC News & Starwave Corp launch ABCNEWS.com
1997 STS 84 (Atlantis 19), launches, 6th Shuttle-Mir Mission
2000 United Press International was sold to the parent company of The Washington Times.
2001 A runaway freight train rolled about 70 miles through Ohio with no one aboard before a railroad employee jumped onto the locomotive and brought it to a stop.


Holidays
Note: Some Holidays are only applicable on a given "day of the week"

Austria : Independence Day (1955)
US : I am an American Day (Sunday)
US : Armed Forces Day (Saturday)
US : Peace Officer's Memorial Day
Angel's Camp, Ca. : Jumping Frog Jubilee
National Hamburger Week Ends
National Salvation Army Week Ends
National Small Business Week Ends
National Birds of Prey Month


Religious Observances
Roman Catholic : Commemoration of St Dymphna, patron of the insane
Roman Catholic : Commemoration of Isidore the Farmer, patron of farmers
old Roman Catholic : Feast of St John Baptist de la Salle, confessor


Religious History
1455 A crusade against the Turks and for the capture of Constantinople was proclaimed by Pope Calixtus III.
1686 Rev. Robert Ratcliffe arrived in Boston from England, with orders from King Charles II to establish the Anglican Church in Massachusetts.
1816 Birth of Sylvanus Dryden Phelps, U.S. Baptist clergyman and poet. His several writings included the hymn, "Savior, Thy Dying Love."
1889 At the close of a two-day denominational conference in Cleveland, Ohio, the Epworth League of the Methodist Episcopal Church was organized. It became the foundation of the current United Methodist Youth (UMY) fellowship programs.
1943 German Lutheran theologian and Nazi martyr Dietrich Bonhoeffer wrote in a letter from prison: 'I read the Psalms every day, as I have done for years; I know them and love them more than any other book.'

Source: William D. Blake. ALMANAC OF THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH. Minneapolis: Bethany House, 1987.


Thought for the day :
"Television: A medium - so called because it is neither rare nor well done."


Actual Newspaper Headlines...
Stolen Painting Found by Tree


Why did the Chicken cross the Road...
H. Ross Perot:
No, no, it's not about me, Larry. It's about the chicken


Fun things to do when driving...
Ask people for Grey Poupon.


What The Company Really Means...
"APPLY IN PERSON:"
If you're old, fat or ugly you'll be told the position has been filled.


29 posted on 05/15/2004 8:56:11 AM PDT by Valin (Hating people is like burning down your house to kill a rat)
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To: Valin; All

Got Snippy out of bed and we're about to leave, gonna see if I can finagle a ride on this Stuart from Mr. Greenberg.


Big tanks for the memories Armored vehicles, including one owned by Steve Greenberg of Wilsonville, go on display in Clackamas this weekend

Saturday, May 15, 2004

The next time you're crawling along a clogged rush-hour freeway, think how things might've been different had Steve Greenberg tossed you the keys to his M3A1 Stuart light tank.

Not that it has keys to toss, nor is it, at 14 tons or so, what most of us think of as light. But there's no doubt that a Stuart tank would be the ticket for forging through traffic.

"They'll get up to 35 or 40 miles per hour," Greenberg shouted over the rattle and rumble of its Continental 7-cylinder radial engine. "I've had it on the road once or twice and it's fun -- I've driven it up Broadway a couple of times."

Both times during sanctioned parades, we should quickly note.

Greenberg lives in Wilsonville where he runs a tree service, but his tank is on loan to the Oregon Military Museum at Camp Withycombe in Clackamas. For which his neighbors are probably just as glad, although were I an evildoer, I know that one of my main criteria in choosing future sites of evildoing would be the absence of armored vehicles.

The upside is that Greenberg won't have to bug his buddy with the flatbed to help move the tank out to the museum for Saturday's 7th Annual Living History Day.

The early-WWII era Stuart will line up with a later M4 Sherman tank, an M18 Hellcat tank destroyer and the army's current main battle tank, the M1 Abrams. "They're all bigger than my tank," says Greenberg, "but the M1 dwarfs it -- it weighs about 100,000 pounds more than mine."

Entirely unsuitable for heavy traffic, plus the mileage is atrocious -- three gallons to the mile, which makes the Stuart's mile-and-a-half to the gallon seem like hummingbird sips. But it's not all beer and skittles aboard the Stuart.

"It's a five-speed transmission and it's hard to shift," he says, pointing to a large lever that sprouts near his right shoulder. The later M5A1 Stuart had twin Caddy V-8s and an automatic transmission. Luxury, indeed.

But neither was roomy -- four guys somehow wormed into a space where machinery intrudes on every side. At tune-up time, there are 14 spark plugs to change and one expert advises hoisting out the engine to reach the inner row. And that long crank handle bolted to the back fender is for turning the engine -- all 670 cubic inches of it -- before starting from cold, so oil trapped in the lower cylinders doesn't bend a rod.

But what the heck. Greenberg has his own tank, and how many people can say that? And it arrived on his doorstep mostly correct and complete, which is something that Staff Sgt. Mark Stevens can't say about the Oregon Military Museum's Type 95 Japanese tank.

Stevens led us on a tour of the building where his National Guard crew maintains and restores old military vehicles such as the 1918 Liberty Truck, much of which they built by scaling from photos. The Japanese tank will be a bigger job: for years, it had been a target on a Nevada bombing range and is rusted, twisted and gutted, with its engine in the next room and no turret or upper deck visible.

"We got two of 'em," says Stevens, "One was quite a bit better than the other -- this is the good one."


30 posted on 05/15/2004 9:32:07 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Vengence is mine says the Lord, but I'm busy, so I sent the US Marines.)
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To: Valin
Actual Newspaper Headlines... Stolen Painting Found by Tree

Hercule Pinerow or Hemlock Holmes?

31 posted on 05/15/2004 9:33:38 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Vengence is mine says the Lord, but I'm busy, so I sent the US Marines.)
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To: SAMWolf

IFR=I Follow Railroads


32 posted on 05/15/2004 9:33:38 AM PDT by snopercod (It ain't over until I say it's over.)
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To: SAMWolf
M3A1 Stuart light tank

I WANT/REALLY REALLY REALLY NEED ONE!!
Nothing says move it or lose it like armored support!

Back tonight. The (evil) Bush economy is sooo bad I got mandatory overtime...again.

33 posted on 05/15/2004 9:39:09 AM PDT by Valin (Hating people is like burning down your house to kill a rat)
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To: All
Armed Forces Day

To all who bravely go to war
who hold our flag up high
there are no braver souls then you
who for your country die

The greatest gift you give
your life you lay on the line
for freedom to remain free
there is a cost indeed
it's blood and guts and guns
it's fight onward for freedom
to hold through God's great lands

to keep freedom free
and out of evils hands
we see the horrible inhumanity
of man kind to man

Make no mistake war
the task master hard
from sobbing widows
and mothers' gray -
those who gave their sons away
to fatherless children wondering
why their daddy went away

Their daddy fought for freedom
he gave all he had
his life he did lay on the line
we fly the flag half mast

If the fallen solider could be heard
here's is what he'd say
it was my duty, I did my job
let freedom ring across all lands
and proudly raise our flag.

bentfeather
a/k/a LMH
Copyright © 05/15/04
All Rights Reserved


34 posted on 05/15/2004 9:44:36 AM PDT by Soaring Feather (~The Dragon Flies' Lair~ Poetry and Prose~)
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To: SAMWolf

Good morning to you! Here's another!


35 posted on 05/15/2004 10:15:45 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: snippy_about_it; SAMWolf

B-24..B-17 Comparison
A comparison between the B-24 Liberator and the B-17 Fortress is perhaps inevitable. The Liberator was slightly faster than the Fort, carried a heavier bombload and could carry it farther and higher than the Fort. It was slightly more maneuverable than the Fort, and was much more adaptable to other missions. On the debit side, the Liberator was harder to fly, less stable, and much more difficult to hold in the tight bomber formations that were mandatory in the European theatre of operations. The Liberator was not capable of absorbing nearly the same amount of battle damage that the Fortress could handle. Any sort of solid hit on the wing of a Liberator was generally fatal, the high-aspect ratio Davis wing often collapsing and folding up when hit. In comparison to the B-17, there are relatively few photographs of Liberators returning home with half their wings shot away or with major sections of their tails missing. The Liberator was not very crashworthy, a 'wheels up' landing generally causing the fuselage to split into two or three pieces, resulting in a complete writeoff. In contrast, a Fortress which had undergone a 'wheels-up' landing could often be quickly repaired and returned to service. When ditching at sea, the Liberator's lightly-built bomb bay doors would often immediately collapse upon impact, the interior of the aircraft quickly filling up with water, causing the aircraft to sink rapidly. In spite of the Liberator's defects, Eighth Air Force records show that B-17 operational losses were 15.2 percent as compared with 13.3 percent for the B-24,which meant that a crew had statistically a better chance of surviving the war in a Liberator than in a Fortress.

From a B-24 web forum:

If you look at a B-17,B-29 the a B-24, one will notice the spacing in the planes rivets.
B-17&29 has close rivet patterns.....while the 24's had large spaces between .
The B-24 flexed excessivley due to this...especially the tail section in flight.
The 24 having a smaller lift profile in its wing area needed to fly with its tail stepped higher than the fuselage in flight....this reduced fuel consumption dramatically.

A 24 flying in stepped format ....upon losing step profile would drop back quickly in flight speed......spacing intervals were critical.

36 posted on 05/15/2004 10:25:16 AM PDT by Light Speed
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To: Neil E. Wright
coming next week ...... with pictures!!!!!

Yea!!

37 posted on 05/15/2004 11:36:53 AM PDT by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: snopercod

I used to wonder how it could be so difficult til the Foxhole readers explained it, now I know. :-)


38 posted on 05/15/2004 11:38:11 AM PDT by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: E.G.C.

Good morning EGC.


39 posted on 05/15/2004 11:38:39 AM PDT by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: Godebert

Thanks Godebert. Good to see your father's jacket hanging in the Foxhole again.


40 posted on 05/15/2004 11:39:24 AM PDT by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: The Mayor

Mornin' Mayor.


41 posted on 05/15/2004 11:39:43 AM PDT by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: Iris7

Thanks Iris7. I learn more and more everyday from your posts.


42 posted on 05/15/2004 11:41:15 AM PDT by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: Tax-chick

Good morning Tax-chick. Cool pictures huh Billy?


43 posted on 05/15/2004 11:41:54 AM PDT by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: Valin

We're back and we REALLY, REALLY want a lot of the stuff we saw today! Keep up the OT and you'll be able to afford one.


44 posted on 05/15/2004 11:44:35 AM PDT by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: bentfeather

Beautiful poetry and presentation you've created and left at the Foxhole today for Armed Forces Day. Thank you so much feather for sharing your talent with us.


45 posted on 05/15/2004 11:45:38 AM PDT by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: Light Speed

Thanks Light Speed for the comparison information and the picture is fabulous!


46 posted on 05/15/2004 11:46:42 AM PDT by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: snippy_about_it

Bill's playing "Lego-bots" at Lego.com :-). It's amazing how involved the kids (and their dad) get in these games!

He can read the thread today after supper, while Anoreth is washing up. Then I'm getting the piano out, and we're all going to learn "Men of Harlech." (The kids watched "Zulu" again yesterday!)


47 posted on 05/15/2004 11:47:40 AM PDT by Tax-chick (It's possible that I look exactly like Catherine Zeta-Jones.)
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To: Tax-chick
Zulu is an awesome movie..wish they could have digitally remasterd the DVD version...Zulu in THX!

What the hell do you you mean, cowardly blacks? They died on your side didn't they? And who do you think is coming to wipe out your little command? The grenadier guards!? (Adendorff)

Mr. Chard Sir! Patrol has come back, Zulus have gone, all of 'em. It's a miracle! (Bourne to Chard)

If it's a miracle Colour Sergeant, it's a short chamber Boxer Henry, point 4-5 caliber miracle. (Chard)

And a bayonet Sir! With some guts behind it! (CS Bourne)


The Zulu...Horns of the Buffalo....Jolly deadly old boy!

48 posted on 05/15/2004 12:04:46 PM PDT by Light Speed
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To: Light Speed

We have a non-stereo TV, so the sound doesn't mean to much to us. I like the DVD's because I can have the subtitles on, and read the dialogue while all the kids are chattering!

"Very strong bass section, sir, but they've got no top-tenors!"


49 posted on 05/15/2004 12:08:09 PM PDT by Tax-chick (It's possible that I look exactly like Catherine Zeta-Jones.)
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To: snopercod
IFR=I Follow Railroads

LOL!

50 posted on 05/15/2004 12:15:49 PM PDT by SAMWolf (Vengence is mine says the Lord, but I'm busy, so I sent the US Marines.)
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