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Russia pulls out of its big spy base in Cuba
Guardian/UK ^
| 10/18/01
| Kevin O'Flynn in Moscow
Posted on 10/17/2001 7:43:32 PM PDT by kattracks
Nearly 40 years after troops from the Soviet Union arrived in Cuba, President Putin of Russia has ordered his military to pack up and leave what was once an important spy base there, heralding the end of Moscow's presence on the island. Russia said the move, announced after a stormy meeting at the Russian defence ministry, was down to the cost of keeping the base going. But others see it as a goodwill signal to Washington and President George Bush.
Only 100 miles from Key West in Florida, the Lourdes spy base proved crucial for intelligence during and after the cold war. It is said to be Russia's largest spy base, covering 28 square miles south of Havana and able to spy on the White House and Nasa.
The base has been a big cause of irritation between the US and Russia. Last year, the US House of Representatives passed a bill to try to prevent America from rescheduling Russian's international debt unless Lourdes was shut down.
Through the base, the Kremlin is said to have learned of America's battle plans for the 1990-91 Gulf war. President Putin praised the base and its thousand-plus employees when he visited last December.
The chief of the general staff, Anatoly Kvashnin, said that Lourdes had been vital during the cold war. But priorities had changed, making the base's annual cost of $200m harder to justify.
"Now, the military-political situation has changed and there has been a qualitative leap in military equipment. With that money we can buy and launch 20 communication, intelligence and information satellites, and buy up to 100 sophisticated radars," General Kvashnin said.
Military experts saw the decision as a sign to Washington that Russia is serious about a partnership with the west.
"It's the first real signal of Mr Putin's that he is sincere in his relations with the United States," said Alexander Golts, a military expert with the Moscow newspaper Izvestia.
TOPICS: Breaking News; News/Current Events
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To: HKUSP9mm
Russia is part of Christendom. Alas to some "the West" means those societies which inheritted the struggles between the Papacy and the German Emperor, the Reformation and the Counter-reformation. Russia (and Greece, Serbia, Bulgaria,...) do not share that history. "The West" in a modern global context should mean Christendom. We need to change the mindset of our leaders so it does. This will entail changing sides in the Balkans.
To: gcruse
What is inescapable about propaganda? Good question. For one, after you unmask it, once you expose it, it is too late. The knowledge that it is propaganda is ineffectual to stop it from being said.
But there must be quite a few more stubborn things about propaganda. Those who use it, I suspect, resign themselves to an inevitable concatenation of meandering, imprecision, and obfuscation, not to mention havoc on the respect for others. Good propagandists usually end up in "the ministry" religious, academic, or governmental.
42
posted on
10/17/2001 9:27:06 PM PDT
by
cornelis
To: Cool Guy; Lazamataz
Russia has been in a process of becoming "Americanized" since before the WTC attack. OBL and his fools have only speeded up the process. He's forcing countries to see who their real friends are, and Russia would much rather have a future with the West than with china or the islamists.
43
posted on
10/17/2001 9:52:11 PM PDT
by
Don Joe
To: Cool Guy
We could do the same to them vis-a-vis china. I don't expect either situation to occur. The adults are in charge in both countries, and they both seem to be vested in saving civilization from the barbarians. There are old-line commies in Russia, but their days are winding down, and their influence is waning. The people there do not want to go back to the communist utopia, they don't want to go to a world dominated by chinese imperialism, and they don't want to end up in an islamic republic. They want to go to the Mall of America, and then start opening branches in Russia.
44
posted on
10/17/2001 9:55:37 PM PDT
by
Don Joe
To: Cool Guy
once a commie, always a commie. we wont be defeated by making us mad, we can be defeated by making us complacent and fat, dumb, and happy, and careless. only problem is, putin has forgotten that fat ass bubba clinton and his fat wife are no longer president. oh well, but dont be fooled. we dont need to be lulled into submission. let putin reduce his nukes, and stop opposing missile defense, and then we can CONSIDER taking putin as a POTENTIAL ally.
To: Tribulation Force
"Russia is still communist as far as I can tell."Negative. Russia's means of production were privatized in the early 1990's, leading to a chaotic system of private enterprise. Then, at the turn of the twenty-first century, Putin completed those parts of the reformation that had been left undone, to wit, with his support, legislation allowing for the sale and ownership of land recently cleared the Duma. In addition, the Duma also recently passed a 13% flat tax, moving away from their earlier confiscatory tax rates. On top of all that, Christ the Savior Cathedral now dominates the skyline of Moscow. It'll take time, but they're working towards becoming a normal country.
Of course, with a moniker like "Tribulation Force," you likely hold to a theology which requires Russia to be evil, invade Israel, etc., thus facilitating the Second Coming. Bear in mind, dude, that readings of Ezekiel that equate Russia with "Rosh" are problematic at best, and silly at worst.
To: Lazamataz
I believe we are a lot like the Russians. We've just had too many egos in the way. The Russians are very much like our European friends.
47
posted on
10/17/2001 10:17:46 PM PDT
by
boycott
To: kattracks
Well, good or bad, there's got to be a reason they don't need, or won't be using, the spy base in Cuba now.
48
posted on
10/17/2001 11:09:41 PM PDT
by
vox1138
To: kattracks
Putin also has advised Russians not to enter the United States for the next 3 weeks, as has Gorbachev, for reasons concerning terrorist attacks. Perhaps they know something we don't. Perhaps they don't need to spy on us anymore. Maybe they have insider knowledge about a future attack on the United States and don't want to lose any of their people.
49
posted on
10/18/2001 12:28:40 AM PDT
by
vox1138
To: Lazamataz
If Russia and the United States truly become Allies, then we cannot be stopped.Good point, and with Bush in the White House, I think it's gonna happen.
To: AndrewSshi
legislation allowing for the sale and ownership of land recently cleared the DumaOMG!
NOW Russia will begin to gain wealth. Wealth always flows from private ownership of land.
I have been waiting for this break for the longest time. It has finally happened!
To: gcruse
Thanks for the interesting flag!
52
posted on
10/18/2001 6:27:34 AM PDT
by
JMJ333
To: kattracks
When I lived in KW, I was about 200 yards from OUR little spy base down there. Heck, you can see it from the beach - course, you can't see all the Marines with guns ;). I'm sure that one has not been shut down...
To: Lazamataz
"It now seems more like a civilized-versus-uncivilized world."
Maybe, but don't discount the religious aspect.
54
posted on
10/18/2001 7:31:43 AM PDT
by
Jean B
To: kattracks
I went down through the posts and saw no mention of China working with Cuba the last few years to take over various bases that Russia is leaving. There's been a few articles here for a couple years on this and the large relationship between the PLA and Cuba. A month or so before 911 crates of small arms and large military equipment began to arrive in Cuba from the PLA.
To: Lazamataz
If Russia and the United States truly become AlliesWe did fight "together" in WWII. I'm all for having a good and constantly improving relationship with Russia
56
posted on
10/18/2001 8:22:09 AM PDT
by
1Old Pro
To: Cool Guy
I agree, but irregardless, WWIII will be with China on the other side of the US. They are the only other super power left.
To: Archie Bunker on steroids
Then how do you explain Sweden?
To: Archie Bunker on steroids
In Sweden, they screw their 8 year-old girls and sell the world pictures of this filth. They smoke dope on government-manicured, downtown lawns. They sell marijuana in restaurants. But they have a pretty hot economy. Your theory has merit, but regrettably, has holes, too.
To: Tribulation Force
Imagine 250 million Americans brainwashed for generations. Welcome, Russia. Let's help them back on their feet.
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