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Some Relevant Facts About the JFK Assassination
Newsmax ^ | 11/19/2003 | Phil Brennan

Posted on 11/18/2003 10:38:05 PM PST by Swordmaker

There's an explosive new book that lays out a very detailed – and persuasive – case for the probability that the late President Lyndon Baines Johnson was responsible for the assassination of President John F. Kennedy.

I say persuasive because the author, Barr McClellan, was one of LBJ's top lawyers, and he provides a lot of information hitherto unknown to the general public – much more of which he says is buried in secret documents long withheld from the American people.

"The American public has waited forty years to hear the truth about the JFK assassination," McClellan says. "For government agencies to withhold critical evidence and not cooperate with the [1998 investigation conducted by the Assassination Records Review Board (ARRB)] is a form of obstruction of justice. Under the requirements of the Freedom of Information Act, the public should be granted access to these documents."

According to McClellan and Doug Horne, a former ARRB investigator, hundreds of relevant documents were withheld from the 1998 investigation into the JFK assassination. They believe that these materials are now in the possession of the National Archives, relocated from sealed files previously controlled by the CIA and FBI.

McClellan also asked for a formal review of the evidence in his book, "Blood, Money & Power: How L.B.J. Killed J.F.K.," which establishes a direct connection between LBJ and an individual involved with the assassination and cover-up.

"At this time we need to see what else is missing and what else would be helpful to presenting the entire truth," McClellan continued. "The Senate Judiciary Committee and the Department of Justice could make the request of the National Archives and should do so."

Now, in normal circumstance I would tend to view this latest explanation of who was behind the killing of JFK as exactly that – just another theory among dozens. But the circumstances are not normal. Poll after poll establishes that an overwhelming majority of Americans believe that the official verdict of the Warren Commission is simply not borne out by what little is known publicly about the case.

McClellan's new book adds to those facts and names a second suspect he says was a longtime assassin for Lyndon Johnson, whom he portrays as ... well, as being homicidal whenever he or his many concealed interests were threatened.

Add to that the incredible inconsistencies in the FBI and Secret Service investigations, which reek with the stench of cover-up, and one can't escape the conclusion that if LBJ did nothing else in dealing with the aftermath of the assassination, he sure as hell clamped a lid on any evidence that contradicted the official finding that Lee Harvey Oswald was the lone gunman acting solely on his own initiative.

I report all of this as a prelude to revealing what I know about the matter but have never before written about – in the beginning, because I had a wife and seven children to protect, and since, because I had no reason to revisit the matter.

(Excerpt) Read more at newsmax.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: assasination; conspiracy; jfk; jfkassassination; kennedy; lbj
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To: Ronin
There's nothing to that. It's just a comment from second hand information and the source died a few years ago.

The FBI and the NRA duplicated the shots.

41 posted on 11/19/2003 6:33:01 AM PST by Shooter 2.5 (Don't punch holes in the lifeboat)
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To: ABG(anybody but Gore); Dr. Eckleburg
Bullsh!t.

The source of that died a few years ago. It's interesting that the comments weren't made during the 35 anniversary.

The FBI duplicated the shots with the actual rifle and the NRA was able to duplicate the shots.

Hell, anyone with a few years experience with a rifle can do it.
42 posted on 11/19/2003 6:36:47 AM PST by Shooter 2.5 (Don't punch holes in the lifeboat)
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To: GreatOne
About a minute and a half.

Big deal.

Billy Lovelady said he was on the steps and his co-workers said Lovelady was on the steps.

43 posted on 11/19/2003 6:39:46 AM PST by Shooter 2.5 (Don't punch holes in the lifeboat)
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To: ABG(anybody but Gore); Dr. Eckleburg
I grew up handling guns and I've handled the weapon in question, and I can tell you that, while it MIGHT be possible to get three rounds off in seven seconds, it would definetely be impossible to get all three off with any accuracy.

I don't have any idea where Oswald truly fits in, but I can you this with absolute certainty -- there was more than one gun man.

44 posted on 11/19/2003 6:43:57 AM PST by Lee'sGhost (Crom!)
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To: Shooter 2.5
"Hell, anyone with a few years experience with a rifle can do it."

Bullsh!t! I suggest you give it a try and I'll bet you that if you make three shots in seven seconds you're second and third shots won't hit jack. And if you give ANY credence to the audio tapes, two of those shots were so close together there is NO way they could have been fired with a bolt action.

45 posted on 11/19/2003 6:50:37 AM PST by Lee'sGhost (Crom!)
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To: Lee'sGhost
More Bullsh!t.

The first shot starts the clock.

It's two recoils and two shots in 8.1 seconds.
46 posted on 11/19/2003 6:55:47 AM PST by Shooter 2.5 (Don't punch holes in the lifeboat)
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To: Shooter 2.5
"The first shot starts the clock. "

Well, no duh.

To get your eight seconds the lone-gunman shooting scenario requires that the supposed single assassin completely missed, not just Kennedy, but the entire huge presidential limousine with his FIRST (and you would think, most accurate) and closest shot. This is the only way to expand the alleged lone gunman's firing tie to over 8 seconds.
47 posted on 11/19/2003 7:10:54 AM PST by Lee'sGhost (Crom!)
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To: GreatOne
Mr. LOVELADY - That's on the second floor; so, I started going to the domino room where I generally went in to set down and eat and nobody was there and I happened to look on the outside and Mr. Shelley was standing outside with Miss Sarah Stanton, I believe her name is, and I said, "Well, I'll go out there and talk with them, sit down and eat my lunch out there, set on the steps," so I went out there.
Mr. BALL - You ate your lunch on the steps?
Mr. LOVELADY - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - Who was with you?
Mr. LOVELADY - Bill Shelley and Sarah Stanton, and right behind me
Mr. BALL - What was that last name?
Mr. LOVELADY - Stanton.
Mr. BALL - What is the first name?
Mr. LOVELADY - Bill Shelley.
Mr. BALL - And Stanton's first name?
Mr. LOVELADY - Miss Sarah Stanton.
Mr. BALL - Did you stay on the steps
Mr. LOVELADY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - Were you there when the President's motorcade went by
Mr. LOVELADY - Right.
48 posted on 11/19/2003 7:17:05 AM PST by Shooter 2.5 (Don't punch holes in the lifeboat)
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To: Shooter 2.5
If you are going to hang your hat on what NRA sharpshooters did you might want to know the whole story.

From: http://www.kenrahn.com/JFK/History/WC_Period/Reactions_to_Warren_Report/Reactions_of_left/Unanswered_questions--Cook/Cook_Unanswered_questions.html

Some Unanswered Questions
The Warren Commission Report: I
Fred J. Cook
The Nation, 13 June 1966, pages 705–715

". . . The results must have been jolting, for Frazier, whose time was the fastest, fired two more series of three shots each. The range this time was 25 yards; the purpose, again, to show “how fast the weapon could be fired,” with only secondary attention to accuracy. Under these circumstances, which obviously provided no valid comparison, Frazier got off his first round of three shots in 4.8 seconds; his second round in 4.6 seconds.

Still a third test was performed at 100 yards on the Quantico firing range, with the attention given this time to both accuracy and speed. Parenthetically, it should perhaps be noted that, for exceptionally fast firing, rifle experts prefer the iron sight to the telescopic sight. They explain that the recoil of the rifle sets up vibrations in the cross hairs of the telescopic sight, making it more difficult to line up the target quickly for the next shot. This difficulty, not emphasized by the commission in its report, possibly accounts for the slower firing times registered by the FBI agents on the Quantico range. Again each agent fired a round of three shots. The firing times: 5.9 seconds, 6.2 seconds, 5.6 seconds.

But this was not the end of the complications. Frazier was asked what would have happened if he had been firing at a moving target, and he replied: “It would have slowed down the shooting. It would have lengthened the time to the extent of allowing the cross hairs to pass over the moving target.” Could he estimate how much additional time this might have taken? “Approximately one second,” he replied. With “considerable practice” with the weapon, something there is no indication Oswald had, Frazier thought his firing times might have been reduced—but “4.6 seconds is firing this weapon as fast as the bolt can be operated, I think.” This fastest, bolt-action-only time (a statistic that does not reflect accuracy or the necessity to adjust to a moving target) thus became the commission’s standard in deciding that Oswald could readily have performed the deed attributed to him.

When one turns to the series of tests run under the supervision of Simmons, the Army ballistics expert, the results are no more persuasive. Simmons’ three Master marksmen from the National Rifle Association fired at silhouette targets placed at 175, 240 and 265 feet—the approximated distances at which the commission had deduced the shots might have been fired. Again, it must be emphasized that Simmons’ marksmen were firing at still targets; they did not have to adjust for speed and so use up that precious extra second that Frazier had estimated would be required.

The results:
First expert: 8.25 seconds on his first three-shot series; 7 seconds on the second.
Second expert: 6.75 seconds and 6.45 seconds.
Third expert: 4. 6 seconds and 5.15 seconds.
Only one of the championship marksmen—and he only on one round and firing at still targets—had matched the firing time attributed to Oswald. And even these sharpshooters, with still targets, had trouble matching Oswald’s supposed accuracy with the moving car. All three NRA men hit the first and closest target perfectly. But when they shifted to the second target, their first four shots missed completely. The angle of adjustment was less for the third shot, but still one of the bullets fired in the standard test with the telescopic sight (one marksman fired an extra round with an iron sight) flew wide of the mark.

From this test, it would seem, as the commission itself virtually concluded, that Oswald’s first shot would have found his mark and that, if he missed, he would have missed most probably with his second shot. His third shot then, coming at Zapruder frame 313, would have been the last shot, and the entire action would have been compressed into 100 frames (even less if one concludes the President was first wounded around frame 220) and into 5.5 seconds of time. On this basis, Oswald would have accomplished something beyond the capacity of the fastest trigger fingers the commission could find. None of them fired at a moving target; none of them had to take that extra second Frazier had estimated would be necessary. And still they could not match Oswald’s supposed feat. In all, according to the commission’s own records, fourteen rounds of three shots each were fired; in only two of these rounds (and one of these was designed to test bolt-action speed only) did the fastest trigger fingers approximate the time attributed to Oswald. In the other twelve, they failed—and in most, they were not even close!
49 posted on 11/19/2003 7:23:17 AM PST by Lee'sGhost (Crom!)
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To: Lee'sGhost
And only one person came close to using the time of 8.1 seconds.

I could just as easily say that one person who never shot Oswald's rifle before did it in a little more than half the time of 4.6 seconds.

And Oswald missed one shot out of three.
50 posted on 11/19/2003 7:40:37 AM PST by Shooter 2.5 (Don't punch holes in the lifeboat)
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To: Swordmaker
Thanks for posting this.

Unfortunately, the thoroughgoing confusion generated by the event, the 'investigation' and the (I believe) coverup have made it impossible to get to the entire truth. These threads themselves often rehash misunderstandings and half-truths which have been bouncing around for decades.

The History Channel last night (11/18) aired one of the best reviews of the case I have seen. I actually stayed up to watch it - quite a feat given my age and busy practice. My retired USAF Col. father was quite an expert on the background information a couple of decades ago and came to the conclusion from friends in Texas that 'Landslide Lyndon' was tied into the mess. Cui Bono? was the operative phrase.

I would encourage all Freepers to check out the History Channel presentation as it details the mob connections through Montreal and Marseille. Further, the information extracted from the remaining photographs is very good evidence of the other shooter.

I had never looked at the Zapruder film closely. As a hunter, it is clear to me that Kennedy's head is kicked back by the frontal impact of a slug. The History Channel had all the statements from the Dallas Parkland doctors noting the massive right rear exit wound. Oswald didn't do that.

One important finding here is that conspiracy nuts are right once in a while. On this topic, I am one of them. Sadly, those in the controlling government positions decided that (1) Americans shouldn't know and couldn't handle the truth and (2) Their positions of power were all that mattered.

The more current parallel to this is the treatment by the government and press of the Clinton Arkancides. Exempli gratia: Ken Starr and the treatment of Miquel Estrada relative to the Foster coverup. Saddest of all is the recognition that in some important areas, our government simply cannot be trusted.

All of this bureacratic, megalomanic behavior by the powers-that-be is typical of a system on a slow descent into tyranny.
51 posted on 11/19/2003 7:58:12 AM PST by esopman (Blessings on Freepers Everywhere)
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To: esopman

And I suppose you agree the limo driver did it like that other poster?

52 posted on 11/19/2003 8:06:23 AM PST by Shooter 2.5 (Don't punch holes in the lifeboat)
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To: esopman
Estrada = Rodriguez (I better get another cup of coffee).
53 posted on 11/19/2003 8:08:12 AM PST by esopman (Blessings on Freepers Everywhere)
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To: esopman
Estrada = Rodriguez (I better get another cup of coffee).
54 posted on 11/19/2003 8:08:17 AM PST by esopman (Blessings on Freepers Everywhere)
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To: larry h
....there were also other fingerprints that were never identified.

The History Channel program which is running this week had an interview with someone who was considered very expert in fingerprints.

There was one fingerprint in the TSBD that remained unidentified for many years, until sometime in the 90s when this man worked on it.

He was able to identify it on 34 points, apparently an irrefutable identification, and he said the print belonged to one of LBJ's cronies, who sounds like he was a "fixer" for Johnson.

It was in maybe the final hour of the series, hour 6, which I think will run again tomorrow night.

55 posted on 11/19/2003 8:08:43 AM PST by texasbluebell
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To: esopman

This is the moment of impact. Small hole in, Large hole out.

56 posted on 11/19/2003 8:09:42 AM PST by Shooter 2.5 (Don't punch holes in the lifeboat)
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To: Shooter 2.5
No. Did you see the History Channel series?
57 posted on 11/19/2003 8:10:42 AM PST by esopman (Blessings on Freepers Everywhere)
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To: larry h
That was the name of the man whose print was finally identifies, Wallace. I couldn't remember it in my previous post.
58 posted on 11/19/2003 8:10:47 AM PST by texasbluebell
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To: Swordmaker
Didn't see your post before I posted, but Wallace was the name.
59 posted on 11/19/2003 8:12:11 AM PST by texasbluebell
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To: truth_seeker
Imagine what this country would have gone through if it had been known that a VP of the US had ordered a coup like this.

I don't know what's worse, the truth or the lie.
60 posted on 11/19/2003 8:13:45 AM PST by texasbluebell
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